LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *GUILTY*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Tresir]

Apparently the jury have retired for the day ready to come back fresh in the morning. Verdict tomorrow?

They will also sit Saturday if they have not reached a verdict on Friday. They will not sit on Sundays.

From the Wish TV updating link in post 9143 -

These are the instructions Judge Gull gave -

At 1:15 p.m. jury instructions began.

Judge Gull says the alternate jurors will be in the deliberation room, be engaged but will not participate. She says their decision must be beyond a reasonable doubt. She says the burden is on the state to prove that.

Gull says it is “not beyond all possible doubt.” She says that defendants are not convicted on suspicion. She tells the jury their decision must be unanimous.

She tells them if they are left with two interpretations, they must choose one that sides with innocence. She says they can take into account any bias the witness may have. She said they should believe the witness until they cannot with a good reason.

Gull says nothing she said during the trial should be considered evidence. She says there are no transcripts of the witnesses. She says there is nothing that was not admitted.

Gull tells the jury that during deliberation they must consult with reason. She says bailiffs will be outside the deliberation room. She tells them they cannot leave unless the full group is present. She says there is no mention of sentencing in the paperwork.

Gull says a foreperson will be chosen and will sign the verdict. Gull says the bailiffs took an oath that they will not communicate.

At 1:24 p.m. the jury leaves with instructions.

Judge Gull now lays out expectations for those outside the deliberation room. She says the attorneys need to be within 5 minutes of the court room. She says if the jury needs to see evidence, all attorneys will be invited.

Gull says that Allen will be brought in if the jury requests.

She says the jury will pick a foreperson. She says the jury will not deliberate on Sundays.

She says the jury will deliberate from nine a.m. to four p.m. daily, unless at 4 p.m. they choose to stay and deliberate longer. She says the jury will not deliberate on Sundays.

Court is off the record at 1:27 p.m. on November 7, 2024.

Now we wait.......

 

[GrandmaBear]

Apparently the jury have retired for the day ready to come back fresh in the morning. Verdict tomorrow?

HOPEFULLY!!!!!! Many a jury comes back in about that amount of time. Most will get lunch first but have reached their verdict prior to lunch. It's a fact. Seen it MANY a time. And this one if all together have been able to discuss throughout....

 

[GrandmaBear]

Apparently the jury have retired for the day ready to come back fresh in the morning. Verdict tomorrow?

They will also sit Saturday if they have not reached a verdict on Friday. They will not sit on Sundays.

From the Wish TV updating link in post 9143 -

These are the instructions Judge Gull gave -

At 1:15 p.m. jury instructions began.

Judge Gull says the alternate jurors will be in the deliberation room, be engaged but will not participate. She says their decision must be beyond a reasonable doubt. She says the burden is on the state to prove that.

Gull says it is “not beyond all possible doubt.” She says that defendants are not convicted on suspicion. She tells the jury their decision must be unanimous.

She tells them if they are left with two interpretations, they must choose one that sides with innocence. She says they can take into account any bias the witness may have. She said they should believe the witness until they cannot with a good reason.

Gull says nothing she said during the trial should be considered evidence. She says there are no transcripts of the witnesses. She says there is nothing that was not admitted.

Gull tells the jury that during deliberation they must consult with reason. She says bailiffs will be outside the deliberation room. She tells them they cannot leave unless the full group is present. She says there is no mention of sentencing in the paperwork.

Gull says a foreperson will be chosen and will sign the verdict. Gull says the bailiffs took an oath that they will not communicate.

At 1:24 p.m. the jury leaves with instructions.

Judge Gull now lays out expectations for those outside the deliberation room. She says the attorneys need to be within 5 minutes of the court room. She says if the jury needs to see evidence, all attorneys will be invited.

Gull says that Allen will be brought in if the jury requests.

She says the jury will pick a foreperson. She says the jury will not deliberate on Sundays.

She says the jury will deliberate from nine a.m. to four p.m. daily, unless at 4 p.m. they choose to stay and deliberate longer. She says the jury will not deliberate on Sundays.

Court is off the record at 1:27 p.m. on November 7, 2024.

Now we wait.......

Well they got it fairly early in the day so I think tomorrow is a good possibility. Good to know the Saturday and Sunday thing, I wondered. Based on this update I would stick to my prediction of Friday or Monday.

I kind of differ from the thoughts of some. While I would never want all the awful things they saw and stress of what they have been listening to, it wouldn't bother me to spend on emore weekend in a hotel either IF in my own room with my food paid for just being able to have my own break from the routine of life where I ran the remote, etc. lol. So long as I knew things at home were handled.

I can well see them taking until Monday. They've also been able to talk to family, etc.

I know I'm covering two days but am sticking with tomorrow or Monday with my prediction.

Personally I'd get another weekend of my own bed, work can't call, etc. food delivery and you name it. Go in on Monday, one last go around and talk to see if all still in agreement and get that free lunch and say we have a verdict.

 

[RoundPeg]

I'm gonna go with Saturday. This is hard.

I don’t see any way around THE VAN.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I forget about Saturdays. I was still thinking they wouldn't call all back in on the weekend so I'd add Saturday and maybe drop Monday.

Listening to Tom for awhile right now. He's a lot lighter since leaving there but also very impacted.

I don't see any way around THE VOICE. And THE VAN. And so we have the two Vs, plus the bullet and more...

A good jury will clear the b.s. or unclear stuff and dial down imo.to what cannot be ignored.

I know I cite Tom a lot but he goes on about his confessions to wife and mom and how CLEAR it is he did it and if there is one thing he hopes we all get to hear (others too) but it is these confessions.

They sound like a good jury, not a one has dropped since an alternate very early on, they ask good questions.

We are going to see a gullty verdict and I could agree it could be Friday or Saturday. I was thinking Friday or Monday thinking no court on the weekend...

Of course could be wrong and any jury can surprise but if responsible and going by what they have well, that's what I see happening..

 

[GrandmaBear]

No more live chats from Tom til Sunday UNLESS there is a verdict.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Just going to say I am praying for just and right verdicts, whatever that may be. I have my opinion but one way or another one family or another is going to be seriously affected. All already have been and one way or another it is going to devastate further one side or another.

I mean at the core of it all that is truth.

The man who did this forever affected tons of people and the future of all such forever after.

The gravity I guess is just hitting. I think him guilty and am convinced but regardless, whoever did this affected all of these lives and families and took everything from these girls.

For all we can all talk, it is very solemn really but at times it is hard to remember that with the antics.

Going down for the count soon and just thinking about the families and the girls. Even his family although I see them in a different light. And even him.

Most go on about the P, but where was all the stuff the D talked of like an alibi... Never happened.

Whatever the case, this is horrible, tragic.

One man affected so darned many lives forever after. Whoever that may be. I know who I believe it to be, but regardless, it's awful for all involved.

Thinking of them ALL at this moment before I go hit my pillow.

G'night to all.

 

[Tresir]

Good point about an alibi. He doesn't have one right?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Good point about an alibi. He doesn't have one right?

Nope. They never brought up a single thing to my knowledge of any alibi no matter the time line. I think it might have been said he was home with wife at a certain time but that was just a D atty if I recall either testifying in a question or saying it in opening or some such, can't recall, but nothing more than a blip and never mentioned I don't think again...

I was disgusted in this case how they could "testify" and RA himself too without his ever having to take the stand. I'd say Gull gave them WAY too much leeway but then the P should have been objecting as well to such...

Tom actually said last night it actually seems to many she was agreeing with the D way too much but he felt her overall fair with the ruling on objections that he saw. He said also each morning she was nice and always very nice and happy to see the jury and to the jury and then that was it for a nice mood all day LOL. Kind of interesting. I did watch him last night but missed probably the center of the live, and I caught a LIVE once!!

I don't know what he is going to do when this is over but I'm going to miss it. He said he filmed something like 18 shows on his travels of cooking with strangers but has only gotten to edit like one so far. I guess he wrote a book some time back, some years, and has never been able to edit that, wants to do some comedy type videos and hasn't gotten to that all once he had this interest in Delphi and people wanted him to continue. He's just so unique in that he is NOT a crime YTer.

Actually a BIT sometimes naive to crime and the court process, etc. He has looked into a total of TWO cases thinking he could maybe help solve them lol, don't we all. He now knows how unlikely that will ever be as he realizes we never have access to all of the info that LE does...

Yet for being sometimes I feel a bit naive he has learned the process well and has an intuition imo and the smarts for seeing the facts etc. for what they are and and doesn't fall for the big imaginitve stories or conspiracy thoughts of what maybe happened.

He at NO time ever said he could find RA guilty and said he could not until probably midway through trial. The phone calls with wife and mom really did it. Especially the mom I gather. he did he was lucid, not psychotic, trying to get it across, etc. and hopes we all get to hear them one day.

For me it is the voice, key thing, has been for a long time but all the other facts play in too. The van. The confessions. The bullet. More. For him two, but for him it is THOSE confessions mainly. He says he sees NO reason to think RA was lying and in fact was trying to tell the truth, to no avail. And he kept trying to tell her.

If this guy came home at 5 years old muddy and bloody and told his mother he got in a fight on the playground, I swear his mom would likely say no, dear you did not... It's really kind of pathetic.

This is me talking now, not Tom, don't want anyone thinking he said that last part, I did. I honestly don't know who is more messed up in this family although I don't want to minimize the absolute monster he is, but man, all about fake and denial and enabling. Probably his entire life and then in his marriage as well.

I'm sorry but the sister and daughter? If they had tried to say he molested them both mother would probably have said no, dear , it didn't happen, he did not. Go off and play now...

It's probably beyond mom but I hope the wife takes a good hard look here one day... Not just at Rick and what he did but at herself.

And I hope the jury is seeing all this, they heard the calls...

Well I could go on due to this no time to be UP rather be sleeping stage at 3 30 freaking a.m. and some random thoughts but will stop while they are somewhat cohesive and making sense and before I start rambling further. Lol. Darn cats. Now the other is up and wild. GENERALLY they sleep the hours I do. Sigh.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Good point about an alibi. He doesn't have one right?

Yeah, I'd add that the D claimed a lot of things they were going to show and never did. Unless somehow NO ONE covered such but no way. With the reporting there were two types only, biased towards the D and for the D or maybe basically fair or trying to be at best. Now with nontraditional reporting, like YTers, like Lauren, Tom, etc. both of them CAME to the conclusion at trial (separately,, no connection there) that RA is guilty where they hadn't decided such before trial. To me that speaks volumes. However, I guess traditional media probably should not be saying I decided today RA is guilty... And I'm actually still a bit suspicious of the bias shown "for" RA and the D... I think a lot more leaking went on than we will ever know and they know to be happy they were not lined up and questioned and were saved but feel they better be nice but not overtly so to the D... JUST MY OPINION.

I still have a huge issue with Motta waltzing in bypassing the line and having a seat also. I can't stand the guy. For some very real reasons.

But ya know, he's a fairly popular talking head now but then so are a few others that should be sidelined imo...

Well, I'd sure love to see a verdict today or tomorrow. Of course tomorrow I have to work so today would be better lol.

Well the cat that woke me is now off snoozing away and I am a bit irritated over it. I NEVER get to sleep in and was totally able to do so before that, go back to sleep and wanted to I mean. The other is up now and laying next to me and half snoozing and purring but bothering me too every once in awhile. I hope he decides to drift off after running around acting a bit wild a bit ago and not get on top of my head, etc.

It's dark, I'm tired and want to be sleeping. It is 3:45 for goodness sakes and I NEVER get to sleep in. I also planned for a productive day and it's starting out pretty darned screwed up.

If I could somehow get myself back to tired enough to sleep stage by five or six and could sleep another nice hour or two I'd probably be good but it's highly unlikely now. &^^^%%^&&&&!!

 

[GrandmaBear]

Listening to Hidden True Crime. All probably know not my fave however Lauren did attend and some interesting info. I don't have Tom any longer in attendance.

Up alone probably on here and so just sharing some tidbits.

Like Tom she is giving some detail on other things than just testimony, closings, etc.

Only 17 got in of average public and she said more than once lucky to get in but uses line sittes, etc. Today was far more specific signs on seating than before, these seats for Libby's family, these sets for Abby's, etc. Defense. P. You name it. I'm hoping Motta lost his reserved seat.

She said Abby's mom came in crying or at least was crying before it all, tissues being handed out on the P side. Also said more family attended than ever before, grandparents for both, cousins, etc. for this final day.

A D attorney went to a YTer and handed them a post it note. Lauren says in the Daybell trial there could be no interaction between attorneys and YTers etc. Not allowed. Apparently not the case here. The attorney whose name I've never seen spelled O zhay...? Is how it sounds. Someone can fix that if they like. With the D. That other one. Then went to their area, box, seat and turned around and smiled at the YTer who Lauren did not name... What in the HE77? SERIIOUSLY?

And Motta having a reserved seat I'd add again, with the defense. YES he is a YTer also, most here know that.

Anyhow I'm just starting their show but some interesting tidbits in my opinion.

And when one wants a look of propriety t this trial, and it is so locked down, yet you have all seeing a D atty passing a note to a YTer uhm I'd say that's a PRETTY BAD LOOK especially with the leaks from the D in this case to YTers!!

 

[GrandmaBear]

Oh and tears before starting with the families but RA was fine and smiling and laughing with Baldwin. SMDH. I'd probably go berserk if watching all this. Seriously. And I'm not a family member, I cannot even IMAGINE the toll this b.s. is taking on them.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Okay. Someone help me out here. I have not watched much about the closings. I watched Tom last night but went into it after a portion of it had already been covered.

So Lauren says and I have heard this, starting with the P, NM, that this closing was excellent. I've heard both were although haven't watched much on it yet.

So she's starting to cover his closing and says as Kelsey agreed to drive them to the trails, there is a Snapchat photo in the car? Am I losing it? Lauren seems a bit distracted so maybe she;'s getting it wrong. The only Snapchat photo we know of is Abby on the bridge NO???

I've long wondered if they did not give some indication on line that hey were going and when... So I want to know if Lauren has something mixed up or this is fact??

Then and again, she's covering NM's closing/the P, she says how they went to the trails and never came home. How Derek went to pick them up and when couldn't find them he called Anna, Abby's mom. What? Is Lauren mixing her sh*t up? He called his mom Becky did he not?

She had someone calling or something as she started this part, a bit distracted but still Snapchat in the car, etc...?

Anyone?

I think she's mixing the girls and mom's up, etc. in the one remark but the thing in the car, not so sure of.

I don't want to put false facts here but am also wondering have I forgotten something or never known something? I am pretty sure NOT. A Snapchat thing in the car is HUGE to me and I would not forgotten that. NEVER. Because I'e always thought somehow someone knew they were headed there (meaning RA). It's been a key thing for me even before it was known to be him.

And I know Anna couldn't be reached immediately to be told the girls were missing but Derek called her on first trying to find them to pick them up? I think Lauren has that part mixed up.

But she says specifically Anna Williams, Abby's mom he calls. I'm barely into the darned video so maybe she corrects it later or her hub does who knows.

I'm up at the wrong hours, tired, and these two things threw me immediately. Going to watch a bit more and shall see...

But asking has anyone else ever heard EITHER of these two things?

 

[GrandmaBear]

and now she is mixing up p.m. and a.m. HOWEVER, it's coming across that the P put on one heck of a closing with very detailed timeline on the screen and of each witness, etc.

I'm sure notes are harder than heck to keep up with and do, but the p.m. and a.m. thing is her. And she's probably tired but she had line sittters so not as hard as for some.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Even though she has a few mistakes, it is coming across how powerful the P's closing was. They found at RA's house the BG starter kit. GOOD ONE. And all the while things are going up on the screen throughout this closing. We shall NEVER be able to see this NO THANKS TO YOU GULL. Oh and RA is testifying again shaking his head to this in the P's closing. The man and his wife need to be in head locks. IF they want to testify GET ON THE STAND. PERIOD. This is SO not to be allowed and it has gone on throughout this trial.

On the other hand, if I was a juror, it would turn me against him with them doing this sh*t.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Okay. It';s gotten better and sounds like it was one he77 of a good closing argument.

Thinking I might try to go back to bed for a couple of hours, not sure it will work. Not through all the P coverage of closing yet and undecided too ifI even went to hear the D's. Right tnow, not really. But since I do believe in seeing (like we can--NOT) all of a case I probably will at some point.

G'nite or more like g'morning to all but I'm going to try to go get a couple more hours in to reset this day right hopefully.

 

[Tresir]

Okay. Someone help me out here. I have not watched much about the closings. I watched Tom last night but went into it after a portion of it had already been covered.

So Lauren says and I have heard this, starting with the P, NM, that this closing was excellent. I've heard both were although haven't watched much on it yet.

So she's starting to cover his closing and says as Kelsey agreed to drive them to the trails, there is a Snapchat photo in the car? Am I losing it? Lauren seems a bit distracted so maybe she;'s getting it wrong. The only Snapchat photo we know of is Abby on the bridge NO???

I've long wondered if they did not give some indication on line that hey were going and when... So I want to know if Lauren has something mixed up or this is fact??

Then and again, she's covering NM's closing/the P, she says how they went to the trails and never came home. How Derek went to pick them up and when couldn't find them he called Anna, Abby's mom. What? Is Lauren mixing her sh*t up? He called his mom Becky did he not?

She had someone calling or something as she started this part, a bit distracted but still Snapchat in the car, etc...?

Anyone?

I think she's mixing the girls and mom's up, etc. in the one remark but the thing in the car, not so sure of.

I don't want to put false facts here but am also wondering have I forgotten something or never known something? I am pretty sure NOT. A Snapchat thing in the car is HUGE to me and I would not forgotten that. NEVER. Because I'e always thought somehow someone knew they were headed there (meaning RA). It's been a key thing for me even before it was known to be him.

And I know Anna couldn't be reached immediately to be told the girls were missing but Derek called her on first trying to find them to pick them up? I think Lauren has that part mixed up.

But she says specifically Anna Williams, Abby's mom he calls. I'm barely into the darned video so maybe she corrects it later or her hub does who knows.

I'm up at the wrong hours, tired, and these two things threw me immediately. Going to watch a bit more and shall see...

But asking has anyone else ever heard EITHER of these two things?

I think the SC photos in the car came out in trial. Were mentioned in trial. I think we saw them, well we didn't but the jury did.

I think they tried to call Anna but couldn't get her. I guess they wanted to find out if the girls were with her.

 

[Tresir]

Delphi Murders Trial: Day 5 |'Bridge Guy' sighting, autopsy photos, and digital forensics

Day 5 of the Delphi Murders trial included testimony from a witness who claims to have seen "Bridge Guy" on the day Abby Williams and Libby German went missing.

www.wrtv.com

The final witness called to the stand Wednesday afternoon was Indiana State Police Sgt. Chris Cecil. He says he has examined digital evidence for hundreds of cases during a 20-year law enforcement career.

Cecil volunteered to re-examine Libby’s iPhone 6s. His first written report was in 2019. The phone had been examined several times in 2017 after it was found near the girls' bodies.

Data revealed Abby and Libby each accessed social media accounts on the phone on February 13, 2017.

Data from the Apple Health app said the last time the phone logged movement was at 2:32:39 p.m. on February 13, 2017.

This is a timeline of Libby’s phone interaction from that afternoon.

Feb. 13, 2017
1:38:49 p.m.: phone call to Daddy-o
1:39:08 p.m.: phone was charging
1:39:24 p.m.: Call to Daddy-o ends
1:39:30 p.m.: 2nd interaction with messaging app
1:39:45 p.m.: Snapchat viewing
1:41:44 p.m.: Libby posted picture to Snapchat
1:43:49 p.m.: Posted picture of girls in car to Snapchat
2:05:20 p.m.: Snapchat picture of bridge with no people on it
2:07:20 p.m.: Last time phone was unlocked
2:13:57 p.m.: Video recorded :43 seconds long
2:14:41 p.m.: Libby tried to unlock phone with fingerprint
22:32:26 p.m.: phone likely died
2:33 p.m.: Screen was off
4:06 p.m.: Gets SMS message from Becky Patty (Libby's grandmother) saying, "You need to call me now!!!"
Feb. 14, 2017
4:30 a.m.: 15 to 20 text messages come in at once
No activity after 4:34 a.m.

Bumping this timeline that Ima posted that mentions the car SC photos.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think the SC photos in the car came out in trial. Were mentioned in trial. I think we saw them, well we didn't but the jury did.

I think they tried to call Anna but couldn't get her. I guess they wanted to find out if the girls were with her.

Okay. There was a day or two I got irritated early on and never finished, due to news and saw most ot Tom's but not to the end as I was irritated how much more he had and it was not matching news and so I just took a day or two off from it. So there were what pics of the two or three girls taken in the car and uploaded to Snapchat? Sayitng they were going to the trails?? Because that's everything to me. Don't get me wrong, it doesn't change my opinion on RA's guilt, I simply have ALWAYS felt the perp knew they were going to be there or were going there, and once he was arrested, I felt it even MORE so. I have ALWAYS felt that way. Strongly.

I was Becky later who tried to call Anna as I recall it and not Derek early on at like 3:30 or whenever it was he was to pick them up. And I sounded as if he talked to her although I'd have to relisten to Lauren to be sure but it sounded like it. She did not say he couldn't reach her. He called and talked to her or so it sounded. Becky Patty couldn't reach her later. Tried a couple of times I think. I'd say if Derek already had reached her and Anna had a clue they already couldn't be found, she'd have been reachable and checking and so I think this likely some kind of mix up.

NOT that I guess it really matters overall but if true, we've never heard that and news certainly did not cover it and you seem to be unaware of it. I'm thinking Lauren may have had it wrong but I also thought she had the Snapchat photos wrong and she didn't apparently...

Well I got about 1 hour and 50 minutes more sleep which was about what I was hoping for lol. Longer and I'd have felt too much or the day gone, shorter and I'd have felt Ididn't have enough. The same cat tried pulling the same thing, never done such before. This time I ignored it and went to sleep. The first time I was worried something was wrong with him.

WELL LET'S SEE A VERDICT TODAY!!!

 

[Regina]

Gray Hughes had spoken with Libby's grandparents way back when and he's recently reposted the video.