LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:

State police decline to release any information about the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German​

In the five years since the murders of Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, near the Monon High Bridge in Carroll County, state police have declined to release any information about the murders, including the manner and cause of death.

Retired Indianapolis Metro Police captain Robert Snow, says it may be a good idea to arm people with some knowledge of the killings, with an aim to get more relevant information.

“The problem with not releasing any information at all is that you can’t get the public’s help,” said Snow, who has no first-hand knowledge of the Delphi investigation and can only speak in the abstract about the case.

“The more information the public has, the better chance you’re gonna catch this person. The better the chance somebody’ll come up with a tip to tell you who this person is.”

Snow says it’s always a good practice to hold back some information about a murder investigation to weed out people who, for whatever reason, may falsely confess to the crime. But, in most cases, the more information that’s available, the better the public works for police.

“You don’t know who’s heard what or just knows something that they don’t actually feel is relevant right now until they’ve heard the facts of the case, then they’re like, oh this may be the guy who did that,” said Snow.
 

State police decline to release any information about the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German​

In the five years since the murders of Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, near the Monon High Bridge in Carroll County, state police have declined to release any information about the murders, including the manner and cause of death.

Retired Indianapolis Metro Police captain Robert Snow, says it may be a good idea to arm people with some knowledge of the killings, with an aim to get more relevant information.

“The problem with not releasing any information at all is that you can’t get the public’s help,” said Snow, who has no first-hand knowledge of the Delphi investigation and can only speak in the abstract about the case.

“The more information the public has, the better chance you’re gonna catch this person. The better the chance somebody’ll come up with a tip to tell you who this person is.”

Snow says it’s always a good practice to hold back some information about a murder investigation to weed out people who, for whatever reason, may falsely confess to the crime. But, in most cases, the more information that’s available, the better the public works for police.

“You don’t know who’s heard what or just knows something that they don’t actually feel is relevant right now until they’ve heard the facts of the case, then they’re like, oh this may be the guy who did that,” said Snow.
I entirely and generally agree with this, not just in this case but all. It I am sure is a measured decision by LE to make but in general I think hold a few things back but put the rest out there and see what comes from it, at least at a certain point.

And after a few or several years, honestly, why the heck not? There are murderers they have gotten something like 40 some years later or something and it is impressive solving it then, some cold case and often, they couldn't until then with advances in DNA and such, and that is understandable, BUT that guy was free for most of his life and the public was at risk and who knows in some cases who he hurt in the meantime and nowadays with the "information highway" put out some info and see where people take it or what comes of it. Nowadays it speeds to more people just when they hit "share" etc. Back in the day, even if they had released more, it would not have spread to more corners of the nation or world like it can nowadays so I think they should use it, learn to mine it. Jmo though, no expert and for LE etc., I am sure much goes into deciding what to release and whether to risk it or not. Just as whether to arrest someone on a lesser charge or wait and see so they don't lawyer up if you do before you get the major charge...

What was done to these girls I would say the public is at risk wherever this creep may be. There may be no statute of limitations on murder but if the person is free all their life or even these FIVE years now and more damage is done, or someone else murdered, then well maybe they should have released more... Or do so now.

It is questionable if they have decent DNA or any that is significant and if there was SA but there are things out there anyhow that would seem to indicate at least one of those things. Go ahead and keep that to themselves, I get it BUT I still wonder about other things like the car in the former municipal or county (can't recall offhand) lot, Is it a consideration or did they rule it out? I mean really tell people what you can.

This is of course jmo.
 

State police decline to release any information about the murders of Abby Williams and Libby German​

In the five years since the murders of Abby Williams, 13, and Libby German, 14, near the Monon High Bridge in Carroll County, state police have declined to release any information about the murders, including the manner and cause of death.

Retired Indianapolis Metro Police captain Robert Snow, says it may be a good idea to arm people with some knowledge of the killings, with an aim to get more relevant information.

“The problem with not releasing any information at all is that you can’t get the public’s help,” said Snow, who has no first-hand knowledge of the Delphi investigation and can only speak in the abstract about the case.

“The more information the public has, the better chance you’re gonna catch this person. The better the chance somebody’ll come up with a tip to tell you who this person is.”

Snow says it’s always a good practice to hold back some information about a murder investigation to weed out people who, for whatever reason, may falsely confess to the crime. But, in most cases, the more information that’s available, the better the public works for police.

“You don’t know who’s heard what or just knows something that they don’t actually feel is relevant right now until they’ve heard the facts of the case, then they’re like, oh this may be the guy who did that,” said Snow.

They have more of the guys voice recorded than they've released. If possible they should release more. Someone may pick up on how that person speaks. "Down the hill." is not enough to really hear someone's speech patterns.
 
They have more of the guys voice recorded than they've released. If possible they should release more. Someone may pick up on how that person speaks. "Down the hill." is not enough to really hear someone's speech patterns.
Yeah, I see no reason not to release that all regardless of what it says.

The only thing I can think of and it is unlikely, is it tells exactly who it is in some manner, that they do know who it is and releasing it will tell the offender they know but don't have enough to charge. I just don't see that as likely. You know something like, I'm your bus driver/coach/sheriff/pastor/teacher and I said get down the hill".

In lieu of that which is doubtful, I think it should be released too. Where have they gotten thus far? No arrests and it has been five years.
 
Yeah, I see no reason not to release that all regardless of what it says.

The only thing I can think of and it is unlikely, is it tells exactly who it is in some manner, that they do know who it is and releasing it will tell the offender they know but don't have enough to charge. I just don't see that as likely. You know something like, I'm your bus driver/coach/sheriff/pastor/teacher and I said get down the hill".

In lieu of that which is doubtful, I think it should be released too. Where have they gotten thus far? No arrests and it has been five years.

It may be the only thing he says before the violence starts.
 
It may be the only thing he says before the violence starts.
I think it has been touched on some when the families and cops talk like they have through the years at times but never released. I believe the families, or at least the mother and grandparents of each have heard this part, hasn't that been said?

Maybe it is indicative of the online or catfish thing? Him saying something like "not who you expected?" or they thought they were meeting someone different but meeting for some purpose and he said something that indicated that showing it was an online thing...

They really dismissed the things like Snapchat and texts and apps and such in this case I thought too easily and seemed like no, they ruled that out, and didn't even speculate about anything online, and with hindsight and this guy now they have looked at/are looking at and maybe they didn't want it said so nothing was deleted as they tried to determine through the years what app, who, etc.? This is kind of coming to me as I talk/type this, thinking it out...

It has always bothered me that Libby had supposedly wiped her phone because of issues and so supposedly tracking her through an app that was on it when they were missing, the grandmother couldn't do if I recall... Not just the tracking but what was she trying to wipe off or did a catfisher get her to do that somehow...

The snapchat photo they posted while at the trail...

So maybe, just maybe it was and is all about the online thing, whatever was said in the recording they haven't released, the intentionally making the online possibility one thing they cleared as nope, nothing there or anything like that... While they tried to find a phantom online who knew what he was doing...? He changed his things, etc. but they didn't want to alert him...? Problem is, someone like that would still be harming other girls or trying to meet with them most likely if not arrested...

Just some thoughts....
 
I haven't had the time to post links and much lately or share such so trying to do a bit before I get really busy again. I'd like to see what people think of this. Kline is on here answering questions and more. It is only 15 to 16 minutes. I'm going to withhold my take on it for now to let people watch with their own open mind.

 
I will say I found this very interesting. I backed it up and replayed it here and there. I also walked away and back into the room cold with it on to just see if I thought I was hearing the same guy, etc. I also closed my eyes and just listened to the voices at times... Also the info he gives in the "interview" is interesting. So cops told him he was the last to talk to Libby...

The comments underneath are interesting too...
 
I haven't had the time to post links and much lately or share such so trying to do a bit before I get really busy again. I'd like to see what people think of this. Kline is on here answering questions and more. It is only 15 to 16 minutes. I'm going to withhold my take on it for now to let people watch with their own open mind.



Her extensive comparison was really annoying. It didn't need to go on that long. I could go either way, but I definitely wouldn't rule him out. However, they have his DNA and have said nothing about a match. Does anyone know if he has an alibi for that day?
 
Her extensive comparison was really annoying. It didn't need to go on that long. I could go either way, but I definitely wouldn't rule him out. However, they have his DNA and have said nothing about a match. Does anyone know if he has an alibi for that day?
The entire thing was meant to compare as many ways as possible and as much with different one words and phrases, intonations, etc. In her defense, viewers asked for this to be done and were clamoring for it I think. I don't watch her much but have caught a few of her things.

Personally, I feel it is him--of course I can't say it conclusively and I fear the cops may be in a similar boat. I have long felt and worried that they don't have adequate or great DNA and I'd think this would be back by now and charges brought if they did but I still have some slim hope...

One of the commenters underneath pointed out that Kelsi, Libby's sister, has always come out and strongly said others were not the perp when people would set their eyes on someone and she hasn't said anything like that this time... Not sure it means anything but I noticed that too...

I was as interested in the short interview with him as the voice comparison. Unlike you, I found it riveting. It's not meant to be music for your listening pleasure lol. My mom came home while I was listening to it and once the heater kicked off, I asked her to listen. She didn't know what she was listening for at all. She thought she was supposed to be listening to the words. After a minute or two, I shut it off and said how many people's voices did you hear? She said there was more than one?? So I did my own little test that way. We both agreed the scratchiness of the recording and sounds in it made it a bit harder to be sure but she didn't even know she was listening to two different voices and maybe she wasn't....?

As far as where he was, we'd have to look back on here but I know he allegedly got a job in Vegas real close to the time and is that where they claimed he was or actually I think he fled to Vegas right after their murders which is kind of odd... But it was all a bit hokey as in did he really have a job... Or was this an attempted alibi and getting out of the area at the time? I'm not sure if they know where he was the actual day...

The cops through these years have shown little interest in any one person to our knowledge until now. I think they probably have their guy but I'm not sure how strong of a case they have and I think the efforts here were a decision to risk a bit to try to get more on him from him...

I'm not sure why it took three years for him to get charged with anything... I get it would take some time to go through all of his tech but one would think he could have been charged with something as they went through all the rest.

I wish the questioning of him had been harder and longer but just getting an agreed to interview is a win...
 
The entire thing was meant to compare as many ways as possible and as much with different one words and phrases, intonations, etc. In her defense, viewers asked for this to be done and were clamoring for it I think. I don't watch her much but have caught a few of her things.

Personally, I feel it is him--of course I can't say it conclusively and I fear the cops may be in a similar boat. I have long felt and worried that they don't have adequate or great DNA and I'd think this would be back by now and charges brought if they did but I still have some slim hope...

One of the commenters underneath pointed out that Kelsi, Libby's sister, has always come out and strongly said others were not the perp when people would set their eyes on someone and she hasn't said anything like that this time... Not sure it means anything but I noticed that too...

I was as interested in the short interview with him as the voice comparison. Unlike you, I found it riveting. It's not meant to be music for your listening pleasure lol. My mom came home while I was listening to it and once the heater kicked off, I asked her to listen. She didn't know what she was listening for at all. She thought she was supposed to be listening to the words. After a minute or two, I shut it off and said how many people's voices did you hear? She said there was more than one?? So I did my own little test that way. We both agreed the scratchiness of the recording and sounds in it made it a bit harder to be sure but she didn't even know she was listening to two different voices and maybe she wasn't....?

As far as where he was, we'd have to look back on here but I know he allegedly got a job in Vegas real close to the time and is that where they claimed he was or actually I think he fled to Vegas right after their murders which is kind of odd... But it was all a bit hokey as in did he really have a job... Or was this an attempted alibi and getting out of the area at the time? I'm not sure if they know where he was the actual day...

The cops through these years have shown little interest in any one person to our knowledge until now. I think they probably have their guy but I'm not sure how strong of a case they have and I think the efforts here were a decision to risk a bit to try to get more on him from him...

I'm not sure why it took three years for him to get charged with anything... I get it would take some time to go through all of his tech but one would think he could have been charged with something as they went through all the rest.

I wish the questioning of him had been harder and longer but just getting an agreed to interview is a win...

The voice comparison was way too long for me. It could have been done in a 1/4 of the time. I skipped to the end and I definitely wouldn't rule him out.
 
The voice comparison was way too long for me. It could have been done in a 1/4 of the time. I skipped to the end and I definitely wouldn't rule him out.
I listened to it a few times backed it up here and there and ran it through once but with doing that here and there. I have my decision on the voice and then that was enough but I gave it some play to be sure I wasn't just wanting to think it was him by listening to it all.

After that, I find myself more interested in watching the short interview at the beginning, a few times, and I may again yet. First I watched it, never having heard him speak or see him interviewed and thought nothing of it, I was waiting for the voice. The next time I watched it I saw what seems to be probably somewhat of a loner type, cordial, maybe not the brightest kind of guy but I had to remember this guy has tons of charges on kiddy porn and using a fake profile... Then I watched it with the idea of if he is very smart but acting like just average guy and I watched his facial expressions only...

And I wonder about a few things... I was looking for that take as well I think...

The voice is settled for me. I can't say it conclusively but to me, it is likely him, more than likely. Him, however, is where I center on it now...
 
The voice comparison was way too long for me. It could have been done in a 1/4 of the time. I skipped to the end and I definitely wouldn't rule him out.
Hmmm. I can’t rule him out 100% based on the voice, as there are some similarities for sure. But listening to the full comparison, I get a sense that the BG voice sounds like an older male. It’s slightly lower in tone and a little more scratchy. I know the audio in both cases has a bunch of noise, which is kind of messing with the comparison but I think I have a sense of their voices.

Maybe he had a cold that day? I‘m now worried that the voice is just like the sketches and the video - pick a man at random off the street in Indiana and you’ll find a resemblance.
 
Hmmm. I can’t rule him out 100% based on the voice, as there are some similarities for sure. But listening to the full comparison, I get a sense that the BG voice sounds like an older male. It’s slightly lower in tone and a little more scratchy. I know the audio in both cases has a bunch of noise, which is kind of messing with the comparison but I think I have a sense of their voices.

Maybe he had a cold that day? I‘m now worried that the voice is just like the sketches and the video - pick a man at random off the street in Indiana and you’ll find a resemblance.
I think many agree with you and I can hear where he sounds older too but the scratchiness and recorded sound does make it hard to say. I thought of a cold but another thing I think very possible is if this man smoked or drank heavily and now in jail he can't, his voice would also clear up from any hoarseness etc. I also wonder about distance, wind and more with the recording.
 
But even with the slight hint of maybe sounding older, I found these voices eerily alike and the inflections and tones and more so very similar that I lean towards it being him heavily. The slightly older sounding voice isn't enough for me to dismiss it. Another thought is if he was exerting himself physically may have played into the voice or raspiness...
 
Hmmm. I can’t rule him out 100% based on the voice, as there are some similarities for sure. But listening to the full comparison, I get a sense that the BG voice sounds like an older male. It’s slightly lower in tone and a little more scratchy. I know the audio in both cases has a bunch of noise, which is kind of messing with the comparison but I think I have a sense of their voices.

Maybe he had a cold that day? I‘m now worried that the voice is just like the sketches and the video - pick a man at random off the street in Indiana and you’ll find a resemblance.
My grandson is almost 2. He already walks with his hands in his pockets and has that mosey gait. What a Hoosier thing.
 
My grandson is almost 2. He already walks with his hands in his pockets and has that mosey gait. What a Hoosier thing.
I'd go so far as to say it is even a midwest thing. It is a very common stance and walk to me. So are the jeans and the look. I can't shake the thought these are uniform work jeans the guy is wearing. Now that doesn't mean he was working but I've just known people who get jeans at work for a uniform and they never fit right even though allegedly their size. They are usually loose (maybe intentionally) and often a bit too long and when done for or replaced, the employee can often take the old ones home. The uniform companies tend not to carry the odd sizes like a 33 waist, you'd have to pick 32 or 34 and same with length.

I'm not saying it is a fact, it is just a look, as is the hands in pockets, that is familiar to me.

That is a problem in this case, everyone seems to fit or can be made to fit to a point anyhow...
 

Some suspect info removed from FBI poster on Delphi murders​

A new FBI poster on the Delphi killings removed some of the suspect description.

The flier includes images of Libby German and Abby Williams, along with an image of the suspect from German's phone and a sketch.

What is missing is the height, weight and age of the suspect.

The request to remove the information came from the Indiana State Police. It released the following statement to 13News:

"The Delphi Task Force requested the FBI to remove the physical descriptors listed on the flyer. Investigators do not want to discourage or stop the public from submitting a tip because the person does not specifically meet the height, weight, and age description. Investigators would like the public to focus on the photo of the man on the bridge, the voice recording, and second sketch that was released by law enforcement."

 
I need to decompress from listening to this, so be warned, it’s intense. The Murder Sheet podcast had a couple of episodes in which they read the contents of a leaked interview transcript between KK and two detectives, back in 2020.

The detectives are confronting him with all sorts of data they extracted from his phones, including graphic chat contents and a disturbing litany of search terms. Delphi is mostly discussed in Part 2 of the episode, and they really hit him with all kinds of things including an allegation that he was in communication with Libby the day of the murders.

I don’t know how much of it was deception by the detectives but some of it is just shocking. Again, it’s disturbing at times, so use headphones if you really want to listen and there’s other people around.

 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,258
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom