LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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There's 3 in Supreme Court Filings and ... it's hard to know who's paying that bill. at first I thought RA's old attorneys might be paying the bill.
If you look at it though ... the petitioner is the State of Indiana?

There's the old D - that's 2. Plus Hennessey that's 1.
There's the new D - that's 2.

So 4 lawyers in the circuit ... (but that won't last)
1 lawyer for Baldwin

3 lawyers at the Supreme Court (but who's the client?)
It most definitely came across that they HIRED appellate attorneys for themselves and Allen in something posted that I believe was by you. Private paid. But then one knows how news can get things wrong, unsure where it came from and my life doesn't allow me the luxury of going back to see or even keeping up.

Now you think or it says State of IN is the petitioner? Can this get any more confusing?

Maybe it is because the attorneys are State paid lol so they are employed by the State so State represents them in this. State hired 'em, and State fired 'em...Not saying this is the reason but I wouldn't doubt it in this messed up mess and our system. I'd also be careful and doubt news is even getting it right in all cases if WE can't figure it out...
 
Ugh I wonder if Gull will recuse herself tomorrow?

I can't see how she lets Baldwin and Rozzi back in as RA's attorneys after kicking them out of her courtroom for gross negligence ... and keep a straight face when they return.

The gross negligence doesn't go away just b/c the State's not paying them.
When one clears away the blizzard, largely as usual created by defense in response to a problem, it all still comes back to their doorstep. Sad part is though in some respects it works/ed... And it shouldn't. But just due to all of it, something is going to have to be done and it should not be that way. Imo. And not sure it would solve it either. Let's just say Gull recuses or is taken off and the defense team put back on or even one of them, the same kinds of antics are once again going to come into play the minute they are needed by the defense.

I have a lot of other thoughts on Gull, her response if there is one (but she is likely limited in that respect to giving one as judge) but just don't have the time, energy or mindset right now to go down those avenues...

Behind all of this drama are two dead girls but you'd almost never know it.

There also sits a man, RA. It's all about him or getting him off. Or issss it....

Is he a man in fear, wasting away, just this timid mouse with not much for smarts.... Or he is a ruthless, cunning, calculated killer who is following what is going on here very well and loving every minute of it and playing a game himself... Seriously. I mean per the defense team, he wants to keep the defense team. Per the defense team, HE filed some of these things (so to speak)...I'm sure they had to explain all, the options and what doing so would mean right... And lo and behold and of course he wants to go the route they are going naturally... I don't really have a point except for in the blizzard, sight is being lost and perhaps things aren't being looked at that should be... You create a blizzard when you want to divert attention from something else... The blizzards come from the defense... Regardless of Gull, imperfect, bad, whatever opinion one holds, the blizzards are defense blizzards that are having to be handled or reacted to.

Who IS Allen.. A man who allegedly killed two children heinously in cold blood after playing his games with them and plotted it. Just this quiet pharm tech uh huh. I don't buy any of his sh*t. Maybe I am wrong, because all one can do is guess but it isn't unusual with SK types that no clue as to what really goes on in their heads as they have another persona, that of some normal man, living often a normal dull life or just a stereotypical one...

I am wandering so I will stop but I am just trying to say that underneath all the b.s. is what matters here... Why is the defense pulling such sh*t allegedly for this "meek" man.... Ask A & L if he is meek and powerless... IF of course he is the killer...

Of course it isn't likely FOR him... Orrrr is it?
 
These emails back and forth between the attnys and the judge about the discovery of the LEAK are really bothering me.

I mean, I now have Gull's email address and I can just send her an email right now and ask her what she's gonna do tomorrow when Rozzi and Baldwin show up.

(I'll be sure let y'all know what she says.)

Also I have Nick McL's cell phone. whoopee!!

jkjkjkjkjkjk

but for realzies, how are they not redacting this personal info? :shocked:
It will be the next thing. There will be a big to do about people from SM contacting them with emails, phone calls, etc.

Last night I was watching something where Nick Mc's phone number came onto the screen more than once as he scrolled the document and the other cohost was telling him get that off the screen and then it happened again and I honestly wasn't buying it was accidental, new show to me, and just not sure I bought the accidental part BUT they left this sh*t in there. Yah. Maybe now gull or Nick can step down or off due to threats like the first judge who wanted nothing to do with this case.... What did he really know of what was to come...

At minimum a lot of politics and egos would maybe explain some of this but it seems like far more than that...

I'd suggests no one email or call because just watch that is going to be the next thing...
 
It most definitely came across that they HIRED appellate attorneys for themselves and Allen in something posted that I believe was by you. Private paid. But then one knows how news can get things wrong, unsure where it came from and my life doesn't allow me the luxury of going back to see or even keeping up.

Now you think or it says State of IN is the petitioner? Can this get any more confusing?

Maybe it is because the attorneys are State paid lol so they are employed by the State so State represents them in this. State hired 'em, and State fired 'em...Not saying this is the reason but I wouldn't doubt it in this messed up mess and our system. I'd also be careful and doubt news is even getting it right in all cases if WE can't figure it out...
It could make sense if State was paying them then they are still paying them, while they pursue the appeal. Or maybe they are just paying the appeal attorney as they are no longer working on the case. It is a mess any way you look at it.
 
Yes it is pretty big but has an index on the first page or so, so you can see what page you need to page down to. That's what I did to find the leaker bit.

And Olenna provided the page number too.
enna
Yes, but one has to download it first to do that no?
 
It will be the next thing. There will be a big to do about people from SM contacting them with emails, phone calls, etc.

Last night I was watching something where Nick Mc's phone number came onto the screen more than once as he scrolled the document and the other cohost was telling him get that off the screen and then it happened again and I honestly wasn't buying it was accidental, new show to me, and just not sure I bought the accidental part BUT they left this sh*t in there. Yah. Maybe now gull or Nick can step down or off due to threats like the first judge who wanted nothing to do with this case.... What did he really know of what was to come...

At minimum a lot of politics and egos would maybe explain some of this but it seems like far more than that...

I'd suggests no one email or call because just watch that is going to be the next thing...
Press will certainly contact them. There is also loads of stuff in there about the crime scene and how it supposedly went down and how he dressed A without getting blood on the clothes. I couldn't read much of that TBH.

Press is going to have a field day with this as are the youtubers. It's a sh!tshow and a complete disgrace for everything to come out like this. I don't know what they are playing at. How will RA get a fair trial and an untainted jury now?
 
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It could make sense if State was paying them then they are still paying them, while they pursue the appeal. Or maybe they are just paying the appeal attorney as they are no longer working on the case. It is a mess any way you look at it.
I'd agree it is a mess.

I don't think the State would pay them to pursue an appeal on their own behalf but by including Allen who knows. Yes, it is very muddy/cloudy/unclear. The first thing ever posted about it said I believe that the defense attorneys "hired" appellate attorneys which I took to mean private paid but who the heck knows now...
 
I'd agree it is a mess.

I don't think the State would pay them to pursue an appeal on their own behalf but by including Allen who knows. Yes, it is very muddy/cloudy/unclear. The first thing ever posted about it said I believe that the defense attorneys "hired" appellate attorneys which I took to mean private paid but who the heck knows now...
Well if they win the appeal I presume they will be paid and get compensation even if they are not still on the payroll.
 
Press will certainly contact them. There is also loads of stuff in there about the crime scene and how it went down and how he dressed A without getting blood on the clothes. I couldn't read much of that.
I had seen and heard the part about A before re the O filing. That is why I asked you about why you assumed he dressed her, I figured you took it from what defense said/claimed.

I haven't looked at this. This is just a record of all the things Gull sealed, etc. and all on the record right? Some of which has already been seen?
 
You are not downloading it but just accessing the Google drive it is on, I think that's how it worked for me anyway. I guess it is possible to copy it on to your own drive.
That's what I needed to know. Thanks. So if I get a chance I can go look at the page pinpointed etc. without downloading to look. Little time and thought I saw something about HUGE pdf etc. I think I heard last night anyhow on a show what this may contain but now I can check but won't be this morn if ever, behind on a few other cases too.
 
Leak source was former employee of Baldwin who continued to go in and out of Baldwin's offices for a bit and knew of the case and had the opportunity to take photos of crime scene photos and secretly did so. bad bad Westerman.

MS told ISP first. ISP told Prosecutor. Prosecutor knew first.
MS called Defense a day later. (Who knows why? They decided they should, I guess) And that must be how Defense found out.
So is that guy being arrested and prosecuted? Contempt of court at the very least.
 
That's what I needed to know. Thanks. So if I get a chance I can go look at the page pinpointed etc. without downloading to look. Little time and thought I saw something about HUGE pdf etc. I think I heard last night anyhow on a show what this may contain but now I can check but won't be this morn if ever, behind on a few other cases too.
Yes it is about 250 pages IIRC.
 
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Murder Sheet told both didn't they? Maybe pros before defense? And not only that, others had gotten the photos. Had I received them I'd be calling the pros or the cops, not the defense and don't doubt others would do/feel the same. That's what you do to report someone.

I want to know how the atty. knows his guy took screen shots in AUGUST, when he knew this and WHO told him this.

I watched a show last night that said one of the last things suicider said was so long as he came clean he'd be fine. The guy was having a hard time believing with that remark he would then commit suicide. Also thinks it needs to be explained and not just accepted to be suicide and I'd agree. Single gun shot wound apparently. However, a murderer can do the same, that doesn't make it a suicide. It needs to be explained how they are certain, IF they even are...

I don't see where you can think it is the fault of the prosecution when it has been admitted to. They were investigating as they'd been told of the leak.

As far as leaving him to commit suicide, honestly, did they even have anything to charge him with at that point? This guy wasn't under any court order and was not the one who took the screen shots. I would imagine they were going "up" the chain with him to where they originated from and how he got them.

I heard his name last night (and promptly forgot it lol), it is no secret.
Yes, they could have charged him with contempt of court at the very least. It wasn't a big chain or anything, just two of them - the one who stole the stuff and the one who leaked it. 6 years of keeping the info safe now it all leaks just before trial from the defence office. Very convenient.
 
Well if they win the appeal I presume they will be paid and get compensation even if they are not still on the payroll.
No clue and probably the least of the issues/questions. Yes if it is in relation to the case of Allen and entirely to his representation they were hired for. A bit muddy here again and they contributed to this all with their own actions or at least gross negligence and again were warned prior. Not sure that the State would have to pay for that, only as it relates to Allen perhaps but again... See there is not even a clear way to separate it out. Anyhow, who knows. And to muddy it further they could win on one thing and not another and also not be reimbursed, etc. I DO NOT KNOW is what I am saying lol.
 
No clue and probably the least of the issues/questions. Yes if it is in relation to the case of Allen and entirely to his representation they were hired for. A bit muddy here again and they contributed to this all with their own actions or at least gross negligence and again were warned prior. Not sure that the State would have to pay for that, only as it relates to Allen perhaps but again... See there is not even a clear way to separate it out. Anyhow, who knows. And to muddy it further they could win on one thing and not another and also not be reimbursed, etc. I DO NOT KNOW is what I am saying lol.
I just looked again at the court stuff Olenna posted and the new guys hired are described as "Contract Public Defenders", so am guessing that's what Baldwin and Rozzi were too. So there will be a contract that they can sue under if necessary.
 
So is that guy being arrested and prosecuted? Contempt of court at the very least.
Are you talking of the one who took the screen shots? How?

Maybe for hacking and theft of confidential sh*t from an attorney's office that Baldwin knowingly gave him access to (the office). He isn't under any court order I don't think. BUT if he formerly worked here, he may well have signed something re attorney/client privilege and of sharing NOTHING BUT he wasn't working there. I just LOVE this FORMER employee stuff but still having access, get real. (Not you, them). I think he was on the payroll all right... Just not on the books, official payroll... IF he did this on his own, then we are to believe Baldwin was clueless, warned before but still left him with such free access that he turned on a computer and logged in with a PW OR if there wasn't one, Baldwin was still then not securing the info. Baldwin should be charged and prosecuted and if this guy saves him and says he did this all on his own without B's knowledge, then B still needs to pay for and explain the lack of security and allowing someone in and out around confidential matter.

We all know the logical thing here. He was doing what he was TOLD to do. And then going another step away by having a lower rung of this ladder disperse them.
 
Yes, they could have charged him with contempt of court at the very least. It wasn't a big chain or anything, just two of them - the one who stole the stuff and the one who leaked it. 6 years of keeping the info safe now it all leaks just before trial from the defence office. Very convenient.
Not if it starts with Baldwin, that's three steps of a chain. And that's without assuming someone didn't get Baldwin to do this as well... More unlikely but no there's a chain, the lowest of which were the recipients who likely weren't involved but became involved in it all like MS and tons of others the way it sounds. They just all received" the gift the top hoped would be published...
 
I just looked again at the court stuff Olenna posted and the new guys hired are described as "Contract Public Defenders", so am guessing that's what Baldwin and Rozzi were too. So there will be a contract that they can sue under if necessary.
I agree they are public defenders which is what I've said but was corrected even though I didn't have it wrong, however, that doesn't matter. Either way they are state paid.

I'm not sure where you are going with the suing thing. I am sure they have been and will be paid for their work til dismissal. I also imagine that contract requires ethical behavior and doesn't guarantee continued "employment" no matter the circumstances.

But anyone can try to sue over and under anything I guess.
 

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