LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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He is the one who took the pictures of the crime scene photos while in Baldwin's conference room.
Allegedly in the conference room, again who is the source of that? Baldwin? MW himself? I don't think there is one bit of proof of that. I'm sure that is being used so they can try to claim their offices and all else are locked for damage control/lies. Imo or something on that order. By the way I have been in more than one conference room in the past couple of years... I SAT in one one day WAITING for my attorney just as one example, we had been in it going over my case and under a tight deadline and he had another call and something urgent to take care of... I was alone a long time. And there was not another case file than mine, nor anything I could have accessed accidentally because attorneys DO NOT DO that and no there was no computer that was on or even present. There was a screen and connections for WHEN they bring them in and need them. Probably a server. But NOTHING to connect to any of it. I"ve read myself and listened to a bit the last day or so on Baldwin and glanced at his website for some minutes. He is no naive attorney. No one can tell me he doesn't know about security and confidentiality.

I also watched a fair portion of an older one of MS this a.m. where they were going to look into the players in the Delphi case, starting with Baldiwin, past trials, talk to people, wins, what they'd expect him to do in this case, etc. and I find it very interesting they predicted going after the warrant and the gun evidence supposedly based on another case which was not at all similar but the gun or bullet or whatever evidence was... They pointed out they knew nothing of what was in this warrant in this case, etc. or if he would have anything to go after and I do not know that I believed them... Anyhow that would be another topic but anyhow....

Not directing my response at you just at the situation and anything that comes from MW or Baldwin is suspect to me and not fact.

There is a lot I'd like to know (not that I'd buy it necessarily anyhow) but did a number of photos just happen to be one one screen and he scrolled through them and photographed each one? Or did he go looking for them on an office computer and found them and had easy access, n security at all? Who left them up if they were up? And why were they viewing them and when? Etc., etc., etc, etc.

Honestly as far as we know it is only allegedly MW who passed them right...? Of his own free will and idea? Because he thought Allen innocent and this would help Allen HOW? Or was there another reason?

We don't know sh*t about this, we know the perpetrator's version and only a small part of that. One guy who likely could have blown that version to smithereens is dead...
 
I think with some comments about taking things back to where the Defense first messed up maybe take it way back. No one is unblemished in this mess. If RA had actually been housed in a county jail like he should have been, the guards with Odinist patches wouldn't have been guarding him to start with. There is zero reason for a defendant without a guilty verdict and sentence to be put in solitary in a state prison.
Did the defense appeal the judge's order on that one to the higher court? I mean back when? Why not I wonder... If they could have and didn't, then it doesn't really play into the current stuff as far as what has blown this into one defense caused recent mess. To my knowledge they can appeal any judge's decision or order during a criminal process.

And did you see Allen in the recent hearing? He looked well, he was with it, clearly showing he was a normal human, etc. I don't think any killer is or can be a normal human but the whole other act was gone and his look but then I suppose you want to seem okay, lucid, etc. when need be. He wasn't gaunt, etc. and do you know what I saw? Bridge Guy.

I find it interesting the Os, Allen and others in and around this case were all in the Guards... If one wanted to connect people and put them together with no evidence as the old defense did in the O thing, I'd say some could connect some dots with the Guard thing if that is required and it would be less out there than their story... I mean military of course, not O prison guards... Who I gather per Tresir I think it was were also National Guard or reserve.... And MW too right? Pretty interesting... Since if Os did this, no one still has removed Allen from being there along with 'them" or being one of them...

Not trying to argue or anything, just another perspective. I'd also like to know as I don't recall and don't want anyone to do the work for me but if anyone knows off the top of their head, was it Gull who appointed B and R or was it the first judge who quickly recused himself...? He was there for a little bit and generally appointing counsel for defendant's is pretty quick although as i recall RA first thought he could afford a private attorney and then said he could not. I could sidetrack on why that was, wife was realizing she/they would lost everything...

But again I sidetrack. Just curious which judge appointed these two...
 
Too bad you can't listen to MW's 1 hr 20 min interview w/ MS and hear what an evil genius he truly is. :sleep:
I sense this is sarcastic or tongue in cheek judging my your emoji...

So he is a dullard, a talker and full of it? Guessing truly just based on the little i've read here and still catching up.

It doesn't take an evil genius to write the Franks motion or share case pictures if that is what you mean. The consensus by almost all talking heads after that motion or memo came out was that it was unprofessional and seemed as if it could have been written by someone in high school.

Maybe I'm reading what you mean wrong but the emoji for sure means be prepared to be bored to sleep right...?

Will five minutes of him give me a good picture of what he is? He is the one that writes things too long for the upfiling on the court's record by parties (only ones who can do it, at least in our state, their attorneys only or a pro se defendant, etc.). I took that as a joke but it also plays right into how long the Franks memo was if you say he does such/on and on.

I very much am glad I don't do such and am concise and to the point... Lol.

BUT back to him....
 
It appears this ain't the Judge's first rodeo.
Below see the last time, 2018, the replacement Defense moved to have their client's revocation of counsel by Judge Gull reviewed. But they opted to simply make the objection record and they didn't pursue to the interlocutory review.


Private attorneys in death penalty cases create dilemmas for judges, public defenders - The Indiana Lawyer


An appeal withdrawn
Defense attorneys say private counsel representing a death penalty defendant is rare in Indiana. Public defenders typically defend individuals charged with capital crimes because of the cost of the case coupled with the demands of preparing for trial.
Until the beginning of 2018, the state had two death penalty cases represented by private counsel who needed to draw upon public funds to support their defenses. In addition to Turner, Fort Wayne attorney Nikos Nakos of Nakos & Adams was defending Marcus Dansby, who is accused of stabbing and shooting to death three adults and an unborn child.

landis-larry-mug

Landis
Larry Landis, executive director of the Indiana Public Defender Council, said he empathizes with the dilemma judges confront in these cases. The bench has to weigh the defendant’s right to choose counsel against the ability of the attorney to provide representation.

The Fort Wayne case, State of Indiana V. Marcus D. Dansby, 02D06-1609-MR-000010, could have provided some guidance for resolving that dilemma. Allen Superior Judge Frances Gull removed Nakos at the beginning of the year and appointed two public defenders, Michelle Kraus and Robert Gevers II.

Kraus said Gull carefully laid out her reasons for replacing Nakos. The judge made a record, citing caselaw and the standards from the American Bar Association, as she detailed what private counsel had done and not done on the Dansby case.

Nakos disputed that he was not adequately representing his client. He claimed he had hired a mitigation expert but Gull, after she signed the order allowing the expense, wanted more documentation showing the expert was qualified. That individual got angry and quit.

When Nakos found another, he said Gull referred to his submission to the court as containing “stupid (stuff).” In January 2018, he filed a motion for the judge to recuse herself and soon after, Gull removed him from the case.

Once the public defenders were appointed, they filed a petition for an interlocutory appeal. Kraus explained the central question under the Sixth Amendment was whether the defendant’s right to an attorney of his own choice trumps his right to effective counsel. Although the trial court granted the petition, the public defenders decided not to proceed to the Indiana Supreme Court and withdrew the appeal.

Kraus said an appeal would have likely stayed the case for several months and the defendant wanted to keep things moving forward. The defense, she said, believes they have preserved the issue and, if needed after the trial, can revive the issue.

Although private counsel in death penalty cases is rare, Landis would still like to see the Indiana Supreme Court address the Sixth Amendment issue.

“At some point that dilemma needs to get resolved and it may ultimately get resolved in the Fort Wayne case if there is a trial and conviction,” he said. “If the verdict is appealed, that will be one of the appellate issues.”
 
RA , defendant in murders.

RF, leaker who committed suicide 11th Oct.

MW, thief who worked for AB, stole pics from AB and passed them to RF as a minimum.

AB, attorney for the accused RA

MS, Podcasters Murder Sheet who reported the leak to LE.

BH, PW etc Odinists in Frank's memo.

KK, catfished the girls via Anthony Shots profile.
:thankyou:
 
I sense this is sarcastic or tongue in cheek judging my your emoji...

So he is a dullard, a talker and full of it? Guessing truly just based on the little i've read here and still catching up.

It doesn't take an evil genius to write the Franks motion or share case pictures if that is what you mean. The consensus by almost all talking heads after that motion or memo came out was that it was unprofessional and seemed as if it could have been written by someone in high school.

Maybe I'm reading what you mean wrong but the emoji for sure means be prepared to be bored to sleep right...?

Will five minutes of him give me a good picture of what he is? He is the one that writes things too long for the upfiling on the court's record by parties (only ones who can do it, at least in our state, their attorneys only or a pro se defendant, etc.). I took that as a joke but it also plays right into how long the Franks memo was if you say he does such/on and on.

I very much am glad I don't do such and am concise and to the point... Lol.

BUT back to him....

RED BBM

I was gonna say ... oh ... nevermind.
Anyway, Mitch W is a ... social butterfly. He couldn't focus long enough to write a thank you note. :cowcouch:
 
My hangup over the state prison isn't just about his mental health. It's about the fact the court is skewing opinion towards him by keeping him in a state prison in solitary. It isn't like he's a flight risk, he didn't budge for almost 6 years. He has no violent offender history. He STILL is being paraded in and out of the courtroom in jail attire and shackled. That's just pouring gas on the fire of his appeal in my opinion.
In some areas, a traffic citation that is enough to jail you overnight sends you into the courtroom the next day or Monday in full orange and shackles. That is not unusual. And I don't even mean or OWI/DUI, any that is a second, fine not paid, overzealous cops and county and safety practices, this is what they do. And yes, UNPROVEN.

Did you watch Murdaugh at all? Daybell? Stauch? All in prison garb, etc. Not yet convicted. Normal clothes for trial. Or they request it and fight it. In the Kouri Richins trial from day one almost her attorney asked for and argued for her to be able to wear street attire and they got it. Did Baldwin and Rozzi? Why would he budge for six years, he was not under suspicion nor worried about anything except MAYBE that someone might recognize his voice or his appearance, etc.

It was Carroll County at that time where they did not think he would be safe which makes sense. They found a safe alternative with enough resources. Anything about other counties, etc. came after that. Everything in the beginning was more whining about how far the attorneys had to travel and how much of an issue this was for them and also his family, etc. and general complaints about it all. NOTHING major came until AFTER he confessed...

And you know what, go ahead and move him and watch what happens. Wait and watch... But let's not make it somewhere the defense wants, was it Cass I think? Nor Carroll County either who could not do it and did not want it... You'd think if all so corrupt they WOULD have wanted it... RA under control by them in their own jail...

I'd ask again DID the Old D appeal this to a higher court in all this time? Why not....
 
In some areas, a traffic citation that is enough to jail you overnight sends you into the courtroom the next day or Monday in full orange and shackles. That is not unusual. And I don't even mean or OWI/DUI, any that is a second, fine not paid, overzealous cops and county and safety practices, this is what they do. And yes, UNPROVEN.

Did you watch Murdaugh at all? Daybell? Stauch? All in prison garb, etc. Not yet convicted. Normal clothes for trial. Or they request it and fight it. In the Kouri Richins trial from day one almost her attorney asked for and argued for her to be able to wear street attire and they got it. Did Baldwin and Rozzi? Why would he budge for six years, he was not under suspicion nor worried about anything except MAYBE that someone might recognize his voice or his appearance, etc.

It was Carroll County at that time where they did not think he would be safe which makes sense. They found a safe alternative with enough resources. Anything about other counties, etc. came after that. Everything in the beginning was more whining about how far the attorneys had to travel and how much of an issue this was for them and also his family, etc. and general complaints about it all. NOTHING major came until AFTER he confessed...

And you know what, go ahead and move him and watch what happens. Wait and watch... But let's not make it somewhere the defense wants, was it Cass I think? Nor Carroll County either who could not do it and did not want it... You'd think if all so corrupt they WOULD have wanted it... RA under control by them in their own jail...

I'd ask again DID the Old D appeal this to a higher court in all this time? Why not....
This will probably come as a shock to you, but yeah I've watched trials lol.

Honestly, I'm not concerned with what other areas do with their traffic violations. I'm concerned about a fair trial and justice for Abby and Libby. I'm actually concerned about a conviction thats arrived at while respecting the constitution and Indiana trial rules. That's why I do all that "dry reading".
 
"You'd think if all so corrupt they WOULD have wanted it...
RA under control by them in their own jail..."
Huh? Did you miss the revelation the one of the sheriff's went
out to the prison, and may have tried to talk to the defendant
(without his lawyers present, and they didn't even find out about
this until much later after it happened), also, maybe the sheriff
didn't go to the prison to talk to the defendant - but rather to talk
to those in charge at the prison to discuss how he wanted the
defendant to be 'treated'....
 
Really? I just got it out of the closet and used it on you quite easily. I guess your security is quite lax then. But then we know that, I am talking to a dodo who constantly let Blue escape his clutches who I might also add is not HIS horse!

14 years huh? Yet lately at least I am constantly seeing it in the hands of others as if it belongs to the people of this site. See below... You are the yellow naked without pants guy...

:chair:
------> Cuz :offtobed:
 
"You'd think if all so corrupt they WOULD have wanted it...
RA under control by them in their own jail..."
Huh? Did you miss the revelation the one of the sheriff's went
out to the prison, and may have tried to talk to the defendant
(without his lawyers present, and they didn't even find out about
this until much later after it happened), also, maybe the sheriff
didn't go to the prison to talk to the defendant - but rather to talk
to those in charge at the prison to discuss how he wanted the
defendant to be 'treated'....
Nothing would surprise me in this case. Are you talking Sheriff of Carroll County? Do you have a link?
 
My hangup over the state prison isn't just about his mental health. It's about the fact the court is skewing opinion towards him by keeping him in a state prison in solitary. It isn't like he's a flight risk, he didn't budge for almost 6 years. He has no violent offender history. He STILL is being paraded in and out of the courtroom in jail attire and shackled. That's just pouring gas on the fire of his appeal in my opinion.
They did that with RL and do it with everyone. (Eg the orange and shackles). He's in solitary for his own protection as he is an accused child killer. I saw the recent video of him. (RA). He sure looks like BG in that IMO.
 
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Allegedly in the conference room, again who is the source of that? Baldwin? MW himself? I don't think there is one bit of proof of that. I'm sure that is being used so they can try to claim their offices and all else are locked for damage control/lies. Imo or something on that order. By the way I have been in more than one conference room in the past couple of years... I SAT in one one day WAITING for my attorney just as one example, we had been in it going over my case and under a tight deadline and he had another call and something urgent to take care of... I was alone a long time. And there was not another case file than mine, nor anything I could have accessed accidentally because attorneys DO NOT DO that and no there was no computer that was on or even present. There was a screen and connections for WHEN they bring them in and need them. Probably a server. But NOTHING to connect to any of it. I"ve read myself and listened to a bit the last day or so on Baldwin and glanced at his website for some minutes. He is no naive attorney. No one can tell me he doesn't know about security and confidentiality.

I also watched a fair portion of an older one of MS this a.m. where they were going to look into the players in the Delphi case, starting with Baldiwin, past trials, talk to people, wins, what they'd expect him to do in this case, etc. and I find it very interesting they predicted going after the warrant and the gun evidence supposedly based on another case which was not at all similar but the gun or bullet or whatever evidence was... They pointed out they knew nothing of what was in this warrant in this case, etc. or if he would have anything to go after and I do not know that I believed them... Anyhow that would be another topic but anyhow....

Not directing my response at you just at the situation and anything that comes from MW or Baldwin is suspect to me and not fact.

There is a lot I'd like to know (not that I'd buy it necessarily anyhow) but did a number of photos just happen to be one one screen and he scrolled through them and photographed each one? Or did he go looking for them on an office computer and found them and had easy access, n security at all? Who left them up if they were up? And why were they viewing them and when? Etc., etc., etc, etc.

Honestly as far as we know it is only allegedly MW who passed them right...? Of his own free will and idea? Because he thought Allen innocent and this would help Allen HOW? Or was there another reason?

We don't know sh*t about this, we know the perpetrator's version and only a small part of that. One guy who likely could have blown that version to smithereens is dead...
There's no proof of any of it ATM, just what has been reported, but the very fact that the defence lawyers have been thrown off the case is proof enough to me.

Also, for those stick pics to be shown by media, there had to be at least 5 pics leaked IMO. The tree, the two creek photos and a pic each of A and L.
 
They did that with RL and do it with everyone. (Eg the orange and shackles). He's in solitary for his own protection as he is an accused child killer. I saw the recent video of him. (RA). He sure looks like BG in that IMO.
IMO, he's in solitary because they stashed a defendant in a state prison instead of a county jail.
 
IMO, he's in solitary because they stashed a defendant in a state prison instead of a county jail.
Even if he was in county he would still have to be in solitary for his protection from other prisoners. Eg. Somebody could just commit a traffic violation just to get in there to kill him. IMO of course.

For those asking about who is who and sources etc. This is a link to Reddit which has a lot of info. It's where I often get info and then do searches on what I find.

 
Even if he was in county he would still have to be in solitary for his protection from other prisoners. Eg. Somebody could just commit a traffic violation just to get in there to kill him. IMO of course.

For those asking about who is who and sources etc. This is a link to Reddit which has a lot of info. It's where I often get info and then do searches on what I find.


Well, that's fine, then put him in solitary in a county jail. The reality is prison murders are urban legend. I don't know if my link works, I'm no good with linking pdfs. That's a report on Indiana.




Of the 217 deaths reported for 2020, just under 60%, or 129, of those deaths occurred within a state prison. Nearly 83% of deaths reported within the state prisons were due to natural causes/illness. Just under 8% of deaths resulted from suicide, 5% were classified as accidental, and 2% were homicides.

REPORT_Death-in-Custody-Reporting-Act-Annual-Report.pdf
 

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