LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I don't know. These could be a different leaker. Anybody could have photographed that tree after the crime scene was released and the other two photos I am guessing were the clothes/shoe in the creek which I have seen.
It seems like those were floating around right after the murders. Do you remember something about an aerial shot from a helicopter or plane or something?
 
It appears this ain't the Judge's first rodeo.
Below see the last time, 2018, the replacement Defense moved to have their client's revocation of counsel by Judge Gull reviewed. But they opted to simply make the objection record and they didn't pursue to the interlocutory review.


Private attorneys in death penalty cases create dilemmas for judges, public defenders - The Indiana Lawyer
whether the defendant’s right to an attorney of his own choice trumps his right to effective counsel.

Larry Landis, executive director of the Indiana Public Defender Council, said he empathizes with the dilemma judges confront in these cases.
The bench has to weigh the defendant’s right to choose counsel against the ability of the attorney to provide representation.

These sentences are key imo. And key in this case as well imo. And a problem no doubt. Had the Old D not been at minimum negligent with their client's case, this boat would not exist. That is not even just "effective" counsel, it is more than just that problem alone.

Expert qualification is necessary and I can't recall but I think it is called the Dobson? (something with a D) rule or law, they have to meet criteria. Any expert that quits due to it sounds to me like he wasn't qualified.

One also has to wonder why the public defenders dropped it...

It's also quite different in that in the case talked of, private attorneys already existed who then ran into a money problem and needed State money for an expert, etc. RA did not have private attorneys to begin with.

Clearly it is something that need to be addressed and clear and had they hadn't dropped the ball, maybe it would be. And there is hope since all goes in favor of the defendant these days if they continue to pursue it in this case. BUT is it in favor of the defendant to let him choose ineffective and unethical counsel who can't even protect his case file for instance? We all know what comes next, then they come back with years of appeals on that and that they had ineffective counsel and whine that they should have protected him from such...

Personally I think in this case they need to go and perhaps someone else will step up pro bono who did not do these things and in that case, I'd say it would have to be granted so long as of course they are licensed attorneys, etc. I don't disagree with that, the right or the premise at all. EFFECTIVE counsel. We all know a major appeal basis is INEFFECTIVE COUNSEL.

This is an end run in this case. This all came after.

It's different but it is like a defendant wanting to represent themselves. There is a litany of what they need to be advised of because generally it is not in their best interest for a number of reasons. They need to be advised, protected from self and clear on it but in the end in that one it is their decision. Well not "advised" but told what is necessary. It almost never is in their best interest.

I certainly don't know, too much legal stuff for me to know the ins and outs but these two had a compromised case file and were already warned and were disqualified and NOW are trying to come on as unpaid private attorneys when they already were "paid" by the State attorneys representing him. I think they do need to clarify the issue and when and if it can or can't be done depending on this or that and right to private counsel versus protecting the defendant from ineffective (or worse) counsel but i don't even see it a applying here because it isn't a similar situation. The ones in the case cited were private counsel throughout. And even then there were reasons for it all.

Tough one.

This all could have been avoided had Baldwin did what almost any responsible law firm does and that is protect and safeguard their office and materails/case files. Instead it is like a public library or sure just come on in, use this or that at your pleasure. I spent a bit of time yesterday morning on him and I really did not know much about these two and did not realize his career and law firm and age, etc. and now I see even LESS excuse for what happened or that he could NAIVELY allow this to happen or lack such security or not know to not compromise security. I see now NO accident which i already didn't but now am way more towards 100 percent on that, let's call it 99.99999 percent.

As usual I am a bit here and there in this but trying to catch up and cover a bit but it does all relate to the issues.

Imo again they need to be done and kept from this case entirely. I don't know but they could find there were procedural errors as to how it was done, their disqualification, we will see but it doesn't take away the valid reasons for it.

BUT clearly the issue in GENERAL of a defendant having ineffective private counsel versus his right to choose his own counsel could use a lot more definition. perhaps?

Looks to me like she dotted her Is, crossed her Ts and laid out the reasons, consulted, etc. in the one you posted and they dropped the effort for some reason, perhaps because they knew the basis was sound...

I DO NOT KNOW AND KNOW NOTHING but that this case is a mess and by the way not long ago it was pretty quiet... If anyone recalls... And then here came the; defense with a crazy filing...
 
Well, that's fine, then put him in solitary in a county jail. The reality is prison murders are urban legend. I don't know if my link works, I'm no good with linking pdfs. That's a report on Indiana.




Of the 217 deaths reported for 2020, just under 60%, or 129, of those deaths occurred within a state prison. Nearly 83% of deaths reported within the state prisons were due to natural causes/illness. Just under 8% of deaths resulted from suicide, 5% were classified as accidental, and 2% were homicides.

REPORT_Death-in-Custody-Reporting-Act-Annual-Report.pdf
I don't think a county jail has the resources to keep him there. He would virtually have to have his own jailer there 24/7 and get exercise on his own, eat on his own, shower and shave on his own. He has been there more than a year already.
 
RED BBM

I was gonna say ... oh ... nevermind.
Anyway, Mitch W is a ... social butterfly. He couldn't focus long enough to write a thank you note. :cowcouch:
Long enough though to take SEVERAL screen shots, pass them on and write what sounds like a lengthy affidavit and write a mess of an O filing? Of course the idea that the affidavit is lengthy came from you about why it couldn't be uploaded. He wouldn't be able to do so anyhow, he isn't a party to the case.

You don't have to duck or hide.

I get little time to dial in as you know and so you get what you get when I do get a moment in the morning or at night in a scramble to catch up if you meant the cowhide couch to be near your first sentence. If you meant it to be by MW well I don't know why as I could care less what you say about his ability or inability to write a thank you note. I haven't watched him but for me he is Baldwin's paid under the table blankety blank blank ______.
 
This will probably come as a shock to you, but yeah I've watched trials lol.

Honestly, I'm not concerned with what other areas do with their traffic violations. I'm concerned about a fair trial and justice for Abby and Libby. I'm actually concerned about a conviction thats arrived at while respecting the constitution and Indiana trial rules. That's why I do all that "dry reading".
I've done plenty of dry reading in my life (tons) which is why I called it that. Yes I have done it when I care what is actually the rule, the law as opposed to what is going on OR when of course I had time and it affects what is changing for the worse in our world and such isn't followed, etc. or even of course in our personal case and wanting to know the difference in charges and more. It's up there with tax code though for my desire to have to read such but I get your reason.

Caring what others do in traffic etc. doesn't matter to you but you talk of shackles and orange jumpsuits and officers around and with an unconvicted person as if that is unheard of and I am saying it goes on in far lesser charges and not convicted people all over the place. It isn't particular or unique to Allen nor means THAT part is about him being treated differently because it isn't and it isn't unique to him. I also mentioned Daybell, Stauch and more. I will go so far as to say I am not sure I am in agreement with it for ANY as none of them are convicted at that point, traffic violator or murderer (alleged). I can understand security (and believe in it with more serious charges) but does it need to be pictured throughout on news or a jury see them that way? BUT it is not unique to Allen.
 
"You'd think if all so corrupt they WOULD have wanted it...
RA under control by them in their own jail..."
Huh? Did you miss the revelation the one of the sheriff's went
out to the prison, and may have tried to talk to the defendant
(without his lawyers present, and they didn't even find out about
this until much later after it happened), also, maybe the sheriff
didn't go to the prison to talk to the defendant - but rather to talk
to those in charge at the prison to discuss how he wanted the
defendant to be 'treated'....
In his own jail he wouldn't have had to would he...

Let's see the evidence on the reason for this. "May have" "Maybe" throughout here in this post. When was it? After treatment and where he was was being yelled about by the defense? Dates? I heard it but I believe it came from the defense and don't remember the date or the date as opposed to their filings?

Did he or did he not try to talk to the defendant? Evidence?

I am really tired of the smoke, mirrors and blizzards. It isn't that I am one sided it is that ALL of it comes from one side and just staying aware of that doesn't keep it clear but it helps to.
 
Nothing would surprise me in this case. Are you talking Sheriff of Carroll County? Do you have a link?
I heard it. I believe it was in some filing or some such by the defense. No evidence backing it up of course as far as I recall or as to the reasons.
 
"Nothing would surprise me in this case. Are you talking Sheriff of Carroll
County? Do you have a link?"
It was one of the Sheriffs, it was alleged in one of the Defense documents,
quite frankly by this stage, I've lost track of all the things that the Defense
filed and what was then sealed or dumped by that Judges court....
EDIT: GrandmaBear said:"I heard it. I believe it was in some filing"...
Good to know you saw it too.
 
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They did that with RL and do it with everyone. (Eg the orange and shackles). He's in solitary for his own protection as he is an accused child killer. I saw the recent video of him. (RA). He sure looks like BG in that IMO.
That was my first THOUGHT. Stopping the attempt to look shrunken and gaunt, etc., he looked LIKE BG. He was doing well and it was apparent.

And yes prison clothes and shackles are not unique to Allen.
 
I don't think a county jail has the resources to keep him there. He would virtually have to have his own jailer there 24/7 and get exercise on his own, eat on his own, shower and shave on his own. He has been there more than a year already.
County jails have isolation areas. My concern regarding appeal is the 14th amendment of the US Constitution.
 
There's no proof of any of it ATM, just what has been reported, but the very fact that the defence lawyers have been thrown off the case is proof enough to me.

Also, for those stick pics to be shown by media, there had to be at least 5 pics leaked IMO. The tree, the two creek photos and a pic each of A and L.
Pretty sure there is more than that. And some got different ones just in what I've listened to (but that's from what was forwarded to them from the bunch others were forwarded). And yeah just how did he access more than one, isn't like someone just left a screen up, he took a quick one photo and left.

Another thing that is CLEAR is that since this is not denied (but is explained as less than it was by MW and Baldwin) they COULD NOT deny it as there is a trail. So all they could do was minimize and Baldwin had MW take it on and I am betting they both put the actual weight of it on the suicide guy...
 
Well, that's fine, then put him in solitary in a county jail. The reality is prison murders are urban legend. I don't know if my link works, I'm no good with linking pdfs. That's a report on Indiana.




Of the 217 deaths reported for 2020, just under 60%, or 129, of those deaths occurred within a state prison. Nearly 83% of deaths reported within the state prisons were due to natural causes/illness. Just under 8% of deaths resulted from suicide, 5% were classified as accidental, and 2% were homicides.

REPORT_Death-in-Custody-Reporting-Act-Annual-Report.pdf
5% accidental - "he tripped in the shower, your honour"

2% homicides so approx 4 murders, possibly 2 in State and 2 in County ?

So 60% of deaths in State, 40% in County. Not surprised at that as peeps are more likely to stay for less time in County presumably getting bailed etc.

Still 4 murders too many.
 
Even if he was in county he would still have to be in solitary for his protection from other prisoners. Eg. Somebody could just commit a traffic violation just to get in there to kill him. IMO of course.

For those asking about who is who and sources etc. This is a link to Reddit which has a lot of info. It's where I often get info and then do searches on what I find.


Highest profile. Murdered two girls from that very county HEINOUSLY. Put him in Carroll County?? A county from all we hear full of Os and of course people who have wondered and had to deal with wondering who killed two little school girls for years and having to deal with he fear and repercussions from it all as the nationi followed and wanted this killer caught so bad? Stick him in the very local little jail that can't easily protect him from murder or suicide? I agree. And IF they had, rest assured there would have been issue made of that imo...

If they did move him now to say Cass, I will bet on how long before there is a problem or a made up problem, etc.

I just like you saw BG this last appearance. It was my VERY first thought and shock.
 
Well, that's fine, then put him in solitary in a county jail. The reality is prison murders are urban legend. I don't know if my link works, I'm no good with linking pdfs. That's a report on Indiana.




Of the 217 deaths reported for 2020, just under 60%, or 129, of those deaths occurred within a state prison. Nearly 83% of deaths reported within the state prisons were due to natural causes/illness. Just under 8% of deaths resulted from suicide, 5% were classified as accidental, and 2% were homicides.

REPORT_Death-in-Custody-Reporting-Act-Annual-Report.pdf
There is a lot wrong with that. Of WHAT 217 deaths? Number of deaths in the state? In prisons and jails or where does the 217 even come from? Of course most result from natural causes. And isn't it a GOOD thing so few result in state prison, that means he is safe as is the intent? I don't have time but I have a lot of questions about all of that AND of what is missing from it. And no, I didn't read any link, just your shared sentences.
 
"Nothing would surprise me in this case. Are you talking Sheriff of Carroll
County? Do you have a link?"
It was one of the Sheriffs, it was alleged in one of the Defense documents,
quite frankly by this stage, I've lost track of all the things that the Defense
filed and what was then sealed or dumped by that Judges court....
EDIT: GrandmaBear said:"I heard it. I believe it was in some filing"...
Good to know you saw it too.
Ok LOL Gbear's your link.
 
5% accidental - "he tripped in the shower, your honour"

2% homicides so approx 4 murders, possibly 2 in State and 2 in County ?

So 60% of deaths in State, 40% in County. Not surprised at that as peeps are more likely to stay for less time in County presumably getting bailed etc.

Still 4 murders too many.
My point was the idea there are a high rate of murders in facilities that house criminals is not that true. I think people watch too many movies lol.
 

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