LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Are there any female Os? Any female O guards? Anyone suspect females in this murder? Any mention of females in the pedo ring? No, they are the targets.

I am not trying to man bash and there certainly are female criminals but why is it and what is it about some men that they do these things, join radical groups, kill, fantasize and indulge in such crimes? I mean seriously like one of the worst groups, the KKK, it is men. Always men. For the most part and generally speaking that is a fact.

We are short of men here but @Cousin Dupree I KNOW you are not anyone who could or would ever do such or be any of these things but do you have anything from a male perspective as to how or why so many men can come to do this, be this way, join such groups, cross the line, indulge their greedy evil sick wants on innocents or women?

I know this is kind of a random comment/thought but I as a female cannot understand it and I just wonder if men can understand it better? Or see the way, the how, what goes wrong that makes them not a normal human male, etc. I am serious. This is a serious question/ponderance. I just have never been able to fathom it. I can get with either sex a loss of temper, stress, a breakup, etc. Still not good but I can't fathom with either sex doing some of these things but it is predominantly male. With any group too of radicals, etc. White supremacists. KKK. Os. Pedos. WHY? WAR even.
I can only point you to the man and woman killers like Fred West and his wife also the Moors murders Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. Both of those couples where depraved masochistic sexual murderers and abusers and it was almost worse because a woman was involved. I think I previously mentioned the Soham murders too from not too long ago where his girlfriend gave him a false alibi. It does happen.
 
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My question is whether or not they said it was ever chambered? Maybe he was trying to load it and he dropped it, or it fell out of a pocket, etc.
I think the Sig Sauer looks like a gun that would have bullets in a clip so if he racked the bullet it would have ejected up through the clip and out of the gun and had ejection marks on it that way. I don't think it is a gun with a revolving chamber. I could be wrong on this but am going by the look of it.
 
I think the Sig Sauer looks like a gun that would have bullets in a clip so if he racked the bullet it would have ejected up through the clip and out of the gun and had ejection marks on it that way. I don't think it is a gun with a revolving chamber. I could be wrong on this but am going by the look of it.
I agree with that. Either way though, you're not getting ejector marks unless it was fully chambered.
 
just a sharing. I'd never seen this detective's channel before. He's calm, sensible, down to earth. A palate cleanser. I like that. :chillin:



FYI: Detective Ken Mains - you may have heard of him.
Some of Mains' credentials include: USMC Veteran, Bachelors Degree (Criminal Justice), Masters Degree Studies (Criminal Profiling), Patrol Officer, Undercover Narcotics, FBI Task Force, District Attorney's Office, Drug Task Force Supervisor and Cold Case Detective. He is the founder of the cold case organization AISOCC, where he led the worlds best investigators including the Homicide Hunter Lt. Joe Kenda, Dr. Werner Spitz, Dr. Henry Lee, Dr. Mary Ellen O'Toole and Dr. Cyril Wecht, Jim Clemente, Ann Burges and Bob Keppel to name a few. Follow renowned Cold Case Expert Ken Mains on his mission to solve the unsolved.

TLDR;
for this short crime scene commentary, Mains considers only the Franks Memo's written crime scene descriptions
(he ignores D's interpretation/commentary ... focus on CS as described)
Mains hasn't dug into this particular case, but keeps an eye and stays above the fray.
He recorded this session b/c he did read the FM given crime scene info had been revealed ...and recorded what he took note of from the CS description.

With caution, Mains shares his impressions such as the following:
  • severely mentally disturbed person would come to mind
  • yes one person could have done this
  • (yes more than one person could have done this as well)
  • cult activity would come to mind - and would require much more investigation
  • obviously he'd prefer to see the crime scene photos himself
  • would want all immediate/early investigative written reports from initial/original professional crime scene team members, responders, etc.
  • would want all written reports from autopsy
  • would not want to see any report after LE puts forth RA (due to loss of objectivity at that point)

Main makes no comments with regard to timeline.
 
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I have seen a couple of videos from this guy (the beginnings only) and he seems to be a reasonable source. This link lists a lot of sources regarding the case and KK case so if anyone wants to look at, for example, the PCA for KK it is here plus a lot of other items.

 
nope
but that article makes it clear that in an official capacity the ARMY's been dealing with Norse Paganism since pre-2015 ... and decided to recognize it.
Would you say that the beard RA had was a Norse paganism beard? How would the military know? Why not recognise all beards?

From your link, I see they already recognised Sikh beards since 2017.

"When the Army authorized beards for religious soldiers in early 2017, the move was a response to years of requests — and a lawsuit — from Sikh soldiers seeking to both serve and adhere to the tenets of their faith.

But the directive, technically, applied to all religions.

And that includes Norse pagans, also known as heathens, according to an undated memo from the 14th Military Police Brigade at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

“I grant your accommodation, subject to the standards and limitations described below,” commander Col. Curtis Shroeder wrote to a 795th Military Police Battalion soldier, whose name is redacted from a copy of the memo circulating on Facebook.

“In observance of your Heathen; Norse Pagan faith, you may wear a beard, in accordance with Army uniform and grooming standards for soldiers with approved religious accommodations.”

Per the latest version of AR 670-1, beards with approved accommodations must be less than 2 inches long, measured from the bottom of the chin, and cannot be groomed with any petroleum-based products.

While beards are required by religious tenet for practicing Sikhs, the rules are murkier for heathens."
 
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Would you say that the beard RA had was a Norse paganism beard? How would the military know? Why not recognise all beards?

From your link, I see they already recognised Sikh beards since 2017.

"When the Army authorized beards for religious soldiers in early 2017, the move was a response to years of requests — and a lawsuit — from Sikh soldiers seeking to both serve and adhere to the tenets of their faith.

But the directive, technically, applied to all religions.

And that includes Norse pagans, also known as heathens, according to an undated memo from the 14th Military Police Brigade at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

“I grant your accommodation, subject to the standards and limitations described below,” commander Col. Curtis Shroeder wrote to a 795th Military Police Battalion soldier, whose name is redacted from a copy of the memo circulating on Facebook.

“In observance of your Heathen; Norse Pagan faith, you may wear a beard, in accordance with Army uniform and grooming standards for soldiers with approved religious accommodations.”

Per the latest version of AR 670-1, beards with approved accommodations must be less than 2 inches long, measured from the bottom of the chin, and cannot be groomed with any petroleum-based products.

While beards are required by religious tenet for practicing Sikhs, the rules are murkier for heathens."
Beards can be an issue when troops need to wear gas masks, for one example. We all remember ones with beards all having issues with just surgical masks during covid. Now, imagine your life, and possibly the guys in your troop, depending on you having an airtight seal. There are many other reasons, but that was just one big one.
 
Would you say that the beard RA had was a Norse paganism beard? How would the military know? Why not recognise all beards?

From your link, I see they already recognised Sikh beards since 2017.

"When the Army authorized beards for religious soldiers in early 2017, the move was a response to years of requests — and a lawsuit — from Sikh soldiers seeking to both serve and adhere to the tenets of their faith.

But the directive, technically, applied to all religions.

And that includes Norse pagans, also known as heathens, according to an undated memo from the 14th Military Police Brigade at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

“I grant your accommodation, subject to the standards and limitations described below,” commander Col. Curtis Shroeder wrote to a 795th Military Police Battalion soldier, whose name is redacted from a copy of the memo circulating on Facebook.

“In observance of your Heathen; Norse Pagan faith, you may wear a beard, in accordance with Army uniform and grooming standards for soldiers with approved religious accommodations.”

Per the latest version of AR 670-1, beards with approved accommodations must be less than 2 inches long, measured from the bottom of the chin, and cannot be groomed with any petroleum-based products.

While beards are required by religious tenet for practicing Sikhs, the rules are murkier for heathens."
It just looks like a beard?

 

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No he admitted he had communicated with Libby and searches on the Delphi murders that he did showed up when LE checked his phones. He said to LE that when he saw the name and the murders in the news he remembered the name Libby.
Yeah, and as I recall, he said he also talked to "her friend". But yeah, isn't it Libby's data that (ultimately) led LE to KK?
And based on the way KK interrogated by LE, my impression is that there wasn't any indication from Libby's data that the girls went to those trails to meet anyone.
 
Would you say that the beard RA had was a Norse paganism beard? How would the military know? Why not recognise all beards?

From your link, I see they already recognised Sikh beards since 2017.

"When the Army authorized beards for religious soldiers in early 2017, the move was a response to years of requests — and a lawsuit — from Sikh soldiers seeking to both serve and adhere to the tenets of their faith.

But the directive, technically, applied to all religions.

And that includes Norse pagans, also known as heathens, according to an undated memo from the 14th Military Police Brigade at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri.

“I grant your accommodation, subject to the standards and limitations described below,” commander Col. Curtis Shroeder wrote to a 795th Military Police Battalion soldier, whose name is redacted from a copy of the memo circulating on Facebook.

“In observance of your Heathen; Norse Pagan faith, you may wear a beard, in accordance with Army uniform and grooming standards for soldiers with approved religious accommodations.”

Per the latest version of AR 670-1, beards with approved accommodations must be less than 2 inches long, measured from the bottom of the chin, and cannot be groomed with any petroleum-based products.

While beards are required by religious tenet for practicing Sikhs, the rules are murkier for heathens."
I have no idea if there's such a thing as a norse pagan beard style.
I suppose we could google something?
Pretty sure RA was alreaday sporting a longish beard at the time of his mugshot ...
 
The Army’s puny facial-hair regulations are no match for the virile savagery of Norse pagans
...
But the new memo marks a significant victory for, and I can’t believe I’m writing this, the growing population of Norse pagans in the U.S. armed forces — especially given the beard’s status as a non-essential component of the faith.

A Soldier Just Got Permission To Rock A Beard Because He’s A Metal Heathen

2021 article on norse pagan beards ...

also the first reference I found that mentions the "virile savagery of Norse pagans" , though. :hiding:

Beards in Norse Paganism | Required or Not? | The Troth

Some Heathen groups do require people to adhere to certain standards of dress and appearance, which may include beards

 
Yeah, and as I recall, he said he also talked to "her friend". But yeah, isn't it Libby's data that (ultimately) led LE to KK?
And based on the way KK interrogated by LE, my impression is that there wasn't any indication from Libby's data that the girls went to those trails to meet anyone.
I'm not sure what led them to Canal Street for the search there in Feb 2017 but were either of the Klines already on the sex offenders register at that time? I know they checked the sex offenders registry early on as I remember it being reported.
I think they also knew the connection between Libby, A.Shots and K.Kline early on but don't know how they knew that. The warning from LE about knowing what your children are up to comes to mind too.

This article mentions the search warrant on 25 Feb 2017. It also states that KK says LE told him he was the last person to talk to the girls.

 
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It just looks like a beard?

It just looks like a beard? LOL.

Don't read this unless you want to be bored by the subject of Norse or any other beards.

 
How then would it have ejection marks? Not following. Pretty positive it was not simply dropped which is why I said back a ways why would a cop have racked his gun unless a Barney Fife and a bunny scared him...
I missed the part where they said it had ejection marks, for some reason.
 
I'm not in charge of my state. I'm not sure what you're insinuating, but I am not involved in the case as a party.
I am not insinuating anything. If you think he should not be in a prison or there is some law against it, complain to whoever it is you need to complain to in your state. If there is no law against go complain and say there should be a law that someone not convicted can be kept in a prison while awaiting trial. I'm serious. Or tell them you are fine with your taxes being raised so all county jails can keep secure and house high profile victims and have the facilities to keep them for years if necessary.

You mention Daybell but they aren't in IN. Ir your state or the Delphi area and counties can't do it and it matters to you that much and it does seem to, then maybe it is something you want to make a cause and try to do something about. I don't know how much time and energy you have, I do know if my life was what it was there are some serious ones I'd try to get addressed in my state. Not that one but jokes of sentences for one and more and victims' rights, etc.

And also I have made it entirely clear that I think Allen is safest there, and never have I said he should be hung in the town square or anything else like that. He should not be starved (he isn't and no such claims), beaten (he isn't and no such claims), etc., etc. and apparently he gets good and regular medical care if his weight loss is documented which would mean it has been documented since way back and his care has worked as he now looks good. He has not been killed over the course of a year. Thee is more attention on it and his treatment there than ever just ensuring all is done right so no one yells so I don't see the problem.

I simply don't agree with you. I insinuated nothing. Or if you think I did, I am happy to clear it up. I am saying it is your state and if you don't like it and can then do something about it, more power to you. CLEARLY it is legal or seems to be to have him housed there. And again, I'd love to try to get people to help me change things in mine and time to do so. I don't agree with you on this one but I don't have to, it isn't my state even if I did agree.

And like I said, PEACE. We can disagree. I don't see though what telling me off for it does to change it and I simply don't agree. I believe Tresir also thinks he is safest there and gave stats on the county jail. You don'\t seem to take any of that in and that's fine. Good Lod their staff was under ten wasn't it for round the clock jailing 7 days a week?

But again we can disagree. Good discussions going on in here without all agreeing.

And if I say anything at Allen like my cheetos, beer, etc. remarks that is at any perp I feel guilty. It is entirely separate from any talk of where he is housed. Personally I think he should be facing the DP and be put to death AFTER conviction but I definitely want to see him make it to trial if he continues to deny his guilt and go to trial. Well he did admit guilt but I'm sure ya know what I meant. The absolutely most maddening cases in my opinion is when the likely perp suicides or is killed by cops even in a standoff or some such and the family is robbed of justice, trial, answers, etc. Like in Petito. So NO I don't think he should be hung in some town square nor killed, abused, etc. I do NOT think he should be pandered to though.

Anyhow hope this clears up anything you think was an insinuation and if it does not, just ask as I will gladly answer outright making whatever it is not an insinuation. I don't feel I gave any.
 

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