LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Cover page at this moment: (don't know who all the extra lawyers are.)


State of Indiana v. Richard M. Allen

08C01-2210-MR-000001

Court
Carroll Circuit Court
Case Type
MR - Murder
Filed
10/28/2022
Status
10/28/2022, Pending
Charges
35-42-1-1(2): Murder
Parties
State of Indiana, Allen
Attorneys
McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Christensen, Byron, Meek, Greenlee, Ridlen, Scremin, Lebrato, Luttrull
 
FYI,

Scremin & Libretto submitted withdrawal motions from RA's case under Gull today.
When Court accepts motions to withdraw, their names should leave that coverpage.
 
I am wayyyyy behind in here and will likely not ever catch up or go back so just doing the last few I might have time for.

In most cases, this kind of thing would seem outlandish to me and I'd not go that route but in this one there are enough reasons and indications to believe this is definitely one of the possible scenarios. And now, after all this time.......... they have charged kidnapping! Which they can do just with him by himself taking them by gunpoint, controlling them, etc. but boy they sure the heck waited... A long time...

And so that makes me think it is likely strategic... If they haven't/hadn't charged it, can they keep back part of the discovery that relates to a new charge that wasn't charged yet...? I struggle to find the words to explain what I mean but if a separate charge or in a way almost a separate case, and it wasn't charged or investigated with the murders, will things that relate be new discovery that defense will only have access to now? A full year plus later?

Or is it simply that they had all the time in the world to add these charges and waited until now and were in no rush?

Back to your theory here, this is one I hold yet as well as there is plenty to fit it. I can also hold it being Allen entirely on his own.

They both have plenty for us at this point to support either.

The O thing has nothing and is ludicrous. Old D would have been far wiser to do a Kline route as a defense but their problem there would lie in removing RA from being a part of that ring.

There's more here than we know and the defense in my opinion was trying to circumvent its coming probably because RA told all to them even if some of the things hadn't been charged yet.

Another thing I have NOT excluded yet is SA.

I think there is a lot we don't know here still.

Other than that it was not Os for goodness fricking sake.
I think LE has been very slowly and very carefully, building a case chain of facts and evidence. One that will leave little room, if any, for a defense lawyer to insert reasonable doubt into a jury's mind.
One that LE can hand to the prosecutor to build a rock solid slam dunk case in court. Prosecution does not have to provide a " Why " (motive) for the murders, although that would be icing on the cake.

You can bet that the entirety of that "down the hill" recording that Libby made will be played in court for the jury, as will the video on the bridge. There is a lot about this case that hasn't been made public yet.

I have been saying for years and will say again: The LAST thing LE wants is for the perp to walk free on a technicality. The last thing LE and the prosecution want is to get technical fouls called on them for hanging on the rim after the slam dunk.
 
He left a bullet behind. He got caught on video and was seen by witnesses and he admits he saw them. If there isn't any DNA, I don't think it is going to matter because there is so much other stuff.

Think of the Gilgo four. They are not saying the killers DNA is on all four bodies are they but there is a mixture of hairs. I mean if there was DNA then why didn't they catch LISK sooner? Since the bodies were found, that's taken 12 or 13 years to get him and they had the vehicle details for years.

There is A LOT of DNA from crimes that haven't been matched to a suspect because their DNA is not in a database.
 
I searched for "did KK know RA" using their full names and this article came up. I'm sure we have seen it before but it is interesting reading it again. Apparently, at one point they lived in the same street but KK says he didnt know him.


This supports exactly what I've been saying. There is no provable interaction between the two. No computer exchanges, phone exchanges, texts etc... So, how did they communicate? This article also says what I said before. KK claims to have information on the crime that the cops don't want to listen to.

It could be that it's obvious 🐮 :poop: or it just might be, as I somewhat suspect, refusing to go down a certain route for some reason. It seems that the prosecution believes it's RA, alone, who did this, and nothing will sway them away from that. I don't want ONE guy who's involved, I want them all.

If RA is found not guilty the prosecution will stick to it's guns and say he got away with it and leave it alone. There are cases where it's been proven that someone is innocent and they refuse to believe it and just say he's the one who did it, he just got away with it.

I don't want a sacrificial lamb, I want the whole flock.
 
While we're basically spitballing here, it seems to me he was fairly familiar and comfortable with his surroundings. I mean, really, walking that high bridge is a feat in itself. I would have required crawling and screaming/crying to make it across.

Another question. Why there? Why did he kill them where he did? He herded them quite a ways from the bridge. Was he headed somewhere else with them?

This is exactly why I believe Ron Logan was one of the people involved. A reporter interviewed him on his property when he was being investigated. He held the interview to show he had nothing to hide. The reporter asks him to say "Guys, down the hill." He starts off just the way the recorded guy says it, but raises his voice in pitch at the end. This is another reason I think Logan was involved. I wish the reporter had asked him to repeat it again without changing the pitch.

I found the video piece:

 
This is exactly why I believe Ron Logan was one of the people involved. A reporter interviewed him on his property when he was being investigated. He held the interview to show he had nothing to hide. The reporter asks him to say "Guys, down the hill." He starts off just the way the recorded guy says it, but raises his voice in pitch at the end. This is another reason I think Logan was involved. I wish the reporter had asked him to repeat it again without changing the pitch.

I found the video piece:



Footage of Logan (thanks cuz)
Logan's PCA claims his build is consistent with the BG video. How tall is he? 5'11" - 6 Ft? And with that huge belly? Logan's gait shows a bad knee.

LE: "Logan is consistent w/ BG."
fast forward 5 years ... nope!
"Allen is consistent w/ BG." :thinking:

So ... how can LE assert both men are "consistent with BG" in the video? Just another headscratcher. :sigh: See ya at trial. (Not you, Logan.)
 
Footage of Logan (thanks cuz)
Logan's PCA claims his build is consistent with the BG video. How tall is he? 5'11" - 6 Ft? And with that huge belly? Logan's gait shows a bad knee.

LE: "Logan is consistent w/ BG."
fast forward 5 years ... nope!
"Allen is consistent w/ BG." :thinking:

So ... how can LE assert both men are "consistent with BG" in the video? Just another headscratcher. :sigh: See ya at trial. (Not you, Logan.)

Two people who knew Logan well were shown the footage of BG, indepently, to see if they thought it was Logan. Before being asked if they thought it was him, they both said it was Ron Logan.
 
Footage of Logan (thanks cuz)
Logan's PCA claims his build is consistent with the BG video. How tall is he? 5'11" - 6 Ft? And with that huge belly? Logan's gait shows a bad knee.

LE: "Logan is consistent w/ BG."
fast forward 5 years ... nope!
"Allen is consistent w/ BG." :thinking:

So ... how can LE assert both men are "consistent with BG" in the video? Just another headscratcher. :sigh: See ya at trial. (Not you, Logan.)

This is just another reason I feel that the prosecution is trying to taylor a case against RA as the only one.
 
27:17 This made by an FBI agent. It was done May 19th 2022. About a year after the release of RLs PCA:

 
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27:17 This made by an FBI agent. It was done May 19th 2022. About a year after the release of RLs PCA:



One thing I didn't know is how small the area the search of his property was, and how limited the scope was. There is an awful lot of area that was not covered by that warrant.

Also, in this May 19th, 2022 video it's said that nobody saw someone leaving the area covered in blood or wet. RA was arrested October 31, 2022. So were police holding back the information on the muddy/bloody guy or was that just created?
 
I believe there was a group of them and I have no idea. I think the Odinist angle isn't as crazy as a lot of people think.

If RA wanted to kill someone and loaded up weaponry in order to do so, why did he stop after those? There had to be a specific motive for those two girls.

IIRC, KK set up a meeting for them.
How come nobody saw any others or their vehicles?
 
One thing I didn't know is how small the area the search of his property was, and how limited the scope was. There is an awful lot of area that was not covered by that warrant.

Also, in this May 19th, 2022 video it's said that nobody saw someone leaving the area covered in blood or wet. RA was arrested October 31, 2022. So were police holding back the information on the muddy/bloody guy or was that just created?
I think they held back a lot of stuff. Didnt they know about RA vehicle all along?
 
How come nobody saw any others or their vehicles?

(This is merely thoughts I've had about this.)

They were all on RLs property and came to the hill waiting for them from there. They were forced down the hill by RL or RA (Depending on who you believe.). Watch the video I posted about RL by an FBI agent. It has everything I've learned about his possible involvement in bits and pieces over time and clarifies some things I only knew in broad terms. For instance. I had no idea how limited the search warrant for his property was. It sounds like they never checked the barn or any other areas. So a lot could've been missed.

I have no idea how many were involved in this, but I would guess at least 3.

I think they held back a lot of stuff. Didnt they know about RA vehicle all along?

They knew about a vehicle. I'll admit that my brother and I are car guys. We know more than the average bear* about cars on the road. Me, much more so in the past. So if you lined up a Ford Focus, Smart Car and a PT Cruiser I'd be able to pick each one out very easily. To me they don't look much alike at all. So it's hard for me to believe that those three descriptions could be applied to the same car.


I forget who said this, but somebody was wondering if he was addicted to drugs because he was a pharmacy tech. When I worked at the hospital the team I worked on had the responsibility to run the narcotics vault. It wasn't my primary job, but I had to fill in if the woman who ran it went on vacation or called in sick or on my weekend to work once a month.

Every morning the person working the narcotics vault would have to verify that EVERY pill recorded from the previous days end was still there or the missing pills were accounted for by orders from the floors. You'd have to do the same thing at the end of the day. There was a book similar to an accountants ledger where everything was recorded for the narcotics. There was never a stealing problem while I worked there. Near the end of my time there I worked the O.R. and dispensed narcotics to anesthesia residents. They also had to have accounted for every ml. of narcotics they used.

I'd imagine a chain store like CVS has a similar system in place. If RA had a narcotics problem CVS would have figured it out in less than two weeks. It would only take that long in order to match up the missing meds with who was working at the time. They probably have unannounced urine tests that happen to the pharmacy employees periodically. So if he had a drug problem he was getting them from somewhere else.

*Has anyone tested the average bear on car knowledge? :thinking:
 
Last edited:
Cover page at this moment: (don't know who all the extra lawyers are.)


State of Indiana v. Richard M. Allen

08C01-2210-MR-000001

Court
Carroll Circuit Court
Case Type
MR - Murder
Filed
10/28/2022
Status
10/28/2022, Pending
Charges
35-42-1-1(2): Murder
Parties
State of Indiana, Allen
Attorneys
McLeland, Baldwin, Rozzi, Christensen, Byron, Meek, Greenlee, Ridlen, Scremin, Lebrato, Luttrull
We know who Luttrull is ( the new asst prosecutor) and Greenlee could be MS podcast guy. Baldwin had a lawyer but I don't know his name, so i don't know the other four.
 
One thing I didn't know is how small the area the search of his property was, and how limited the scope was. There is an awful lot of area that was not covered by that warrant.

Also, in this May 19th, 2022 video it's said that nobody saw someone leaving the area covered in blood or wet. RA was arrested October 31, 2022. So were police holding back the information on the muddy/bloody guy or was that just created?
I think they always said that a witness saw someone leaving but weren't specific about what they saw. They have been protective of the witnesses IMO.
 
(This is merely thoughts I've had about this.)

They were all on RLs property and came to the hill waiting for them from there. They were forced down the hill by RL or RA (Depending on who you believe.). Watch the video I posted about RL by an FBI agent. It has everything I've learned about his possible involvement in bits and pieces over time and clarifies some things I only knew in broad terms. For instance. I had no idea how limited the search warrant for his property was. It sounds like they never checked the barn or any other areas. So a lot could've been missed.

I have no idea how many were involved in this, but I would guess at least 3.



They knew about a vehicle. I'll admit that my brother and I are car guys. We know more than the average bear* about cars on the road. Me, much more so in the past. So if you lined up a Ford Focus, Smart Car and a PT Cruiser I'd be able to pick each one out very easily. To me they don't look much alike at all. So it's hard for me to believe that those three descriptions could be applied to the same car.


I forget who said this, but somebody was wondering if he was addicted to drugs because he was a pharmacy tech. When I worked at the hospital the team I worked on had the responsibility to run the narcotics vault. It wasn't my primary job, but I had to fill in if the woman who ran it went on vacation or called in sick or on my weekend to work once a month.

Every morning the person working the narcotics vault would have to verify that EVERY pill recorded from the previous days end was still there or the missing pills were accounted for by orders from the floors. You'd have to do the same thing at the end of the day. There was a book similar to an accountants ledger where everything was recorded for the narcotics. There was never a stealing problem while I worked there. Near the end of my time there I worked the O.R. and dispensed narcotics to anesthesia residents. They also had to have accounted for every ml. of narcotics they used.

I'd imagine a chain store like CVS has a similar system in place. If RA had a narcotics problem CVS would have figured it out in less than two weeks. It would only take that long in order to match up the missing meds with who was working at the time. They probably have unannounced urine tests that happen to the pharmacy employees periodically. So if he had a drug problem he was getting them from somewhere else.

*Has anyone tested the average bear on car knowledge? :thinking:
That was me that suggested that. He could have manipulated the records to hide anything he was stealing. Made false scripts, etc. I bet a pharmacy are not as hot on records as a hospital are.

ETA you say this below, however, the creek is in between Logan's property and the hill so how could this have happened ie how did they cross the creek?

They were all on RLs property and came to the hill waiting for them from there. They were forced down the hill by RL or RA (Depending on who you believe.).
 
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This is exactly why I believe Ron Logan was one of the people involved. A reporter interviewed him on his property when he was being investigated. He held the interview to show he had nothing to hide. The reporter asks him to say "Guys, down the hill." He starts off just the way the recorded guy says it, but raises his voice in pitch at the end. This is another reason I think Logan was involved. I wish the reporter had asked him to repeat it again without changing the pitch.

I found the video piece:


The guy is dead. You have to let it go now. All RL cared about was the police poking around and finding out he was still driving everywhere.
 

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