LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Rozzi and Baldwin are not bad lawyers, and I agree with Cuz, they are doing their jobs. Personally I don't know why they went to all the trouble to get put back on RA's case but for some reason they did. I don't know why they've went to all the trouble to fight this judge like they have but they did and they don't seem to be intimidated by her, that's a good thing imo.
 
I think we all know defense attorneys as well as the prosecution leak stuff all the time. Not that they have someone commit suicide but I'm not sure how that can be Rozzi and Baldwin's fault.
 
Baldwin and Rozzi apparently had great reputations maybe still do. I seem to remember a post too about how high of an esteem Judge Gull is held in who has been torn apart on here.

Apparently all three did. So have they all went off their rockers or one side or has the RA case sent them all off and at each other?

There was a suicide and it was in the chain of what was leaked and it being spread out to the masses through what seems like a chain and not the first time amongst other issues previously.

I don't know about anyone else and am not responding to a single soul but I don't have a horse in this race. They aren't my children, not my judge, not my attorneys nor have I seen a one of them before or ever heard of them. I know ALL supposedly if you look at an online profile have great reps.

I can only speak for myself and I've seen great atty profile reps and then seen them in cases where what they put online is nowhere close to how they represent someone. Judges as well.

Isn't my state. Are not my children. And so on.

I am though always biased to the side of justice, for victims and against perps. I have watched here for months hard ons at Gull. Diagnoses. She is passive agressive etc. I have watched false info posted as if fact. Repeatedly.

I happen to in watching those I don't know in this case meaning either attorney nor the judge think the bulk of what I see falls to the problems coming from the defense. Do any of us know? Not a ONE of us do. I feel the bulk and weight and things that have went on fall against the defense. Assuming I can have an opinion or if only certain ones can. I have no love or knowledge of Gull. I just know what I've seen. A couple of lawyers using someone who did not pass the bar one claimed was just a friend and some EX employee now come out to be what I felt was likely, that he WAS working for them, not that my opinion started with the proof of exactly what seemed likely.

I have even said maybe there just needs to be a clean slate, wipe all of them out.

It can be found here if no one broke or changed what i said. More than once.

The first judge wanted off and did not hesitate to do so and said things even about it that actually made him look a bit like some chicken. Now look at what is going on with the defense attorneys and the judge. All esteemed right? With long honorable careers? Okay then.

So she isn't passive aggressive and all the other stuff rained down here? Every time the defense filed something with the ISC it was said in here that the ISC had ruled and they had not?

I don't know why B & R and Gull even want to stay on. Honestly. I'd get the heck out like the first judge did.

They all want to and they are on and there will be opinions of all of them. Or is that not allowed.

Never have I felt sorry for a perp I feel guilty but for the first time ever I do.

And in my opinion B & R are bozos. And liars. They can't secure a conference room. He was just visiting and we come to find out recently as I suspected he was working for them and reviewing and more. Lies. Or sure look like it.

As a judge I would be at my wit's end and out of humor with them by now too. Not the first time with them either, chance after chance.

As far as profiles, name an attorney or judge you have plenty of reason to think little of and go find their online profile and all the talking up it has on it. What was that think in high school you could get in if you paid for it to be in some book of some top students or something? Kind of the like the super laywers status stuff and all that with attorneys and more.

Perhaps they are the nicest men and lost their way I have no idea. Maybe Gull is the bad one I have no idea. Maybe Allen is innocent. Who knows. I base an "opinion" on what I have seen. We are allowed one aren't we?

Someone stuck up for Gull back in this thread with her history and how she should not be picked apart...

I will close with I mostly stay off of this thread and that can be shown by looking back as well. For more than one reason. I know when to and that is when what is being said is false when purported as fact rather than opinion for one. And there's another reason or two and one is that I can't go through the same POI of someone hashed over again and again and again and again and posting the same thing over and over to no end for months now. Rather than lash out out of frustration, I leave. Normally I humor but every one has the end of their rope even if it takes years. When I know I am sick of it and not amused, I leave.

Like now.

Maybe all these sides are very good people, who the heck knows. And were formerly esteemed. When I weigh it what I do see is not ONE THING Gull has done is not known or is secret. It ihas all been called out hasn't it? And we've known of pretty much ALL OF IT. We do not know the full b.s. the two defense attorneys have been up to though and it still continues to come out.

And when I see a major agenda or sense one, including in here and online and intelligent people falling for obvious things and forgetting what JUST went before, bells go off. News stations and such are understandable, the sensational was the confessions until and it took them a little time to scramble after weak reasons for the confessions the FM and sensationalistic O thing was filed and then to TOP it off the leak.

Man if I had time in life I would do a timetable because to me it is all so obvious.

Gulll gets trashed repeatedly but B & R can't be. They aren't defense attorneys in a widely watched case? She isn't the judge in one? RA isn't an arrested defendant with probable cause?

Again I don't know Gull, I am basing all on what I've seen and again also, maybe they all should go.

Maybe B & R are saints or they were but this case and their age, etc. made them lose their way and want the win and fame. I sure don't know.

I don't believe for a single moment it is about a deep and heartfelt love for RA and his family. Nope Was too far to even go see him.

I dont' have any problem staying out of here or off entirely for that matter or even for good, especially if an opinion is only allowed one way. A few others maybe should think about a breather too. And one should be made to take one and I don't mean the poster above who posted about the attorneys. Not at all. Most know who that is and most know who the next one would be.

I am a bit surprised about the emotional responses to the officials or attorneys in this case. It comes across as some do have a horse in the race and it is very personal and emotional.

What is emotional to me is two dead juvenile girls who seem to get lost in all this b.s. ALL of the time and their families having to watch this crap everywhere.

They are from IN. They probably know of the defense attorneys. What do THEY think of the leaks and fillings and more that has gone on? Does ANYONE care? Would you agree if they felt the same? I would assume they know as much if not more about any attorney or judge from their own state that others do and I'm sure they are not talking because of being advised not to but truly I wonder what they think.

I look at what we know, what I see and acts that are done by any side or a judge and I side with victims and their families or have bias towards victims no doubt who here we are as always get FORGOTTEN in it all.

I'm really sorry that's how I gauge things.

G'nite. Laundry done and will be cooking chicken tenders at midnight at this rate. Lol.
 
Rozzi and Baldwin are not bad lawyers, and I agree with Cuz, they are doing their jobs. Personally I don't know why they went to all the trouble to get put back on RA's case but for some reason they did. I don't know why they've went to all the trouble to fight this judge like they have but they did and they don't seem to be intimidated by her, that's a good thing imo.
I don't think what they did and are doing is for Allen, I think it's all for themselves.
 
Who were the three? If they arrived after 2.13 pm it would not matter because Libby's phone shows the abduction taking place at that time.
One of the three was described by Libby's father as an "older gentleman" who'd said he hadn't seen two girls but that there was "a couple" under the bridge.
I don't know when any of those three people arrived but I think it matters because it was stated in the arrest affidavit that no one saw Allen or the girls after 2:13.
 
The way I read it was no devices at the hearing. So they CAN have them in the spectator section? I'm not sure what good that is?
They can have them at court but not in the well of the court. So they will presumably need hard copies for reference. I cannot believe they would not be familiar with this practice.
 
One of the three was described by Libby's father as an "older gentleman" who'd said he hadn't seen two girls but that there was "a couple" under the bridge.
I don't know when any of those three people arrived but I think it matters because it was stated in the arrest affidavit that no one saw Allen or the girls after 2:13.
Oh yes FSG -- Flannel Shirt Guy. If he was seen by Libby's Dad, that would be around 3.30 so quite some time after the kidnapping at 2.13 .
 
I don't know that but if and when they ever do, they should be sanctioned.
I am not aware of any cases where leaks have happened in contravention of a gag order apart from this one. It is clearly contempt of court and caused a suicide.

Does anyone know of specific cases where this has happened before?
 
Oh yes FSG -- Flannel Shirt Guy. If he was seen by Libby's Dad, that would be around 3.30 so quite some time after the kidnapping at 2.13 .
Lol, Flannel Shirt Guy?! Ok, whomever he was, apparently, he was older that Libby's father.
Yeah, info (from Libby's grandparents in discussion with Gray Hughes) is that Libby's father arrived at the trailhead at about 3:15 and the first person he came across was an "older gentleman".
 
Lol, Flannel Shirt Guy?! Ok, whomever he was, apparently, he was older that Libby's father.
Yeah, info (from Libby's grandparents in discussion with Gray Hughes) is that Libby's father arrived at the trailhead at about 3:15 and the first person he came across was an "older gentleman".
I swear he's been identified. I'll try to find that. I want to say he was actually working.

David McCain?
 
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I don't need to. They are not accused of anything by the prosecution.

That means nothing. My brother is one of the most conservative people I know and all his life (He's 63) he has scoffed at people claiming they're being framed or innocent because somebody else did it.

He just started listening to a podcast that talks about a lot of people who've been wrongly convicted. They'll talk to the victim of the crime, the guy who was falsely convicted, the police (If they're willing to talk) The prosecutor (If they're willing to talk) and the hosts go through the entire case. What led the police to arrest them, what led a jury to convict them, what the police or prosecution did wrong.

I already knew this, but I found it surprising that my brother was finally believing it. He said that the police or prosecutors who did talk, said they were positive they got the right guy. Even when DNA evidence is solid.

We went to breakfast this morning and he said his opinion of the justice system has been greatly influenced by these real life stories. He said that the most common reason somebody gets convicted is tunnel vision. The police will get a suspect in mind and just ignore anything that points to someone else. They are so sure they're right they won't investigate anyone else, even if it's the guy who actually did it. His faith in our justice system has been greatly shaken.

Many people believe that eyewitness testimony is the most reliable testimony someone can give. In actuality it's the least reliable testimony that can be given.


There was a documentary on this very subject I saw years ago. When DNA was first being used to exonerate or confirm convictions a man who'd been wrongly accused of rape had been set free due to DNA evidence. The victim, upon finding out she had misidentified the man broke down in to tears. She really thought he was the guy, and felt so guilty for having given the evidence that convicted the man, who'd spent a lot of time behind bars. Interestingly. That case is talked about in the following videos. It might be where I first saw this story.






In this case, there is no fingerprint evidence, or DNA pointing to RA. There is DNA and fingerprint evidence, but it points to some unknown person and nobody cares. RA did it, who cares about any exculpatory evidence. The girls saw him there. Well, we know eyewitness testimony is very weak. So if I'm on a jury, I wouldn't even consider it. They'd never seen him before. If somebody knows someone VERY well, I'd be more inclined to believe it.

There is so little actual evidence to convict RA, but AFAIK they haven't tested the DNA or put it through the national database. They haven't run the fingerprints through the national database either. I don't know that for a fact, but I suspect they haven't even done it. Why? They have the right guy.

Under one of the videos I've been watching about this case I saw a surprising number of people who think RA is innocent. One responder said that they live in that area, and that BG is wearing clothing that 90% of the residents of Delphi own.

Don't ignore the fingerprints and DNA. That's the guy who did it, with 99.999999% probability, and it's not RA's.
 
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Under one of the videos I've been watching about this case I saw a surprising number of people who think RA is innocent. One responder said that they live in that area, and that BG is wearing clothing that 90% of the residents of Delphi own.
But info is that Allen was the only adult male seen on the trail who was wearing clothing like that.
Btw, he wore both a hood over his head and a cap, which seems a bit much, wouldn't you say? Surely, I think is part of the reason one of the girls described him as "creepy".
 
That means nothing. My brother is one of the most conservative people I know and all his life (He's 63) he has scoffed at people claiming they're being framed or innocent because somebody else did it.

He just started listening to a podcast that talks about a lot of people who've been wrongly convicted. They'll talk to the victim of the crime, the guy who was falsely convicted, the police (If they're willing to talk) The prosecutor (If they're willing to talk) and the hosts go through the entire case. What led the police to arrest them, what led a jury to convict them, what the police or prosecution did wrong.

I already knew this, but I found it surprising that my brother was finally believing it. He said that the police or prosecutors who did talk, said they were positive they got the right guy. Even when DNA evidence is solid.

We went to breakfast this morning and he said his opinion of the justice system has been greatly influenced by these real life stories. He said that the most common reason somebody gets convicted is tunnel vision. The police will get a suspect in mind and just ignore anything that points to someone else. They are so sure they're right they won't investigate anyone else, even if it's the guy who actually did it. His faith in our justice system has been greatly shaken.

Many people believe that eyewitness testimony is the most reliable testimony someone can give. In actuality it's the least reliable testimony that can be given.


There was a documentary on this very subject I saw years ago. When DNA was first being used to exonerate or confirm convictions a man who'd been wrongly accused of rape had been set free due to DNA evidence. The victim, upon finding out she had misidentified the man broke down in to tears. She really thought he was the guy, and felt so guilty for having given the evidence that convicted the man, who'd spent a lot of time behind bars. Interestingly. That case is talked about in the following videos. It might be where I first saw this story.






In this case, there is no fingerprint evidence, or DNA pointing to RA. There is DNA and fingerprint evidence, but it points to some unknown person and nobody cares. RA did it, who cares about any exculpatory evidence. The girls saw him there. Well, we know eyewitness testimony is very weak. So if I'm on a jury, I wouldn't even consider it. They'd never seen him before. If somebody knows someone VERY well, I'd be more inclined to believe it.

There is so little actual evidence to convict RA, but AFAIK they haven't tested the DNA or put it through the national database. They haven't run the fingerprints through the national database either. I don't know that for a fact, but I suspect they haven't even done it. Why? They have the right guy.

Under one of the videos I've been watching about this case I saw a surprising number of people who think RA is innocent. One responder said that they live in that area, and that BG is wearing clothing that 90% of the residents of Delphi own.

Don't ignore the fingerprints and DNA. That's the guy who did it, with 99.999999% probability, and it's not RA's.

None of this applies here. He was there and admits it, he was seen and admits he saw those 3 at Freedom Bridge and the time fits. He even admits he was on the bridge. He is on video. His car is on video, his bullet is at the scene. He confessed 5 times. Bingo.

Yes there are wrongful convictions but this is not one of them.

Where is your link for the fact you state about the DNA and prints not being his? What about the bullet?
 
The only claims of no certain evidence comes from the defense that people who think they know the entire case buy up like it is the whole case. Now the defense is whining about discovery with evidence they never knew of. Yet people cite defense filings as if it means everythhing.

Also I have trouble doing this is it is not the normal way for our brains to go, look at what IS NOT said about what prosecution doesn't have. By the defense. What is missing. Do they say ther eare no photos? No items? Do they talk of wife interviews and what she may have said about that day? What do they avoid?

What is their yelling now about new evidence they were not aware of? And if anyone believes they put in all the evidence they WERE aware of into their filings, I despair for them. Of course they didn't, just the things that benefit them. And the other side doesn't file and share with the public even in response. Responsibly so.

Saw the last two posts and was going to stay out but leaving now.

At least they weren't on RL lol.
 
I just watched this and she nails all the points we have discussed, the cat hair DNA, the RL girlfriend accusations, the abhorrent leaking of the girls' crime scene photos, the Odin memo, the confessions, the bullet etc etc. Well worth watching/listening. 48 minutes - I have got to 41 minutes so far.

 

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