LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I just watched this and she nails all the points we have discussed, the cat hair DNA, the RL girlfriend accusations, the abhorrent leaking of the girls' crime scene photos, the Odin memo, the confessions, the bullet etc etc. Well worth watching/listening. 48 minutes - I have got to 41 minutes so far.

Nancy makes some real suppositions. Allen cocked his gun to scare the girls? How does she know that. She doesn't mention that the crime scene was secured and the bullet wasn't found. It was found two days later after the crime scene had been re-secured. For two days the crime scene was left unsecured.

Her expert says his property was searched twice, without mentioning the strict confines of the search areas.

Nancy also says RLs alibi checked out. Her guest has to tell her that RL's alibi did not check out. Nancy isn't very aware about this case.

How were they dressed for burial? What the hell does that have to do with anything. We know there throats were cut. Scarves around their necks isn't anything surprising. The expert says they were "most likely" sexually assaulted. I've heard that there was no sexual assault. I forget where, but I thought it was common knowledge.

Nancy is told that there is no DNA evidence that goes back to the prime suspect. It doesn't phase her. Her expert says he believes the bodies were checked much more thoroughly than just nail scrapings.

About the cat hair she says they exhumed the cat to match it to cat hair found on the bodies. She never says there was a match.

One expert says the unspent bullet is the most damning evidence and the confessions.

Nancy: Why are people spouting off something that's harmful to the states case? (Really? You don't know why people would be offering evidence that would harm the states case? Maybe he's innocent and they are pointing out problems with the states case.)

This is so uninformed I can't watch the whole thing.

 

[Tresir]

Nancy makes some real suppositions. Allen cocked his gun to scare the girls? How does she know that. She doesn't mention that the crime scene was secured and the bullet wasn't found. It was found two days later after the crime scene had been re-secured. For two days the crime scene was left unsecured.

Her expert says his property was searched twice, without mentioning the strict confines of the search areas.

Nancy also says RLs alibi checked out. Her guest has to tell her that RL's alibi did not check out. Nancy isn't very aware about this case.

How were they dressed for burial? What the hell does that have to do with anything. We know there throats were cut. Scarves around their necks isn't anything surprising. The expert says they were "most likely" sexually assaulted. I've heard that there was no sexual assault. I forget where, but I thought it was common knowledge.

Nancy is told that there is no DNA evidence that goes back to the prime suspect. It doesn't phase her. Her expert says he believes the bodies were checked much more thoroughly than just nail scrapings.

About the cat hair she says they exhumed the cat to match it to cat hair found on the bodies. She never says there was a match.

One expert says the unspent bullet is the most damning evidence and the confessions.

Nancy: Why are people spouting off something that's harmful to the states case? (Really? You don't know why people would be offering evidence that would harm the states case? Maybe he's innocent and they are pointing out problems with the states case.)

This is so uninformed I can't watch the whole thing.

We all know that about the bullet- that's how the bullet was ejected, by racking the gun. It could likely also be heard on the video along with the word "gun".

She's right about trying to harm the prosecution case. It's called tainting the jury pool. Hopefully using the Allen County jury will solve that defence tactic.

Barb McDonald was one of her guests and did not even repeat that false claim, did you notice that?

Police say they have DNA. That would be his cat DNA. She did say it matched.

How much did you watch?

If you would rather not watch it that's fine too. But she makes good sense.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

We all know that about the bullet- that's how the bullet was ejected, by racking the gun. It could likely also be heard on the video along with the word "gun".

Barb McDonald was one of her guests and did not even repeat that false claim, did you notice that?

Police say they have DNA. That would be his cat DNA. She did say it matched.

How much did you watch?

If you would rather not watch it that's fine too. But she makes good sense.

Tell me where she says the cat DNA matches.

 

[Tresir]

Tell me where she says the cat DNA matches.

When she discusses the cat DNA. She says something like, how could someone plant cat DNA they would have to dig up his dead cat. How much did you watch? Eg up to what time stamp?

 

[Tresir]

That means nothing. My brother is one of the most conservative people I know and all his life (He's 63) he has scoffed at people claiming they're being framed or innocent because somebody else did it.

He just started listening to a podcast that talks about a lot of people who've been wrongly convicted. They'll talk to the victim of the crime, the guy who was falsely convicted, the police (If they're willing to talk) The prosecutor (If they're willing to talk) and the hosts go through the entire case. What led the police to arrest them, what led a jury to convict them, what the police or prosecution did wrong.

I already knew this, but I found it surprising that my brother was finally believing it. He said that the police or prosecutors who did talk, said they were positive they got the right guy. Even when DNA evidence is solid.

We went to breakfast this morning and he said his opinion of the justice system has been greatly influenced by these real life stories. He said that the most common reason somebody gets convicted is tunnel vision. The police will get a suspect in mind and just ignore anything that points to someone else. They are so sure they're right they won't investigate anyone else, even if it's the guy who actually did it. His faith in our justice system has been greatly shaken.

Many people believe that eyewitness testimony is the most reliable testimony someone can give. In actuality it's the least reliable testimony that can be given.

https://www.science.org/content/article/how-reliable-eyewitness-testimony-scientists-weigh

There was a documentary on this very subject I saw years ago. When DNA was first being used to exonerate or confirm convictions a man who'd been wrongly accused of rape had been set free due to DNA evidence. The victim, upon finding out she had misidentified the man broke down in to tears. She really thought he was the guy, and felt so guilty for having given the evidence that convicted the man, who'd spent a lot of time behind bars. Interestingly. That case is talked about in the following videos. It might be where I first saw this story.






In this case, there is no fingerprint evidence, or DNA pointing to RA. There is DNA and fingerprint evidence, but it points to some unknown person and nobody cares. RA did it, who cares about any exculpatory evidence. The girls saw him there. Well, we know eyewitness testimony is very weak. So if I'm on a jury, I wouldn't even consider it. They'd never seen him before. If somebody knows someone VERY well, I'd be more inclined to believe it.

There is so little actual evidence to convict RA, but AFAIK they haven't tested the DNA or put it through the national database. They haven't run the fingerprints through the national database either. I don't know that for a fact, but I suspect they haven't even done it. Why? They have the right guy.

Under one of the videos I've been watching about this case I saw a surprising number of people who think RA is innocent. One responder said that they live in that area, and that BG is wearing clothing that 90% of the residents of Delphi own.

Don't ignore the fingerprints and DNA. That's the guy who did it, with 99.999999% probability, and it's not RA's.

Everyone in prison is innocent and framed. Surely you know that right?

Cat DNA is not in a national database AFAIK.

Also, where did you read there is no fingerprint evidence? Won't his fingerprints be on the racked bullet?

So there  is DNA (cat) and fingerprints (on the bullet). Slam dunk.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

When she discusses the cat DNA. She says something like, how could someone plant cat DNA they would have to dig up his dead cat. How much did you watch? Eg up to what time stamp?

35 minutes. I heard about the cat DNA being dug up, but nothing about a match. Nancy doesn't know much about this case. I'd be embarrassed if I was her.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Everyone in prison is innocent and framed. Surely you know that right?

Cat DNA is not in a national database AFAIK.

Also, where did you read there is no fingerprint evidence? Won't his fingerprints be on the racked bullet?

So there  is DNA (cat) and fingerprints (on the bullet). Slam dunk.

No, there ARE fingerprints. They don't match RA's. Same with the DNA, there is DNA and it doesn't match RA's. Don't you want to know who's it is?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

The more I watch other cases unfolding and how the police are releasing information. It makes me wonder why they are so tight lipped here. My guess is they have nothing to talk about, except stuff that might exonerate him.

 

[Tresir]

35 minutes. I heard about the cat DNA being dug up, but nothing about a match. Nancy doesn't know much about this case. I'd be embarrassed if I was her.

She's clearly not embarrassed and is probably the most experienced crime commentator out there. You probably prefer Barb McD and her wild accusations about the insecure crime scene.

 

[Tresir]

The more I watch other cases unfolding and how the police are releasing information. It makes me wonder why they are so tight lipped here. My guess is they have nothing to talk about, except stuff that might exonerate him.

There's a gag order on this one. To protect the victims and the family. Which everyone except the dang defence lawyers are honouring.

They are in contempt because of it.

 

[Tresir]

No, there ARE fingerprints. They don't match RA's. Same with the DNA, there is DNA and it doesn't match RA's. Don't you want to know who's it is?

Give us a link saying there are fingerprints that are not those of the accused. I've seen the Tobe link saying there is DNA and fingerprints but that was before they had RA in custody so at that point it would have been unidentified as RA has no criminal record.

Can you imagine LE knowing they have that evidence for all these years? In fact, the fingerprints are probably how they have discounted RL.

If you only have the Tobe interview and in the absence of any other link about the fingerprints, then you can't possibly know they are not RA's.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

She's clearly not embarrassed and is probably the most experienced crime commentator out there. You probably prefer Barb McD and her wild accusations about the insecure crime scene.

She's been great on some trials, not this one.

She says that RA was crying on the phone to his mother when he confessed. How does she know that? Those calls have never been released.

I listened to the rest of the video. Never do they say the DNA from the cat matched. Just that the cat was exhumed to compare DNA. So what.

Give us a link saying there are fingerprints that are not those of the accused. I've seen the Tobe link saying there is DNA and fingerprints but that was before they had RA in custody so at that point it would have been unidentified as RA has no criminal record.

Can you imagine LE knowing they have that evidence for all these years? In fact, the fingerprints are probably how they have discounted RL.

I've given several links. Most of them are videos you probably ignored. I'm not gonna look for them. Go back through the thread and you'll find them.

 

[RoundPeg]

I can't remember. Is a dead cat on the search warrant inventory?

 

[Tresir]

I can't remember. Is a dead cat on the search warrant inventory?

I don't remember either, but I guess it would be listed as a dead cat, or remains from the garden rather than dead cat DNA. I know there were a lot of things on there so I don't remember them all.

 

[Tresir]

She's been great on some trials, not this one.

She says that RA was crying on the phone to his mother when he confessed. How does she know that? Those calls have never been released.

I listened to the rest of the video. Never do they say the DNA from the cat matched. Just that the cat was exhumed to compare DNA. So what.



I've given several links. Most of them are videos you probably ignored. I'm not gonna look for them. Go back through the thread and you'll find them.

I've answered you about her comment but you won't answer me about what I asked so don't bother asking me anything else if you are just going to be rude as I will not be answering you anymore

I only remember your Tobe link and I am certainly not looking thru all your posts. I'll just consider it not proven, which is what I thought anyway.

IMO they have RA finger prints on the bullet and his cat DNA on the girls.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I've answered you about her comment but you won't answer me about what I asked so don't bother asking me anything else if you are just going to be rude as I will not be answering you anymore

I only remember your Tobe link and I am certainly not looking thru all your posts. I'll just consider it not proven, which is what I thought anyway.

IMO they have RA finger prints on the bullet and his cat DNA on the girls.

I didn't mean to be rude. I'm just tired of showing things and nobody bothers to check what I've posted. There are no DNA or fingerprint matches for RA. Including cat DNA. Also, the crime scene was secured for a day or two while they searched for evidence. Then they released the crime scene. They went back two days later and re-secured the crime scene. It was that time they found the unspent bullet and it was pressed into the ground. Having the crime scene unsecured for two days should, in an honorable court of law, have any evidence found the second time around thrown out from the trial. I'm sure the defense will make a big deal about that during the trial. Gull isn't going to throw out the unspent bullet, no matter how hinky it is. They combed that crime scene thoroughly the first time, but missed it somehow.

 

[Tresir]

Here is some info about his mental evaluations, while in jail. He confessed 5 times altogether and would wet down his paperwork and eat it.

Delphi double murder suspect allegedly confessed several times in jail call with wife

Delphi, Indiana, double murder suspect Richard Allen allegedly confessed to the killings several times.

abc7news.com

The document was filed April 20 by the prosecutor requesting to obtain Allen's mental health records during his time as an inmate, as well as video and logs that recorded his behavior to refute defense claims regarding the Westville Correctional Facility.


"Soon after" that call with his wife, Allen's attorneys filed an emergency motion saying his mental state had declined and he should be moved, alleging Westville Correctional Facility was unfit, the document said.

Allen was refusing to eat, refusing to sleep and "was wetting down paperwork he had gotten from his attorneys and eating it," the document said.

Allen broke the tablet he used for phone calls, the document said, and went from making two phone calls a day to making no calls.

Defense attorneys did not immediately respond to ABC News' request for comment on Wednesday. But at a June 15 court hearing, defense attorneys said any confessions made by Allen are unreliable due to his deteriorating mental and physical health.

On April 14, Allen was evaluated by two psychiatrists and a psychologist to see if he needed involuntary medication or to be moved to a different unit, the document said, and they determined Allen didn't need involuntary medication and didn't need to be moved. After that meeting, Allen started eating and sleeping again and his behavior "began to return to what it was prior to making the admission on April 3," the document said.


Allen has pleaded not guilty to the two murders. According to court documents, Allen admitted to police to being on the trail that day but deniedany involvement in the girls' murders.

Allen's trial has been scheduled for January 2024.

In a document filed by the prosecutor on June 13, in another effort to obtain Allen's mental health records, the prosecution alleged that Allen admitted to the killings "no less than 5 times while talking to his wife and his mother on the public jail phones."

The April 20 document filed by the prosecutor also noted that "investigators believe they hear the sound of a gun being cycled" on the video recovered from Libby's phone.

According to video recovered from one of the victim's phones, Abby or Libby mentioned "gun" as a man approached them, according to the probable cause affidavit. A .40-caliber unspent round was found less than 2 feet away from one of the girls' bodies, and that unspent round went through a gun that Allen owns, according to the probable cause affidavit.


Another document released Wednesday mentions the involvement of a knife in the killings.

Authorities believe a gun was used in the girls' abduction and murders due to the unspent round found by their bodies, the prosecutor said, and authorities believe a "knife was used in the murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German."

This document was filed June 13, objecting to the defense's motion to suppress evidence seized in a search warrant at Allen's home.

The June 13 document filed by the state objecting to the defense's motion to suppress also notes "articles of clothing from the girls were missing from the scene" where their bodies were found, "including a pair of underwear and a sock."

Bumping this as it has details about the confessions, the sound of the gun being cycled, missing items of clothing, a knife being used, unspent round linked to RA's gun, Abby or Libby mentioning 'gun', the details of RA's mental health breakdown and when the prosecution was refused access to RA's mental health records.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Bumping this as it has details about the confessions, the sound of the gun being cycled, missing items of clothing, a knife being used, unspent round linked to RA's gun, Abby or Libby mentioning 'gun', the details of RA's mental health breakdown and when the prosecution was refused access to RA's mental health records.

So he confessed to two people. Nobody else except those two. The Odinist guards tased him twice for not following directions. I'd like to know what the proximity to his being tased was to those two phone calls.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Bumping this as it has details about the confessions, the sound of the gun being cycled, missing items of clothing, a knife being used, unspent round linked to RA's gun, Abby or Libby mentioning 'gun', the details of RA's mental health breakdown and when the prosecution was refused access to RA's mental health records.

The defense is under no obligation to give the prosecution anything. The prosecution has to supply everything they have to the defense.

 

[Tresir]

FWIW, Abby had a burner, unbeknownst to her mom. I don't have the link ... but IIRC we saw this confirmed by Barb McDonald in her documentary DTH.

Another item from Barb McD according to @Olenna. Has anyone heard about this alleged burner phone.