LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Tresir]

Several sources have mentioned the DNA/Cat DNA, so until it gets to court, we will have to wait and see what all these people mean when they say there is DNA from the scene.

The search warrant and articles don't say whether LE took RA's and his wife's DNA, but I am sure they did.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Yeah. I am not thinking there is nothing to the cat hair thing. Not at all. It is definitely a wait and see. And the fact they were looking at an animal hair thing re RL is interesting.

Waht we do know or most at least do is we do not know all the evidence and most of what is known comes from defense who is never going to put out anything detrimental to their client but will omit it. And to be fair there have been some depositions with answers to what the particular person knew at the time as to investigators and so on. I would point out the "at that time" and as to "who" was being asked.

Did they not ask about his wife and daugther and his day? Or did they just omit that in their filings? Did they not ask about his work schedule? Or just omit that in their filings? Did they not ask about what work had to say? Or just omit that in their filings. Did they ask what all was pulled from Allen and if any of it led to evidence for the prosecution and what it was? Or just omit that in their filings? Did they ask if all had been tested yet or some had not had results returned yet? Or just omit that in their filings?

I do know they need time again with a lot of new discovery apparently they did not have and more EVIDENCE and have said as much.

Thee is so much unknown here because prosecution isn't leaking although they'd probably love to put it in their face with wht they are doing to public views intentionally despite a gag order. Defense gets out what they want to through whatever dirty means necessary but they only of course put out what helps them and stay away from what doesn't.

 

[Tresir]

Yeah. I am not thinking there is nothing to the cat hair thing. Not at all. It is definitely a wait and see. And the fact they were looking at an animal hair thing re RL is interesting.

Waht we do know or most at least do is we do not know all the evidence and most of what is known comes from defense who is never going to put out anything detrimental to their client but will omit it. And to be fair there have been some depositions with answers to what the particular person knew at the time as to investigators and so on. I would point out the "at that time" and as to "who" was being asked.

Did they not ask about his wife and daugther and his day? Or did they just omit that in their filings? Did they not ask about his work schedule? Or just omit that in their filings? Did they not ask about what work had to say? Or just omit that in their filings. Did they ask what all was pulled from Allen and if any of it led to evidence for the prosecution and what it was? Or just omit that in their filings? Did they ask if all had been tested yet or some had not had results returned yet? Or just omit that in their filings?

I do know they need time again with a lot of new discovery apparently they did not have and more EVIDENCE and have said as much.

Thee is so much unknown here because prosecution isn't leaking although they'd probably love to put it in their face with wht they are doing to public views intentionally despite a gag order. Defense gets out what they want to through whatever dirty means necessary but they only of course put out what helps them and stay away from what doesn't.

They requested his work records from CVS. I saw it today in the big bunch of documents that was released some time ago. I'll link it here but it is over 250 pages.

Judge unseals more than 100 documents related to Delphi Murders Trial, including Richard Allen's 'admissions'

This morning, Special Judge Fran Gull, who is overseeing the Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen, unsealed numerous documents relating to the case.

www.wrtv.com

 

[Tresir]

This is concerning.

Delphi man met two teens on Snapchat then took them to woods

Man was caught just over one mile from entrance to Monon High Bridge Trail – where Libby German and Abby Williams were killed seven years ago

www.independent.co.uk

 

[GrandmaBear]

They requested his work records from CVS. I saw it today in the big bunch of documents that was released some time ago. I'll link it here but it is over 250 pages.

Judge unseals more than 100 documents related to Delphi Murders Trial, including Richard Allen's 'admissions'

This morning, Special Judge Fran Gull, who is overseeing the Delphi Murders trial of Richard Allen, unsealed numerous documents relating to the case.

www.wrtv.com

Thank you. Not going to get time for that. So for anyone who has read them all as some here say they do, what if anything do work records show for hours and such on that day, day before and day after? What do coworkers say about that day? Was he even scheduled or was it a requested or normal day of the week off? I used to be one who went with only the docs and took the time to read them all, just can't these days. Even then it was hard.

I used to access DOJ docs and more, not even on cases but because they show what is going on big time in our nation that isn't reported on at all by news.

Anyhow, not asking anyone to read but assuming some have, why hasn't it been said what they show?

Can't stick around and have largely dropped this thread anyhow and am taking a wait and see on this case other than when something new 'allegedly" pops up., as I did the other night listening to one on the incident report with RL and the cat hair. And listening to someone who gives the reasonst that RL being BG just is beyond likely. And that's enough for me at the moment. We'd all like more of course.

Something that is really interesting about this case is that no one talks. Meaning no coworkers are coming out, no friends, no somebodies who knewk the Allens when they lived in that other nearby town, worked elsewhere and so on. I think that says something about the area and the case. Usually you will get one rando or two who met someone once or worked with him once that will go public for the attention because they can say, hey I smoked some pot on break with him once or had a beer with him once so I dig the guy.

It is very serious and buttoned up. Except for the defense. I would have to think it is because all want justice for the girls. Period.

 

[Tresir]

Thank you. Not going to get time for that. So for anyone who has read them all as some here say they do, what if anything do work records show for hours and such on that day, day before and day after? What do coworkers say about that day? Was he even scheduled or was it a requested or normal day of the week off? I used to be one who went with only the docs and took the time to read them all, just can't these days. Even then it was hard.

I used to access DOJ docs and more, not even on cases but because they show what is going on big time in our nation that isn't reported on at all by news.

Anyhow, not asking anyone to read but assuming some have, why hasn't it been said what they show?

Can't stick around and have largely dropped this thread anyhow and am taking a wait and see on this case other than when something new 'allegedly" pops up., as I did the other night listening to one on the incident report with RL and the cat hair. And listening to someone who gives the reasonst that RL being BG just is beyond likely. And that's enough for me at the moment. We'd all like more of course.

Something that is really interesting about this case is that no one talks. Meaning no coworkers are coming out, no friends, no somebodies who knewk the Allens when they lived in that other nearby town, worked elsewhere and so on. I think that says something about the area and the case. Usually you will get one rando or two who met someone once or worked with him once that will go public for the attention because they can say, hey I smoked some pot on break with him once or had a beer with him once so I dig the guy.

It is very serious and buttoned up. Except for the defense. I would have to think it is because all want justice for the girls. Period.

This shows only the request to CVS, not their response. Not sure when we are likely to see that, if ever, as he has already twice admitted he was on the trail and the bridge.

 

[GrandmaBear]

This shows only the request to CVS, not their response. Not sure when we are likely to see that, if ever, as he has already twice admitted he was on the trail and the bridge.

Then that rings a bell with what I thought we knew before. Nothing. So it does not give work records just a request or subpoena?

I don't think it matters if he admitted to being on the trail, it does matter if he left work and was to go back like say after lunch hour and never returned, never went in, asked for day off, etc.

I googled CVS this morning and all of ours around here interestingly the pharm closes for lunch from 1:30 to 2:00. CLOSES. Of course I recently heard he was not active pharm tech but shift supervisor... I never knew a store pharm CLOSED for lunch during the day, they are soo busy they could be 24/7. I found this a bit interesting. If I was someone who used CVS or had meds to pick up at any pharmacy maybe I'd know they do such a thing but it was news to me.

I find it interesting because the girls got to the trails at 2 and there is a likelihood Allen was already there and if lunch was at 1:30...To 2 p.m. and he never clocked back in....

 

[Tresir]

Then that rings a bell with what I thought we knew before. Nothing. So it does not give work records just a request or subpoena?

I don't think it matters if he admitted to being on the trail, it does matter if he left work and was to go back like say after lunch hour and never returned, never went in, asked for day off, etc.

I googled CVS this morning and all of ours around here interestingly the pharm closes for lunch from 1:30 to 2:00. CLOSES. Of course I recently heard he was not active pharm tech but shift supervisor... I never knew a store pharm CLOSED for lunch during the day, they are soo busy they could be 24/7. I found this a bit interesting. If I was someone who used CVS or had meds to pick up at any pharmacy maybe I'd know they do such a thing but it was news to me.

I find it interesting because the girls got to the trails at 2 and there is a likelihood Allen was already there and if lunch was at 1:30...To 2 p.m. and he never clocked back in....

Monday could also be his regular day off if he works Saturdays. I used to work Tuesdays to Saturdays with my stock control job. Saturdays were quiet and we printed the weekly price catalogues and the outgoing deliveries and invoice paperwork for the upcoming week.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

This is concerning.

Delphi man met two teens on Snapchat then took them to woods

Man was caught just over one mile from entrance to Monon High Bridge Trail – where Libby German and Abby Williams were killed seven years ago

www.independent.co.uk

I wonder if HIS fingerprints and DNA match the Delphi crime scene?

 

[RoundPeg]

I wonder if HIS fingerprints and DNA match the Delphi crime scene?

You realize he would have been roughly 17 then?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Monday could also be his regular day off if he works Saturdays. I used to work Tuesdays to Saturdays with my stock control job. Saturdays were quiet and we printed the weekly price catalogues and the outgoing deliveries and invoice paperwork for the upcoming week.

Could very well be. Good point. Wish we knew this "minor" shi*t about his day, if scheduled and so on. My weekend is Thursdays and Fridays. Not uncommon in retail as CVS would be. Higher pay for me on weekends and I don't care if my weekend is on the weekend. Not like I go out on Sat. nights or anything lol.

I don't see why anyone would necessarily think the alleged DNA and fingerprints belong to the same person either, that they know results or that they even are necessarily of grave importance depending on where found. Meaning for instance DNA could be on a beer can that can't be proven to have been there one day or a month and fingerprint could be on the bullet. Or any alternative scenario, who knows.

Also defense who tried to appear so on top of all and want a speedy trial is now anything but. I'm not buying anything at this point.

Finally the warrant request for RL was as embellished or polished as it could get. They needed and wanted a warrant and so you direct it as much as possible at hime so he is the suspect.

It's realy kind of sad that he was worried that he had guns and wanted to get through his probation wich was almost through and worry how cluttered and bad his home looked. He shared that with an officer privately and then that officer used it to provdie reason for a warrant. Assuming he had nothing to do with the girls, he did not ask to be put in this situation next door to him. He certainly was no model citizen or abiding by his bond terms but that is a far cry from a double murderer. The proximity he didn't choose but his unforunate lies and failure to abide by law//bond terms put him i the cross hairs.

I watched his gf last night was it? Not buying it. I can believe or not, either way that what she says happened in their relationship and how he treated her MAY be true but it couild be untrue as well and what does it say about her was her reason for sticking with him for all those years? Why, if he treated her so bad? Becuase he had property or money? Seriously what was her reason? Because she stays for abuse and control? It is really interesting her timing too when everyone and their kids are trying to throw shade and exonerate Allen like there is some agenda that is working for the ones leading it all over the 'net and more.

I find it remarkable that almost no one in that town or area has spoken up or out about this case, about knowing Allen, Kline or ANYTHING about ANYTHING, but here she is all of a sudden insisting BG is RL. Imo she wants attn, dollars and has/had an axe to grind.

And WHY is it she never reported what he allegedly did to her to LE? And if she got STAPLES why did the doctor not report it?

Even if THAT is true it has nothing to do with this case. And what did she say he treated her like, a sex slave? And she couldn't even lay down on the couth and had to keep house and such? Wow. If she wants to get out there, that's fair game and I'd sure like to know her life history, job record, dating record and more.

Not too many months ago, I did not defend RL and I still don't, he landed in unfortunate circumstances as this happened near home and because he was not living per his conditions, he lied.

If there were a missing child anywhere, we'd wonder why anyone in the neighborhood wouldn't let cops in an amergency search their home. However if you didn't live a legal life and had a line of coke on your coffee table, owned a gun you weren't supposed to and had someone else's wife in your home, you wouldn't want them in there now would you? Unless you had a written guarantee it was to see the child was not there and nothing more no matter what would result from it.

RL was doing no harm but kept firearms and drove when he was not to be driving and this landed on his doorstep. Imo.

I never rule anything or anyone out entirely but do go odds on and odds are off he was part of this imo.

I am not going to rule out the slight possibility becuase if these girls were taken there and the time frame changes as to when they actually died and were placed here, that changes things but there isn't much real reason to think that.

RL was also old enough and local enough that if he had some interest in young girls one would think there would have been some sign of it before that age. Or a pnechant for just impromptu attacks on young girls. This gf is no young thing. Some would maybe say the same about RA but it's different. He is of an era porn and child porn and more got big on the internet. Any kind of porn actually. RL is not of the same era. Nothing is positive of course but some things more likely than others.

I'd also doubt in this stage of life he all of a sudden developed an interest in becoming an Odinist, or a pedophile.

 

[GrandmaBear]

As to the other thing, they were smoking pot and not a hint of anything else that relates. Libby and Abby were told to get down the hill, no hint of BG saying hey come hang out and somke some pot with me. Something years after the fact, like that, is supposed to relate?

I do agree with LE in parents better try to keep up with what their kids are doing, who they are talking to and how old they are portraying selves to be, etc.

In here more than intended and didn't really desire to be. Even so read and saw very few posts. This is going to be one mess of a case with a lot of blizzards put out there until its end. See ya all.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

You realize he would have been roughly 17 then?

Meh, why not check?

 

[RoundPeg]

Meh, why not check?

IMO, they would need to establish something to tie him to this particular crime in order to test DNA and fingerprints.

Why frame a 17 year old?

 

[Regina]

I don't think it deserves much weight when we have absolutely no idea where such was found or on what nor what type of DNA.

The only thing I remember re DNA in this case is how vague LE was re whether there was any.

What I watched recently had something perhaps I'd heard before but I don't think so. If so, it never really stuck. RA was a shift supervisor not a pharm tech. He had to get the pharm tech license to be able to pull the tills, etc. in the pharmacy and to be shift supervisor and even go in the pharmacy. He was not an active pharm working tech for the most part and
I think it was said he would be like 3 or more down as to someone who would if he did at all.

His position at CVS has never been clear to me but what do you think of the LE having collected 10 pairs of gloves from his home?
I mean, I'm not sure what to make of LE having collecting them but if they're all his, that strikes me a lot gloves for one person.

 

[Regina]

This is concerning.

Delphi man met two teens on Snapchat then took them to woods

Man was caught just over one mile from entrance to Monon High Bridge Trail – where Libby German and Abby Williams were killed seven years ago

www.independent.co.uk

That scenario is nothing like what happened in this murder case!
That's an entirely different scenario and I see nothing even remarkable about it.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The only thing I remember re DNA in this case is how vague LE was re whether there was any.


His position at CVS has never been clear to me but what do you think of the LE having collected 10 pairs of gloves from his home?
I mean, I'm not sure what to make of LE having collecting them but if they're all his, that strikes me a lot gloves for one person.

Yah, Carter always talked weird about it. He'd never say they didn't have any but he wouldn't say what kind they did have either and half the time not even say they did have any. It was always frustrating and I always figured it was to keep the perp wondering what they had and where he left it and to worry him. I recall maybe a year plus ro two ago (before RA's arreset), Abby's mom being asked about why not try a genetic thing with the DNA to find the perp and I figured she'd be all for it but she kind of was noncommitttal and thought they really didn't need to do that at that point, etc. Maybe some day or something like that but not "now" type of answer. THAT made me really wonder. The families had been waiting for YEARS for justice or an arrest and to know who did this and to me, you'd think you'd want that or anything tried that might work/help.

You know, MAYBE it IS animal DNA. Never has that crossed my mind until hearing it on a show the other night but it sure would explain why they couldn't do the familial thing or wouldn't I should say and the vagueness about it. I often thought they even really didn't have any but wanted the perp to think they did... Who knows...

Shift supervisor and more store employee makes a lot more sense to me and it fits in more with why he'd have been in the photo department and so on when Abby's family came in. I can think of where I work which is a far bigger retail store than a CVS and there are several departments but like in mine, the managers in each department know how to do everything all employees do there but they don't do such duties constantly or even much. I kind of have that picture with it. He did not work in the pharmacy but was licensed to do so so that he could enter, handle the cash and so on imo. He probably could cover if need be for a cashier, stocker, a photo lab person. Maybe also it was for backup if necessary, like if someone called in sick, that's just my guess, no idea. I've been in a CVS when there were literally two employees working, the pharmacist in the pharmacy and one clerk out in the store. Seriously. I remember thinking some punk could rob the place blind easily as I couldn't even find the clerk/cashier anywhere in the store and thought NO ONE there for several minutes. I forget what I stopped to buy but it was one item and I thought it would be an easy place to swing in fast and get out. It wasn't fast as I couldn't find an employiee in the store to check me out. And the place was not busy, it was a ghost town. I suspect though in Delphi it woiuld be probably most times as it is small town with probably not a ton of pharmacy or retail.

The gloves are interesting, I did not know that but then these days I really don't get to go through all docs. Was BG wearing gloves? He had his hands in his pockets... That is a TON of gloves for one man. I mean my dad and brothers would like buy a ten pack package of work gloves but 8 would remain in their package while dad for instance maybe had a pair in his truck and one in the home. He may grab another pair to say do some dirty job and then toss them. And maybe one pair of winter gloves if they even bothered to ever put such on. I am midwest and the guys in my famly did not wear gloves to like get in the car and drive somewhere on an errand. TEN is a LOT. Now if he emptied a ten pack of say work gloves into a bin and they didn't know which he had worn or used that's one thought. Also maybe with pharm tech and COVID perhaps he had several pair for work IF he was't shift supervisor and WAS pharm tech but maybe even just working iat CVS over and beyond COVID times necessitated gloves?

I can tell you where I work we sell a TON of gloves. The men in my family were not big glove wearers other than when doing outdoor work but I wouldn't say that is true of all. Gloves are a constant purchase by men, all types of gloves, where I work. All kinds. The driving gloves, the nitrile gloves, winter gloves (less so). It surprises me as not in my family. Maybe if you sn*wmobile, and do differnt things like that you'd have more and more types. I still don't think you'd have ten "active" pair. I guess he just could have had several pair found all over the home from over time? Some in a closet, some in the garage and so on?

Well didn't mean to do this, this is my trying to wake up post, first one lol so just kind of talking and waking up.

I think the defense will continue to be trouble and I think if we ever get to the point of trial or closer to it, there are some surprises we are going to findi the prosecution has. I could be wrong but they haven't show their whole hand whatsoever even in response to the defense's antics. They don't need to and whiel I WANT TO KNOW, they are wise not to lol. I don't 100 percent agree in this one though as letting a bit out I think would turn some in the public's opinion in a flash, some turn on a dime. What is going on right now is a total defense PR blizzard or has been and way too many fall for it easily hook. line and sinker. Imo.

Ten pair? Wow. But again was he wearing gloves? I can see the BG video in my head, we have all watched it so many times and I only see his hands in his pockets. I will say though that for a midwest man he was overdressed for a day like that. Does anyone see Abby and Libby in coats or hoods? it is almost considered weak to dress so warmly if a male on such a day. I am not kidding.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

IMO, they would need to establish something to tie him to this particular crime in order to test DNA and fingerprints.

Why frame a 17 year old?

I'm not suggesting to frame him. I'm suggesting to see if his fingerprints and DNA match those unidentified at the site.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

The only thing I remember re DNA in this case is how vague LE was re whether there was any.


His position at CVS has never been clear to me but what do you think of the LE having collected 10 pairs of gloves from his home?
I mean, I'm not sure what to make of LE having collecting them but if they're all his, that strikes me a lot gloves for one person.

Ten pairs is a lot. Were they just his, or his whole families?

 

[GrandmaBear]

The 17 year old didn't do it who years later met a couple girls and smoked some pot with them at a known teen hangout, etc. Imo.

And some think this department frames all people. In fact almost all defendants everywhere are framed.

As to gloves why would they want the wife's or daughter's? Did they take pink ones too and like long white wedding gloves and did he wear the same size? Maybe there was a pair from when the daughter was 6 with a string on them, maybe mittens, did they take those? I am guessing they were male gloves or all those thought to be his. At least that seems likely.

Lol.