LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

I also read the first three pages and have no desire to read more. I'll hold back on an opinion and the problems and smoke and mirrors in just that but as well as again their legal writing style whic is a bit better here than in the FM but still isn't nearly as succinct as most lawyers would have it no are citations, just "local rule". I can't imagine why it would need to be over three pages and certainly not 20 but I'll wait until Tom or the few who cover much these days read all of it and tell us. I think there's a real reason most have quit and it plays directly to the defense and who they gave info to and who they didn't who doesn't want to be blamed because one of those gave it to them or some such.

Believe me, I've said or pointed out nothing of what I think of even these first pages of the filing because even though I should be able to, people take it so personally one would think they know someone involved in the case.

I'll take a wait and see but I was waiting to see on the ex parte thing and instead they do this lol. What happened to the other deal? I WANT to know. I think they failed to label it in caps and appropriately myself. PER the court order which they should know by heart and should have read back in the beginning of the case.

I'll leave it at that. May be wrong. Have a lot to point out on the three pages of their filing, but I'll leave that alone too and not discuss it here which I pretty much haven't been doing for some time now anyhow. Months. Just here and there mostly not in here at all.

See yas. Waiting for the outcome on much just like all, and more info. I'll change my opinions if I ever see good reason to. Haven't yet. I just see more that endorses them.

 

[Tresir]

Here's a four page letter from Greeno to the court not yet filed with the court apparently.

Basically claiming press privilege but also saying he received nothing from sources except what came from the D or their agents.

 

[Tresir]

This Wish TV article gives a pretty good update of the current status. Monday is the contempt hearing.

Attorneys for Delphi murders suspect accuse prosecutors of hiding evidence

Richard Allen, 51, was arrested for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German

www.wishtv.com

From the link.

by: Gregg Montgomery and Danielle Zulkosky
Posted: Mar 12, 2024 / 05:48 PM EST / Updated: Mar 12, 2024 / 11:33 PM EST

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Two major developments happened Tuesday in the lead-up to the Delphi murders trial.
Richard Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.
Allen’s attorneys filed new paperwork in court that accuses the prosecution of hiding evidence that could help prove Allen proof he’s not guilty of the murders. The motion says the prosecution has taken months longer than allowed to hand over major pieces of evidence, including what the defense labels potential exculpatory evidence.
The filings specifically cited video and audio of police interviews; the name of an expert who consulted with police on the possibility the killings were part of a “ritualistic sacrifice,” as the defense has hinted; and details on a map showing cellphone activity near where the girls were found. The cellphone activity is said to have happened at the time police believe the girls were killed, and Allen’s attorneys say none of the phones have a connection to Allen.
“What’s interesting is there are some points in there where they admit some of the evidence they’re asking for may not even exist,” said Kevin Greenlee, an attorney and host of the Murder Sheet Podcast. “They’re just guessing it’s likely to exist, in their opinion.”
The filing came less than a week after the defense filed a request for a speedy trial. Under Indiana law, the trial must start in 70 days. This gives a mid-May deadline, and an official trial date of May 13 was set.
The attorneys’ motion to compel, though, could delay the trial.

“The defense is specifically asking for sanctions (on) the prosecutor in the form of, if this gets continued, it could be blamed on the prosecutor,” said Áine Cain, a journalist, and host of the podcast. “So if they’re even thinking about that, that really seems to strongly indicate to me that there will probably be more delays and we should not necessarily expect May.”
While unlikely, according to Greenlee, if the 70-day clock runs out because the prosecution broke rules, Allen would be released from jail. If Allen is not tried in court, he could still be recharged with these crimes and tried in court at a later date.
Two separate matters are playing out in the courts simultaneously: the criminal trial against Allen, and a separate contempt hearing for his attorneys.
The defense team filed six additional motions on Tuesday. One asks for a change of venue, and for the proceedings to be moved back to Carroll County, where the girls were found dead.
The additional filings relate to the contempt hearing: one added more witnesses; another asked the prosecutor, Nicholas McLeland, to recuse himself in the hearing because he is a witness. An additional motion asked the judge to recuse herself due to a lack of neutrality, and the defense team also asked for the judge to issue a finding of fact after the hearing.
These motions were filed at the same time as one to postpone Monday’s hearing in the case to focus first on the criminal trial, but, as of Tuesday night, the contempt of court hearing is still set to move forward on Monday.
Earlier on Tuesday, I-Team 8 obtained new documents on what could unfold in Monday’s hearing in Fort Wayne on the contempt of court accusations facing Allen’s attorneys, Brad Rozzi and Andrew Baldwin.
Prosecutors want Special Judge Frances Gull to take some type of disciplinary action against the defense team over a leak of evidence last year in the Delphi murders case. That leak, tied back to the defense team’s legal office, included never-before-released photos of the scene where Abby and Libby died.
Gull has already called the attorneys grossly negligent for the leak, pushing them off the case in October, when she said, “We’ve had an unexpected turn of events, ladies and gentlemen: The defense attorneys have withdrawn their representation of Mr. Allen.”
The Indiana Supreme Court reinstated the defense attorneys after the judge had removed them from the case.
Greenlee told News 8 that the criminal trial could move forward before the contempt hearing because any action from the contempt hearing would likely not be enough to remove the lawyers from the case again.
Allen’s attorneys have filed notice they plan to introduce evidence Monday that prosecutors had been in contact with online, “true crime” podcasters and YouTube creators. One of them, Gary Beaudette, who runs the YouTube page FigSolv, has spent extensive time covering the Delphi murders case.
Beaudette said, “I’ve gone from learning about the Delphi murders while listening to a podcast called True Crime Garage to creating YouTube videos to spread awareness about the case and to encourage people to tip in relevant information to law enforcement, hoping a little nudge will make someone who knew something say something.”
The defense points to an Oct. 22, 2022, video from the page that talks about a bullet found at the crime scene and linked to Allen. That information came out a week before the court unsealed the information.
Allen’s attorneys also plan on Monday to present evidence of Baudette’s communications about the disqualification of defense counsel; giving prosecutors defense work product; and court staff revelations.
In a letter to the court obtained Tuesday by I-Team 8, Beaudette defends his work, saying he did contact prosecutors when he received unsolicited Delphi murders evidence. He goes on to write, “I must unequivocally state that I was not involved in any strategy to disseminate crime scene photos.”
He goes on to claim his online interactions “have been misinterpreted by individuals who have targeted me due to my support for the Indiana prosecutor, law enforcement, and the Honorable Judge Gull.”
Gull decided March 1 to deny four requests for cameras to record Monday’s hearing in Fort Wayne.
The judge this week granted a defense request to move up the start of the trial to May 13. The trial is scheduled to be in Delphi with a jury from Allen County, where Gull serves as a judge.

 

[RoundPeg]

I'm interested in that geofence information. Also, regarding these YouTubers trying to say they've been given no info from the Prosecution? For me, that's a wait and see. I think we all know my opinion of them (and I'm entitled to hold that).

Withholding evidence is a major issue if that is happening. Like, conviction overturning major if so. IMO, anyone that wants this trial concluded properly should be interested in that defense motion.

 

[Tresir]

I'm interested in that geofence information. Also, regarding these YouTubers trying to say they've been given no info from the Prosecution? For me, that's a wait and see. I think we all know my opinion of them (and I'm entitled to hold that).

Withholding evidence is a major issue if that is happening. Like, conviction overturning major if so. IMO, anyone that wants this trial concluded properly should be interested in that defense motion.

The message the defence are quoting from Mclelland to Fig saying delete everything was because of the crime scene photos he received. A lot more people were sent these than has been admitted and they were contacting the prosecutors office about it.

The cell phone data is not surprising to me. Most everybody that visited would have had a cell phone so those details would show up. There were quite a few family members showed up to search, plus other people on the trails as well.
I don't think it would be accurate either and those who lived near there would have phones too. The defence can only blame themselves for not taking care of items under the gag order and leaking it in the first place. They seem to be using this contempt hearing to try and leak more items as much as they can. I'll be glad when the contempt hearing is done and dusted and they can proceed with the trial. Very glad it has been brought forward.

 

[Tresir]

I'm interested in that geofence information. Also, regarding these YouTubers trying to say they've been given no info from the Prosecution? For me, that's a wait and see. I think we all know my opinion of them (and I'm entitled to hold that).

Withholding evidence is a major issue if that is happening. Like, conviction overturning major if so. IMO, anyone that wants this trial concluded properly should be interested in that defense motion.

The art of deduction guy says in his letter that he purposely leaked something to Fig to see what would happen. I just read that so will check it again for the exact wording, which you can read below this post.

 

[Tresir]

Frank Wesseling
Aka Art of Deduction youtuber

x.com

twitter.com

Below is the Reddit link to a copy of Frank's letter to Judge Gull.




Melinda Gibbs is a Carroll County Clerk of Court from another state ( Baudette sent his court correspondence there in error initially )

Bumping Frank Wesserling letter.

 

[Tresir]

If you want a really good laugh read the reddit comments on Greeno's letter to the court, that hasn't been sent yet. I was crying with laughter at one point.

 

[Tresir]

Info about Geofencing.

What is geofencing, how does it work, what are the privacy concerns?

Introducing geofencing: a technology with serious potential in a number of industries, but big privacy problems if handled incorrectly.

www.comparitech.com

From the link -

Geofencing could even link you to a crime scene, regardless of whether you were involved. In the US, police can use a “geo-fence” or “reverse location” warrant to find out who was in a particular area at a particular time. Most of this data comes from Google’s Sensorvault, which is a database of user location data. This is gathered regardless of whether the user has disabled their Location History.
Geo-fence warrants have been served to Google since 2016, though the number has increased from 982 in 2018 to 11,554 in 2021. There has been some pushback against them, with judges in California and Virginia ruling that the warrants breached the Fourth Amendment’s protections against unreasonable searches.

 

[Imamazed]

Delphi defense team attorney seeks postponement of Monday’s contempt of court hearing

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A lawyer representing Delphi double murder suspect Richard Allen’s defense team has filed a motion seeking continuance of a hearing before Special Judge Fran Gull Monda…

fox59.com

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Delphi defense team attorney seeks postponement of Monday’s contempt of court hearing

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A lawyer representing Delphi double murder suspect Richard Allen’s defense team has filed a motion seeking continuance of a hearing before Special Judge Fran Gull Monda…

fox59.com

I get the impression that the prosecution is trying to stall things because they know there are a lot of holes in the story. Allegedly, one of the branches covering a girls body had been recently cut. From the sounds of it, by a hacksaw or something. It was too thick to simply break. If that's true where did RA get the saw from? Did he bring it?

Were the girls actually taken somewhere else before they were killed? How accurate is the phone pinging of RL's phone at 10pm the night before discovery?

Did the stuff about the professor offering advice on the Odinism angle actually happen the way it was described? The defense, I believe can ask the professor if he had been approached by the prosecution and what he told them. Was it different from the things the prosecution told them about it? If so, that could really cast a lot of doubt on the state's case overall.

Is the Odinism thing entirely possible?

RA's DNA and fingerprints aren't on the scene, anywhere, not even on the bullet. (That may or may not be true.) There has been a lot of water muddying done by both the prosecution and defense so far, that it's difficult to know what to believe.

I still think there is something rotten in Denmark errr... Delphi.

It seems obvious to me that Gull has a problem with these defense attorneys. I believe it was even before the picture leaks. She should see the writing on the wall and recuse herself.

 

[Tresir]

I get the impression that the prosecution is trying to stall things because they know there are a lot of holes in the story. Allegedly, one of the branches covering a girls body had been recently cut. From the sounds of it, by a hacksaw or something. It was too thick to simply break. If that's true where did RA get the saw from? Did he bring it?

Were the girls actually taken somewhere else before they were killed? How accurate is the phone pinging of RL's phone at 10pm the night before discovery?

Did the stuff about the professor offering advice on the Odinism angle actually happen the way it was described? The defense, I believe can ask the professor if he had been approached by the prosecution and what he told them. Was it different from the things the prosecution told them about it? If so, that could really cast a lot of doubt on the state's case overall.

Is the Odinism thing entirely possible?

RA's DNA and fingerprints aren't on the scene, anywhere, not even on the bullet. (That may or may not be true.) There has been a lot of water muddying done by both the prosecution and defense so far, that it's difficult to know what to believe.

I still think there is something rotten in Denmark errr... Delphi.

It seems obvious to me that Gull has a problem with these defense attorneys. I believe it was even before the picture leaks. She should see the writing on the wall and recuse herself.

I think D are desperately throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks. A frenzy of motions before the contempt hearing and I think all this muddying the waters will continue right up to the main trial. Sowing seeds of doubt before they even get in the courtroom. There is a ton of insurmountable evidence against RA which they will not be able to discount. Part of me thinks the photo leaks were orchestrated by the defence, and the negligence of leaving them out displayed for anyone to see was clearly deliberate.

It is quite telling that the original judge who recused himself seems to have dodged a bullet by avoiding all this mud slinging and evidence leaking shenanigans. The scales of justice are not so even in this case at the moment. Part of me thinks this is all defence strategy designed to even up the scales that have been tipped by the confessions of their client and the leaking of the photos and the O defence strategy. The trial has to overcome all this pre trial publicity as well.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Here's a four page letter from Greeno to the court not yet filed with the court apparently.

Basically claiming press privilege but also saying he received nothing from sources except what came from the D or their agents.

OMG lol. I don't think it's hard to see why every one who was running with things on behalf of Allen, and the O thing and the leaks and more have shut up. People who would have formerly been the worst or jumped on every single bit of news are silent. Tom isn't. Gray I think finally did a show but he's been off it in large part for awhile and he lived and breathed Delphi.

I'm not a bit surprised and I am not going to say I feel I saw it from early on but...

What a sh*t show. FEW are whining any longer or protesting about the defense and fairness OR talking of any of it, it's been so odd that it's obvious. The ex parte, the speedy trial, and so on have had some mentions but hardly anything much on platforms...

I'll leave it there. All know what I think. And I am entitled to an opinion but then some would have one think not. The narrative part in Greeno's letter about someone asking someone to push the RON LOGAN thing to help Allen was VERY INTERESTING...

For the record I did read it, I read it all except kidn of skimming the legal parts on press and such but skimmed them too.

 

[GrandmaBear]

If you want a really good laugh read the reddit comments on Greeno's letter to the court, that hasn't been sent yet. I was crying with laughter at one point.

Unless it has changed, I have never figured out how to get around in Reddit. It seems like some old school kind of layout with a title and then links under it or subtopics by anyone and then there are fifty thousand more main ones and same under branching everywhere. Seems like some old type of layout/website or I just am not one familiar with it. Haven't tried in a long time, no time. I'd love to cry and laugh out loud though. It's what everyone NEEDS in their life more than we get it. And it sure could be used in this thread.

The letter was interesting enough I can almost imagine the comments... And I do know REddit is a lot more "no holds barred" than some SM platforms etc.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Delphi defense team attorney seeks postponement of Monday’s contempt of court hearing

CARROLL COUNTY, Ind. — A lawyer representing Delphi double murder suspect Richard Allen’s defense team has filed a motion seeking continuance of a hearing before Special Judge Fran Gull Monda…

fox59.com

I'm just going to say speedy then delay. File something hoping to get prosecution in trouble because you are facing trouble. Then letters come from people YOU said things about. Now a wanted delay. I wouldn't count on speedy trial whatsoever.

And if I were anyone in this case, I'd beg to leave. However, to this day what I see almost all that causes sh*t seems to always come from the defense.

With that, I'll just say I feel sorry for Abby and Libby, largely forgotten, their families who this has to be HE77 for, and Richard Allen, guilty or not. And no one is making me, but I'll leave it at that and

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think D are desperately throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks. A frenzy of motions before the contempt hearing and I think all this muddying the waters will continue right up to the main trial. Sowing seeds of doubt before they even get in the courtroom. There is a ton of insurmountable evidence against RA which they will not be able to discount. Part of me thinks the photo leaks were orchestrated by the defence, and the negligence of leaving them out displayed for anyone to see was clearly deliberate.

It is quite telling that the original judge who recused himself seems to have dodged a bullet by avoiding all this mud slinging and evidence leaking shenanigans. The scales of justice are not so even in this case at the moment. Part of me thinks this is all defence strategy designed to even up the scales that have been tipped by the confessions of their client and the leaking of the photos and the O defence strategy. The trial has to overcome all this pre trial publicity as well.

It is all orchestrated and then they panic and try to deflect and blame others or file something to change the tides.

For me it is so CLEAR what they are doing and the timing with each and every single thing. On top of it they are trying to cover their own incompetence and not doing their job. I've been disgusted with many but I dont' think I've ever been so disgusted with defense attorneys where I ever feel sorry for a defendant I leave to be guilty.

I'd never speak for you EVER, you do that fine yourself, but feel you see a lot of the same.

And it's like people take it personally as if it's their kid's uncle or something that is the defense attorney or you name it. I have NO PERSONAL anything in this case. I lean one way but just say what I see and what takes me lean that way. If Gull or the DA were proven to be as corrupt as all HE77 tomorrow, I'd go there. I went there recently saying IF NM saw the ex parte thing through some crooked means HE DID, I'd go there but it was all a big sham imo AND I suspect the defense who is in my opinion close to incompetent as well, did not file it correctly. Wouldn't be the first time for God's sake.

And I'll leave it at that. This post isn't meant to be in response to yours as to my opinion, just the first reply was, the rest is what I'd say independent of any post by anyone. Jus so people don't misconstrue anything.

Yes, I judged that judge for being such a whatever but he has thanked his lucky stars many a time he took himself off this case.

It's like watching children in tit for tat but this is SERIOUS. However, I don't really ever see the prosecution doing tit for tat. They didn't give some overblown reaction or response to the overboard ridiculous Frank's memo, they didn't react, the responded in time and shared notihing and stuck to the legal points of all that truly mattered in the ridiculous lengthy thing. I think it surpassed both Gone with the Wind and War and Peace in length didn't it? Those were far better written however.

Okay, I'd better stop lol but at some point what else can one do. It is so ridiculous. This defense wanted back on they are back on but only until if the correct way of removing them can be done.

And I think some don't believe it but I do feel sorry for RA, he deserves a real defense team that knows how to follow orders and law. As awesome as he might have thought it when every SM platforms was like the defense's buddies, it is now silent and not going their way. How is RA feeling now if he knows that? I truly believe a defendant does have to be protected from such attorneys and they'e shown it too many times.

That's my opinion, not yours, I just simply started responding under your post.

The contempt hearing delayed? This was plenty of time, what do they need time for? I guess I should read that link, I didn't. I did read Greeno's letter. Theyk've known about and had their facts or story about the leak for months. If they are worried about Gull taking them apart in public like they went out the back door last time, well the WORLD is watching now whether live or not so GROW UP and be a man and an atty who doesn't need to cheat to appear to be a good one.

I'm sure that won't go over well with some but the opposing views are just as staunch and I'm directing it at the players in the case, none of whom I have one bit of concern, relationship or care for.

Okay, long hard week. I see a few new cases. Not even going to look from here on out unless I already know of them. Definitely not going to get into the one of them EVER.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I also am not going to touch the geofencing or things like how ALL now could be exculpatory evidence when even the defense often knows it is not. The pendulum has gone too far. We saw that played in the Daybell case. Prior had a fit over it forever and then got it and never even tested it. Wasn't geofencing, it was physical evidence. All games.

It's like the Odin thing. They can't place a one there. There is no link or connection shown between the O guards the Os blamed for the murders, NONE.

It swings both ways and can be abused both ways but LE has been cut off at the knees and so have defendant's rights gone too far that have nothing to do with constitutional rights in many cases.

Have a good one everyone.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Coming back in only to share a Tom link who is the easiest lengthy show guy I've ever listened to and so sane about this case leaning in no direction. I think the last one I watched he had this planned as his next anyhow and it is for the day of the contempt hearing. I don't KNOW if he will do one with recent developments before that or not. It is one thing I love about him, he is NOT a crime podcaster lol. He ONLY covers this one and prior Missy Bevers. People beg him too and he doesn't but this one he got intrigued into. I think he sometimes regrest it honestly. Lol.

NOTICE his name has come up with nothing in all the shenannigans in this case. And he continues to do shows on it.

Anyhow, I will likely be working and that bites, not sure of my schedule that day but I've been on almost all nights. So it isn't now about the recent filings but by then may be, he'd surely know, he is up on all, and maybe he will do one before with new nesws but hard to say.

Regardless, he plans to cover the contempt hearing although now defense is trying for a delay... Big surprise...

I can't do three hours or more of like Gray Hughes but I can do a few of Tom no problem. Even though I don't have the time, I will go back and finish no problem. He also doesn't do many and so i' never where like wow he had three more so I can't finish his last one when I get some minutes.

I know it will fall on deaf ears, but he is wonderfully NOT decided on RA's guilt and more and wonderfully logical on the rest of it. Even so, I don't agree with all he ever thinks but love that he brings SANITY to the ridiculous sh*t going on in this case.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I don't know why what comes up when it does but NOW I just saw Tom did do one like five hours ago. So you know what I am going to listen to before falling asleep. Why that didn't pop up to me first when I had some hours left in me I don't know. Haven't watched it, just sharing before I even do or have an opinion.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I knew he'd do it. He has dialed down the lengthy document. Unbiased. He starts out actually agreeing with the defense on something. I know full well some won't go there because they just won't as stuck on what they're stuck on. I don't agree with all he thinks but he is a wonderful balance. Doesn't mean he's always right but he he has no agenda, no bias, no need to be right. I need to be in bed big time and have only just started it but now I don't have to read the pages as I trust Tom. He has read them and dialed down, not with a bias. Anyone on the other side of the fence would have no issue with him imo. The only ones that would would be those that think RL is BG. That he won't diss ya but he is beyond that and disagrees. He's analytical and organized but not dull and give him a few question and answer periods lol.

I've only watched some minutes but now he says what things dont' say and that's how much discovery (it works both ways) has the defense turned over to the prosecution in their invesigation and case prep? Why is it we never hear of that in any case....?

But then he is back to being fair and siding with the defense somewhat. he does, the facts, he does the docs, he is organized and analytical but not dull if you give him a show or two. He has no desire for money whatsoever and he is NOT a crime follower like us (well I am, not sure of quite a few). He'd be great on the Read case because he'd look at it from with all the facts and start from scratch without bias. You'll hear him agree with you or disagree for those with opinions leaning either way. He's no expert, he is no lawyer, but he's good and he has no interest and does not follow true crime lol.

People can post all the millions of pages of docs they like or link them and back when I actually tried to read all in every case t least the ones that I cared about and followed as top ones. Yet people do that here and never comment or talk of this and that and all the pages they read. And it's always been the case where some out there will do a show on some filed document but there's only some who read every word of the tons filed in this case by the defense and you can trust to dial down to what matters and he's one of the few. Grizzly is a doc person but I've seen in cases where she has a clear bias and was tending towards sensationalism as well and click bait. Tom just isn't any of those things. He doesn't care about $$, viewers and how many or any of that. Watch him long enough and you will know that. Or go back and do so.

He isn't looking to quit his day job and doesnt spend the first hour drumming up money like someone who lived and breathed this case most of us can name on every single show he does.

Unless all or so stubborn and set, give Tom a try and watch at least a couple full shows. And the question answering. You aren't though going to get an agreement on RL and he will tell you the reasons why better than anyone can. Not in this show necessarily but throughout.