LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[RoundPeg]

I think D are desperately throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks. A frenzy of motions before the contempt hearing and I think all this muddying the waters will continue right up to the main trial. Sowing seeds of doubt before they even get in the courtroom. There is a ton of insurmountable evidence against RA which they will not be able to discount. Part of me thinks the photo leaks were orchestrated by the defence, and the negligence of leaving them out displayed for anyone to see was clearly deliberate.

It is quite telling that the original judge who recused himself seems to have dodged a bullet by avoiding all this mud slinging and evidence leaking shenanigans. The scales of justice are not so even in this case at the moment. Part of me thinks this is all defence strategy designed to even up the scales that have been tipped by the confessions of their client and the leaking of the photos and the O defence strategy. The trial has to overcome all this pre trial publicity as well.

Pre trial publicity makes me think of Lori Daybell.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I think D are desperately throwing mud at a wall to see what sticks. A frenzy of motions before the contempt hearing and I think all this muddying the waters will continue right up to the main trial. Sowing seeds of doubt before they even get in the courtroom. There is a ton of insurmountable evidence against RA which they will not be able to discount. Part of me thinks the photo leaks were orchestrated by the defence, and the negligence of leaving them out displayed for anyone to see was clearly deliberate.

It is quite telling that the original judge who recused himself seems to have dodged a bullet by avoiding all this mud slinging and evidence leaking shenanigans. The scales of justice are not so even in this case at the moment. Part of me thinks this is all defence strategy designed to even up the scales that have been tipped by the confessions of their client and the leaking of the photos and the O defence strategy. The trial has to overcome all this pre trial publicity as well.

The prosecution has been playing the leak evidence game too. How they are finding out about defense tactics is concerning. They don't have a slam dunk case. No DNA or fingerprints. Yet they have SOMEBODY'S DNA and fingerprints. Nobody knows who's.

 

[Tresir]

The prosecution has been playing the leak evidence game too. How they are finding out about defense tactics is concerning. They don't have a slam dunk case. No DNA or fingerprints. Yet they have SOMEBODY'S DNA and fingerprints. Nobody knows who's.

I think the P and LE are better at keeping their evidence under wraps than the D are.

Can't think of anything the P have leaked but you can remind me if you like.

 

[Tresir]

I knew he'd do it. He has dialed down the lengthy document. Unbiased. He starts out actually agreeing with the defense on something. I know full well some won't go there because they just won't as stuck on what they're stuck on. I don't agree with all he thinks but he is a wonderful balance. Doesn't mean he's always right but he he has no agenda, no bias, no need to be right. I need to be in bed big time and have only just started it but now I don't have to read the pages as I trust Tom. He has read them and dialed down, not with a bias. Anyone on the other side of the fence would have no issue with him imo. The only ones that would would be those that think RL is BG. That he won't diss ya but he is beyond that and disagrees. He's analytical and organized but not dull and give him a few question and answer periods lol.

I've only watched some minutes but now he says what things dont' say and that's how much discovery (it works both ways) has the defense turned over to the prosecution in their invesigation and case prep? Why is it we never hear of that in any case....?

But then he is back to being fair and siding with the defense somewhat. he does, the facts, he does the docs, he is organized and analytical but not dull if you give him a show or two. He has no desire for money whatsoever and he is NOT a crime follower like us (well I am, not sure of quite a few). He'd be great on the Read case because he'd look at it from with all the facts and start from scratch without bias. You'll hear him agree with you or disagree for those with opinions leaning either way. He's no expert, he is no lawyer, but he's good and he has no interest and does not follow true crime lol.

People can post all the millions of pages of docs they like or link them and back when I actually tried to read all in every case t least the ones that I cared about and followed as top ones. Yet people do that here and never comment or talk of this and that and all the pages they read. And it's always been the case where some out there will do a show on some filed document but there's only some who read every word of the tons filed in this case by the defense and you can trust to dial down to what matters and he's one of the few. Grizzly is a doc person but I've seen in cases where she has a clear bias and was tending towards sensationalism as well and click bait. Tom just isn't any of those things. He doesn't care about $$, viewers and how many or any of that. Watch him long enough and you will know that. Or go back and do so.

He isn't looking to quit his day job and doesnt spend the first hour drumming up money like someone who lived and breathed this case most of us can name on every single show he does.

Unless all or so stubborn and set, give Tom a try and watch at least a couple full shows. And the question answering. You aren't though going to get an agreement on RL and he will tell you the reasons why better than anyone can. Not in this show necessarily but throughout.

I have only had time to listen to the first 45 minutes so far. Hope to get back to it later maybe

 

[GrandmaBear]

I think the P and LE are better at keeping their evidence under wraps than the D are.

Can't think of anything the P have leaked but you can remind me if you like.

Totally better at it, they say nothing. Even when they could go back at something like the FM probably with evidence or file info to show errors or lies or omissions in the defense claims, they don't. It isn't necessary and it would share things that they want under wraps.

I had to hit a laugh at the news they are asking for a delay on the contempt hearing. I think I might have laughed out loud, don't know I was so tired or getting there I almost couldn't see straight. Couldn't keep my eyes open to watch all of Tom either or even that much and so wish I'd run into that new one earlier in the night. I still need to watch it but tons to do.

It's their usual pattern which by now all should see and know. It's been seen over and over and over. They are facing something and here comes a new blizzard first of all created by them, with the sanction thing on prosecution and even the ex parte thing which seems to have had no legs(?) and they probably caused due to a blunder or intentional blunder and then these letters start getting filed for the contempt hearing and now the panic has them asking for a delay...

The whole Wieneke thing too was weird, just using someone else again to help create thoughts.

As far as pretrial publicity, I have an opinion of that that would be a thread or topic in itself. You have the wrong jurors to begin with if they could be influenced by such in this day and age with all the fakery in news that goes on and agendas. Definitely is a topic itself...

You've again had some really good finds. Read most letters. Did not go to Reddit.

What the defense has done makes the entire cast here appear to be a bozo show with playground battles of children but when one clears the smoke or the sn*w, prosecution hasn't done in kind and judge hasn't either. Despite I'm sure the frustration of this orchestrated b.s. show. If they have and it is shown I'm quite happy to see them all out the door but not sure who they'd put in place then either there... Then of course it would delay and some would be whining if the new ones on all sides and the judges need to get up to speed and RA has to wait.

Of course though I'm no seing much of that out there, maybe in places like Reddit there is. On YT as I said all has been like crickets overall by those who ran with every dumb defense support and theory they could prior to that. And it is pretty clear why and what was causing it imo.

I need some Tom lol but on the other hand, this is getting so common and obvious it is getting blase and dull. I can only hope a jury finds the defense the same after a few weeks of the same kind of show as we've watched for months now.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I have only had time to listen to the first 45 minutes so far. Hope to get back to it later maybe

I couldn't keep my eyes open any longer I ran into it too late. You made it further than I, I think. Tom's clean. He doesn't have to worry about all this other sh*t. He's a sanctuary in this case for real info and a look at it and normalcy. That shouldn't be so rare but then he isn't doing it for money, to gain viewers and to have a salacious headline to bring such and that's rare. He is unique in that way. You don't do videos as a rule or norm so the fact you watch Tom tells me something imo. Am I wrong?

I get for many they want it to be an income and many even do care about the truth or seemed to until this case but... And news well, that's always been the case with click bait and headlines and teasers before here was ever click bait lol but it's gone way beyond in this one. There's agenda in this one, maybe not the same agenda by some who had it disseminated to them but the intent by the originators and their posse I'll call it was the same agenda... Imo.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

The court gave the prosecution some of the defenses work product. They found out the name of one of the defenses witness' and they couldn't have unless it was given to them by Judge Gull's court. I forget who the witness is or if they were ever specifically named.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The court gave the prosecution some of the defenses work product. They found out the name of one of the defenses witness' and they couldn't have unless it was given to them by Judge Gull's court. I forget who the witness is or if they were ever specifically named.

I'm not going to dance here in this ridiculous way, either people can talk here or have opinions or they can't. Not sure which it is.

So I am going to address directly.

Are you talking of the ex parte thing? And I get not being able to remember exactly as I sure have a lot of that lately with no time and too much going on.

You are talking of the expert aren't you?

And that would come about from not Gull but defense probably not filing their motion or doc under the rules outlined at the beginning to ensure it is flagged to not go to prosecution. Or if it was, would then fall on the Clerk of Court. If that is not what you are talking of, then find it and show it.

The defense has filed many things to be intentionally seen and create a ruckus like the FM. With ex parte stuff, they had from the beginning a court order on how to file that to maintain confidentiality from the prosecution IF they wanted it to be that way.

So IT truly depends IF that is what you are talking of.

And the least likely thing is that Gull shared it with them. Seriously.

I'm still not talking to you dodo but I'm done with the dance. It's an awkward dance anyhow. You're an emu so tired of my feet being stepped on and my head being jumped on.

 

[Tresir]

The court gave the prosecution some of the defenses work product. They found out the name of one of the defenses witness' and they couldn't have unless it was given to them by Judge Gull's court. I forget who the witness is or if they were ever specifically named.

Can you be more specific? Are you talking about the Mental Health experts, for example?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Can you be more specific? Are you talking about the Mental Health experts, for example?

I haven't deep dived into this case. I rarely do since I've started Ubering and getting so tired so quickly. I used to download entire trials and cut all of the non essential stuff, like the states flag being shown for an hour while they were on lunch and some such stuff.

I got complimented by someone who watched the Ahmaud Arbery trial I clipped down for viewing. So I when I read something interesting and it comes up later, please forgive me for my lack time to hunt stuff down that has already been discussed in articles and by experts on CourtTV.

 

[Tresir]

The court gave the prosecution some of the defenses work product. They found out the name of one of the defenses witness' and they couldn't have unless it was given to them by Judge Gull's court. I forget who the witness is or if they were ever specifically named.

Did you see this in the media? If so do you have a link? Otherwise it is all very vague what you are saying.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Did you see this in the media? If so do you have a link? Otherwise it is all very vague what you are saying.

He did do Arbery and do all he said. I also used to get, link and read hundreds of pages of docs but can't any longer. However, that has nothing to do with this and not sure why Court TV is the source of all and all experts stem from there on top of it. They put someone that a good majority have no respect for for real reason. I just saw Vinnie and things he said on the Soto case torn apart today by someone who minutes earlier had some respect for his coverage. I'll leave that alone as to remarks in both directions, good and bad

I have little to less time but I read it somewhere and it may have been in those things you found regarding prior ex parte, the Court's early order regarding such, and expert witness stuff and ex parte stuff that was filed after and some I believe no ex parte. IF that's even what he is referring to, who knows it is so vague even WHAT he is referring to.

If that is it, nothing alarmed me, it showed if I recall just that things have been known and shared, and not that anyone corruptly accessed something or was given something. I also don't recall the details but I know it made perfect sense to me, I think they were documents from awhile ago filed, and set off no bells at all or it would have been yelled about. The ex parte thing is STILL not being yelled about at ALL.

Again IF that is what he is talking of which itself is unclear.

It's opinion and speculation at best, and not fact so it should be called that. Don't even know the who, what , why or anything else.

Here is the thing it is like the recent filings by NM, he didn't hide one bit that he was referring to their motion and things in it. Not even B & R are that dumb. He had access to it for some reason and was either provided a copy by them or they did not MARK it accordingly when they filed it and it went up for all parties' access.

All this time later, I have to wonder was that the first time or yet another and just more blunders the others were nice enough not to call out and they didn't dare complain because they screwed up... Funny this is, where is the yelling about it... Wieneke yelled on their behalf but then I'm sure he was told whatever they told him or I shouldn't say I'm sure, I should say in imo I'm pretty sure... And usually always do express what is opinion versus many who purport things as a statement of fact.

He did almost single mindedly do the Arbery thing. I don't know what that though and trials on Court TV have to do with this nor do I think Court TV is the Gold Standard. There has been no tiral that's been watched in this case. There may well never be at this rate.

So was the remark with no source but a claim supposed to just make us all go oh wow, that means prosecution and judge are just as bad? With something that vague? Smh.

Going to step out of here again because it's the only thing to do. I'm not amused with some despite the fact I care about them deeply.

Soto isn't much different, not that many here follow any but it is being carried by emotion which I certainly get and have such in many cases but it doesn't mean you can charge with no evidene and there also is much being put out as fact EVEN BY retired LE who tell others never to do that that there is absolutely no backup of or proof of. Although, of course, they may have their sources but can't say that....

I haven't went back and watched all of Tom yet. Have things to do but if I do listen to something, that will be the one.

There's been a lot on other cases this week also. This certainly isn't the only one.

 

[GrandmaBear]

So I watched enough of Tom's now that I am up to his question and answer periods with chat which in his is always worth watching/listening to imo as well.

The part of his show that covers all the new docs and there are some that I wasn't aware of even is less than an hour.

I can't reiterate enough that for anyone on any side of the fence, they'd like him because he constantly says he agrees with the defense on this and that re discovery and so on and other things. He says that though and then says then their added remarks just destroy their credibility for instance. On either side of the fence as he shares all you will both find him on the same side as you and then not but it won't bother you as he is calling out what should be on BOTH parties, etc.

There is a lot more but just his remark about agreeing with just about all in delay of discovery that they then ruin it with each point by making some comment that is not true, is not necessary and so forth is what I try to get at. They just aren't professionals or they are playing to the public inserting false assertions imo in a document where such is not even called for.

He dialed down all recent filings and he's good at that.

And for anyone who wants to be right and cling to one thing and say it means everything, all will find something to hang onto rather than take his overall unbiased coverage of it, seeing it on one side over this, the other side over that, and letting it just take one to some sanity in this case.

Maybe all the docs were linked here, I know all in them has not been discussed but he has them all and has read them all and dialed them down along with this thoughts on each. The man is organized and does it for us. You don't need to worry he'd skip something because it doesn't fit with a bias or anything like that with him.

He's pretty much where I get my Delphi fix as it is overboard emotional here for the defense attys and Allen or some such imo and I'm not going to drop the case many of us have invested in for years because of it. A couple now have popped out with one, Grizzly for instance. I stood it for about ten minutes. Used to love her but there's no "both sides" at all. Some here for that reason would probably like checking that one out. I think the dearth of people covering it where not long ago all were going nuts with it tells a very clear story as to leaks and info given to the 'net.

Jmo. And just saying watch some Tom to not get all hyper and over emotional over it all.

 

[GrandmaBear]

For me, he brings the sanity back in this case which is what I think many of us could benefit from.

 

[GrandmaBear]

In the interest in having all or most in this thread, NM said when B & R had to return the discovery less was given back than was documented and provided.

I am listening to questions and answers now.

Of course I don't know in fairness what is in here because I gave up on reading all here, but I'd have real doubt info like that is on here so just putting it in for the record.

If there's anything that B & R seem, it is disorganized and inept. Imo. Sorry if that hurts anyone else's feelings. I am not certain they are though and that it isn't a continual act that's been done too many times and is not flying any longer, at least with me

But I lean to that they are and are constantly scrambling to cover for it when it catches up with them. And cover for their intentional leaks and PR pushed through channels.

By the way Tom covered the ex parte thing which seems to have not been found here or anywhere else. And allegedly it is clerk's office support staff and a lack of noting it on defense filings appropriately, to be not given to all sides. Since I don't read all here, I don't know if that was covered but I doubt it somehow.

A member of staff knew it was not to be shared with public but thought all parties. Judge, defense, prosecution, in the way my state does it in the electronic filing system with parties only, etc. no public access. I think they may also be cutting B & R a break OR the staff member screwed up but such was to be per early court order in the case in all CAPS and such when defense files.

Only seeing the filing will tell. What tresir put up a bit back where I did read the links and early court order told the defense how to file ex parte stuff. DID THEY follow that OR were even up on it?

 

[GrandmaBear]

It's kind of humorous honestly that the defense files something saying the contempt hearing is just a distraction (from the kings and leaders of distraction) and has requreid many hours of prep and takes away from preparing for trial in 61 days (I am paraphrasing and hadn't finished Tom's, busy day I had) and so on. Lol they only just filed the speedy trial thing and if they truly have spent all these hours preparing for the contempt hearing, why are they asking to delay it?

This is all such b.s. and so ludicrous. I wouldn't want anyone in the shoes we've been in but no one should want to trade places either with A & L's families, my God, how unfair. All cases basically have b.s. but this is so BEYOND.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Oh it is a motion to stay all ancillary proceedings and get this case to trial which they cared less about a week or whatever ago.

 

[GrandmaBear]

In short the court and the attorneys need to get back to the issues and quit the diversionary filings. LMAO. Until now I'd just ask who files the diversionary stuff? I think the contempt hearing by the prosecution is the first I've seen where the defense has done plenty AND they say this while they are filing several.

I did laugh out loud.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Just for the record, Tom didn't say that. I did.

 

[Tresir]

The D are requesting stuff they know doesn't exist just to run down the 70 day clock. That's why they want to drag out the contempt hearing. Gull's not going to fall for these shenanigans ( requesting non existence crap ).

Just get the contempt hearing out of the way and get on with the speedy trial FGS. I am sick of the delays now. First the FM, then the leaks then the Supreme Court etc etc

Also FTR neither the P nor LE have leaked anything. And I am convinced they knew about RA the whole time they were investigating KK and that was from the first week when they searched the Canal St residence and warned parents to watch what their children are up to.