LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Thats inaccurate. LE had that 2nd composite from the get go and held it back for 2 years. JMO
I have seen something that shows several sketches but cannot remember where now.

I kinda wonder if a confession made under duress should be allowed. If he got details wrong, that could work in his favor. My opinion.
I think they should all be allowed in so that they can be explained. If it wasnt RA on the bridge, then why didnt RA see BG and the girls? We know from the witness who only saw "young" BG from a distance, that she then turned around and passed Libby and Abby heading to the bridge
 
I have seen something that shows several sketches but cannot remember where now.


I think they should all be allowed in so that they can be explained. If it wasnt RA on the bridge, then why didnt RA see BG and the girls? We know from the witness who only saw "young" BG from a distance, that she then turned around and passed Libby and Abby heading to the bridge
Young BG is a huge problem, I guess from a wildly unreliable (or inaccurate) witness. IMO, that's a disaster. For awhile, I honestly thought it came from the Anthony Shots profile or something.
 
Oh my. I guess my go to assumption to blame is emu. Lol. Did she borrow her to roll eyes at emu though? I got emu from somewhere. In fast and tired trying to keep on.

Is it okay if she borrowed her to roll eyes at emu? Or does she just owe you some rent for the use? Lol.

Up to you. It's not okay unless you say it is . Let me know. :)

At least it wasn't Blue. Or cake. Those are on the emu right?
100% AT the emu! :rofl:
 
It still sounds like 2 different sets of descriptions to me. Sketch 1 looks very accurate to me. Sketch 2 looks like a totally different person. JMO
A sketch is only an interpretation of what a witness saw. It also looks like SC came back a couple of years later and had another go at the sketch based on the timeline above. (2017 and 2019). I think the sketches are similar except for apparent age interpretations and how far away the witness was.

RA looks like a mix of the 2 sketches. Which is understandable. The Reddit link explains it -

"Originally they went with the older sketch based off of the video RV, SC, and DP. They disregarded the witness of the younger guy and went with these statements. After the Logan stuff didn’t pan out or any other significant leads, 2 years later they revisited those witnesses and other witnesses who originally came forward but were not deemed credible because it didn’t fit with the other witnesses. Specifically BB who is adamant she saw a younger man. Since the sketch was already made she couldn’t contribute to it but agree with its accuracy. They went back to SC in 2019 where she slightly changed her account. Take into context what was going on in the investigation specifically the 2019 change in direction. They rethought the original witnesses statements that believed that the perpetrator was younger or younger then he appeared(SC) and went in the direction of him being younger. So simple as that exhausted all avenues from the first set of witnesses that were deem credible and after that didn’t pan out revisited the witness statements that were originally discarded. I do THINK they believed they all saw the same person, but just described him differently, hence a combination of the 2 sketches. Nothing scandalous or conspiratorial just one direction to the next."



Also did you notice on the list the date of the mental health report? 11-3-22.
 
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A sketch is only an interpretation of what a witness saw. It also looks like SC came back a couple of years later and had another go at the sketch based on the timeline above. (2017 and 2019). I think the sketches are similar except for apparent age interpretations and how far away the witness was.

RA looks like a mix of the 2 sketches. Which is understandable. The Reddit link explains it -

"Originally they went with the older sketch based off of the video RV, SC, and DP. They disregarded the witness of the younger guy and went with these statements. After the Logan stuff didn’t pan out or any other significant leads, 2 years later they revisited those witnesses and other witnesses who originally came forward but were not deemed credible because it didn’t fit with the other witnesses. Specifically BB who is adamant she saw a younger man. Since the sketch was already made she couldn’t contribute to it but agree with its accuracy. They went back to SC in 2019 where she slightly changed her account. Take into context what was going on in the investigation specifically the 2019 change in direction. They rethought the original witnesses statements that believed that the perpetrator was younger or younger then he appeared(SC) and went in the direction of him being younger. So simple as that exhausted all avenues from the first set of witnesses that were deem credible and after that didn’t pan out revisited the witness statements that were originally discarded. I do THINK they believed they all saw the same person, but just described him differently, hence a combination of the 2 sketches. Nothing scandalous or conspiratorial just one direction to the next."



Also did you notice on the list the date of the mental health report? 11-3-22.
Yeah, I noticed that date.

I actually think sketch 1 is a ringer for RA.
 
It still sounds like 2 different sets of descriptions to me. Sketch 1 looks very accurate to me. Sketch 2 looks like a totally different person. JMO
They ARE meant to be two different people, according to LE.
The sketches were done around the same time.

Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say​

April 24, 2019
The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.

Now, that's no longer the case. Investigators believe the man shown in a sketch released during a press conference on Monday "more accurately" represents the person who killed the teens in February 2017, State Police said in a news release on Wednesday.

While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies​

April 24, 2019
On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says​

April 23, 2019

A sketch police believe may depict the face of the killer behind the 2017 slayings of two girls in Indiana and that was released to the public on Monday was actually drawn two years ago -- just days after the victim's bodies were discovered.

The sketch artist with ISP who drew the face, Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, told the Indianapolis Star the picture presented as being new Monday had in fact been drawn Feb. 17, 2017, three days after the bodies of the two girls were discovered.

In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

Asked why a sketch created in 2017 was only now being released -- as the centerpiece of a press conference -- a state police spokesperson told Fox News on Tuesday the agency is not commenting on investigative techniques.

But on Monday, officials said the new image came about after some bit of new information that had been "continuously reviewed and examined." Authorities said the image "more accurately" depicted the face of the suspect from video recorded on German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.
 
They ARE meant to be two different people, according to LE.
The sketches were done around the same time.

Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say​

April 24, 2019
The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.

Now, that's no longer the case. Investigators believe the man shown in a sketch released during a press conference on Monday "more accurately" represents the person who killed the teens in February 2017, State Police said in a news release on Wednesday.

While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies​

April 24, 2019
On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says​

April 23, 2019

A sketch police believe may depict the face of the killer behind the 2017 slayings of two girls in Indiana and that was released to the public on Monday was actually drawn two years ago -- just days after the victim's bodies were discovered.

The sketch artist with ISP who drew the face, Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, told the Indianapolis Star the picture presented as being new Monday had in fact been drawn Feb. 17, 2017, three days after the bodies of the two girls were discovered.

In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

Asked why a sketch created in 2017 was only now being released -- as the centerpiece of a press conference -- a state police spokesperson told Fox News on Tuesday the agency is not commenting on investigative techniques.

But on Monday, officials said the new image came about after some bit of new information that had been "continuously reviewed and examined." Authorities said the image "more accurately" depicted the face of the suspect from video recorded on German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.
Oh. Well no wonder lol.
 
A sketch is only an interpretation of what a witness saw. It also looks like SC came back a couple of years later and had another go at the sketch based on the timeline above. (2017 and 2019). I think the sketches are similar except for apparent age interpretations and how far away the witness was.

RA looks like a mix of the 2 sketches. Which is understandable. The Reddit link explains it -

"Originally they went with the older sketch based off of the video RV, SC, and DP. They disregarded the witness of the younger guy and went with these statements. After the Logan stuff didn’t pan out or any other significant leads, 2 years later they revisited those witnesses and other witnesses who originally came forward but were not deemed credible because it didn’t fit with the other witnesses. Specifically BB who is adamant she saw a younger man. Since the sketch was already made she couldn’t contribute to it but agree with its accuracy. They went back to SC in 2019 where she slightly changed her account. Take into context what was going on in the investigation specifically the 2019 change in direction. They rethought the original witnesses statements that believed that the perpetrator was younger or younger then he appeared(SC) and went in the direction of him being younger. So simple as that exhausted all avenues from the first set of witnesses that were deem credible and after that didn’t pan out revisited the witness statements that were originally discarded. I do THINK they believed they all saw the same person, but just described him differently, hence a combination of the 2 sketches. Nothing scandalous or conspiratorial just one direction to the next."



Also did you notice on the list the date of the mental health report? 11-3-22.

They ARE meant to be two different people, according to LE.
The sketches were done around the same time.

Two sketches released in Delphi murders are not of the same man, Indiana State Police say​

April 24, 2019
The man depicted in an old sketch released to the public two years ago is no longer believed to be the person who killed teens Abigail Williams and Liberty German in Delphi, Indiana State Police said.

The man in the 2017 sketch was a person of interest in the investigation during that period, police said.

Now, that's no longer the case. Investigators believe the man shown in a sketch released during a press conference on Monday "more accurately" represents the person who killed the teens in February 2017, State Police said in a news release on Wednesday.

While both sketches were drawn in 2017, police clarified that the renderings are "not the same person."

Delphi murders: New suspect sketch not same man as in old sketch, ISP clarifies​

April 24, 2019
On Wednesday, police emphasized that a new sketch of a suspect’s face is not supposed to be a different take on a composite sketch of a heavier, older-looking man. They are, according to Indiana State Police Sgt. Kim Riley, not the same person.

Riley also said Wednesday that the original sketch – released in the summer of 2017, showing a man with a goatee and a driving cap – is “not presently a person of interest in this investigation.”

According to an ISP release, the new sketch of the clean-shaven man “is representative of the face of the person captured in the video on Liberty German’s cell phone as he was walking on the high bridge.”

The new sketch features what police called a man with “a youthful appearance, but could fall in the age range from his 20s to late-30s.”

'New' Delphi suspect sketch was drawn days after murders of 2 Indiana girls, artist says​

April 23, 2019

A sketch police believe may depict the face of the killer behind the 2017 slayings of two girls in Indiana and that was released to the public on Monday was actually drawn two years ago -- just days after the victim's bodies were discovered.

The sketch artist with ISP who drew the face, Master Trooper Taylor Bryant, told the Indianapolis Star the picture presented as being new Monday had in fact been drawn Feb. 17, 2017, three days after the bodies of the two girls were discovered.

In vague terms, Bryant told the Star the image was based on the description of a man by a witness who reported seeing something they felt needed to be reported. The sketch is a "ballpark estimation of what the person looks like."

Asked why a sketch created in 2017 was only now being released -- as the centerpiece of a press conference -- a state police spokesperson told Fox News on Tuesday the agency is not commenting on investigative techniques.

But on Monday, officials said the new image came about after some bit of new information that had been "continuously reviewed and examined." Authorities said the image "more accurately" depicted the face of the suspect from video recorded on German's cell phone while she and Abigail were on the High Bridge.

I never thought they looked remotely similar.
 
It's also interesting that we know so much of what allegedly ties him to the murders, except for DNA and fingerprint evidence. If they had it, they'd release it, JMO.
 
Copy of Motion to Suppress.


Well, I'll say this, that might be the onlk two page not wandering document I've seen the defense file. I wonder who drafted it lol. And who drafts the others.

They state as fact the statements were involuntary and then they also talk of mental and psychological coercion and then on page two say that he was physically coerced.

Of course none of these statements are proven facts and since they are talking of many statements now those are pretty blanket statements about I guess every single confession? PHYSICALLY COERCED?

Did they hold his mouth open and say talk? That one makes no sense to me. Does this mean whoever they all were, I forget, that an inmate physically forced him to confess to him, a warden held the pen in his hand and made him write letters to him (this rumored, not sure if fact?), a doctor did and so on or whoever they all were. I forget other than an inmate and of course mom and wife and who did the physically force him? Or do they mean guards did, so guards physically somehow forced him to confess to an inmate and mom and wife and so on?

None of this is known fact and with all so far, I don't see where they have much chance with this or of providing these claims.

There is video or should be and recordings. If there isn't with the ones they are NOW conjuring and stating that don't match, then I don't give them one bi of belief and if there is but it is AFTER he confessed to wife and mom, they are out the window for me as well as he was trying to undo damage and give ones with intentionally wrong facts. The known ones need to come in and whether B & R and RA want other likely false or intentional ones to help him get out of the others, kept out, I'm fine with that lol.
 
I don't understand where it comes from that she was insistent.
It was two years after the murders that LE created that 2nd composite sketch, I mean, LE was understandably frustrated by then and can you imagine why? Two years into their investigation and they hadn't identified the man that three girls had passed on the trail, the man the witness saw on the bridge, the man in Libby's video, the person who'd "abandoned" their car at the old building...They knew it was the same man and that he was the murderer, they just hadn't identified him and evidently thought a younger composite sketch might be helpful.
Well unless I have it wrong she went back in and asked why in the heck they had never released her sketch or description or whatever it was and and of who she saw and wanted them to. At least that is what I think or recall hearing. She isn't a new person that came late into the case by years either.. She offered the info just as all witnesses did early on in the case.

There were a few varying things said as to why the 2nd sketch and who or what it was supposed to be about, very confusing explanations. I thought at some point it might relate to Klein, or they wanted to find out who the pic was in the fake profile or some such. I thought of a father son team, stuff like that. However, it is from her, pretty sure and that's what it was about.

It is clear to me the girls saw RA and their descriptions are pretty much matching BG/RA. Hers not so much but we have never heard her of course or any of them. However, like I said I'm terrible at judging age and I'd be a terrible eyewitness with anything I never had any reason to think I needed to recall or pay more than passing attention to. If I pay any. She was also at a fair distance. How she could do facial features and such even I have no idea.

I take her more lightly than I do the others and of course Libby's video and the first sketch. They all alignt pretty well. I don't necessarily believe she was there or saw him but I think her memory, description and sight is off. He is pretty much placed where he is by all the others and time frame sewing him in. AND of course he places himself there.
 
Again with the alarms? Is this kids setting them off again?
I do NOT KNOW. I actually thought FINALLY after what a YEAR or more of ALL the time they etierh got rid of whoever, they had moved or somehow stopped it. Of course I have no way of knowing if one ever happens when I am at work but they always were at night and never early either. This one was ten or later wasn't it? usually they are 9, 10. Maybe been an 8 in there once in awhile.

I stayed in and was not going to go out but it seemed I heard more people going than normal and thought maybe I'd better. Usually I don't but coudn't stand the blare either. I need to get some earplugs have NEVER had any and keep forgetting. I'm sure they would not deafen it much. When the rare time I go down if I go outside which I used to as we are to, and I talk to people until we go back in, I sometimes find out what it was, or if talk to someone that talked to a fireman at the end of I see one and ask, etc. This time I went into the garage and pulled out near the garage and sat and waited. Had my phone with, Grabbed keys and DL and bank card. I have not forgotten the one real one when it was a gas leak and we all had to evacuate immediately for hours on end IN THE WINTER, couldn't think to grab what were told to GO and that one we had to leave the lot and all. It was awful. No place to pee, wasnt' dressed for weather, nowhere to go, it was a storm. I had no reason to think such last night but since it had been awhile, I wasn't sure what was up. Anyhow I didn't group with other people, I pulled my car out into a small quieter part of the parking lots. Others do the same, always a few. I did run into a woman in the garage doing the same and briefly talked, my statement was "I am SO SICK OF THIS PLACE" lol and she pretty much agreed. She was sleeping when it went off. Would explain why she was a bit late like me and did not immediately decide to leave either her apt.

And they never tell us what it was, like put out an email or anything and they have lied also at times when it was known to be kids. I suspect it was. I think I told others in the basement or some such but did you read when I said the management threatened to charge all residents if it continued because the FD had had it and was going to charge the corporation for further false alarms and having to come in full force? Explain to me how that is fair when they know/knew who was doing it imo. And they will NOT put up cameras but I think once tried to claim cameras were installed thinking maybe they'd fake the kids and their parents into stopping it?

Anyhow I'm way O/T but no idea. My bet is of course, kids, yet again. BRATS. Let's just say it. I don't think of kids that way for the most part but the ones doing this are and they are going to end up in real trouble some day in their lives as they get older and continue their b.s. The one time I was told about when another resident saw them, the mother was WITH them and the kid just ran over and pulled it. She knew the lady had seen it and she rushed them all out and they left. they were on their way out, so they didn't even have sit, listen to or deal with it and so on.

Enough by me. I am so SICK of not living in a home of my own. Nothing like that does one have to deal with either. Now another apartment inspection I have no time for and can't do on the day they named and am trying to get a hold of them to make it my day off next week to no avail so far and that's pretty normal too. If they want something though or need you to respond, totallky different.

Anyhow that's enough and about it. Ten plus hours today. I talked to two that had done like 12 or 13. Not even sure I knew they did that but I'm not volunteering for that. I've always said I'd do ten (and not every day) but no way. I can use the OT like anyone and the pay even more so than some but 45 is plenty of on your feet all day at my age. It's so weird too, we still have days hours are cut short and coming off cut back of hours the last couple of months. We weren't getting our 40 for some weeks. This happens every year.

Anyhow I had better stop with the O/T and come back to Delphi. I'm not even sure if I ever got TOm's last one finished. And he will likely have another tomorrow. He is going weekly at least now with he amped up filings and approach to trial.
 
I have seen something that shows several sketches but cannot remember where now.


I think they should all be allowed in so that they can be explained. If it wasnt RA on the bridge, then why didnt RA see BG and the girls? We know from the witness who only saw "young" BG from a distance, that she then turned around and passed Libby and Abby heading to the bridge
I don't think they have much of an argument to keep them out. Honestly. None of it is fact, their arguments or anything they haven't argued before when trying to get him moved and so on. Has anyone wondered either why it is just NOW we hear of these others or they claim them. I bet they come after and if they don't they're b.s. These two would have been using these ones with wrong facts WAY back after when RA confessed to his wife and they needed to find a any to distract or fix it or at least at some point in all the months since. They just now "appeared" and RA told them or an iinmate buddy did or something.

I don't think they have a leg to stand on with this. And honestly should be kept out it is these others if there is no video or they are going to claim they happened way back and yet never knew and so on. If there's no recordings or other showing or Rick's day around them and so on. The ones to wife and mom are bona fide and recorded and transcribed. The others are coming from again a defense who well I am not going to trust the veracity of or from RA, etc. and every bit of it is to help get the others thrown out imo. Or to show no confession was fact nor did he know a thing as he got it wrong IN THIS case with the inmate...The facts wrong.

Pretty apparent imo. We will see but I don't think the bona fide ones will be tossed and see no reason why they should be.
 

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