LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well I had hardly anything to read on breaks today on any case and so I can only guess all were busy and most had a nice Mother's Day. Mine was a grueling work day and BUSY. I can't get over how many are in a store on the holiday itself on a beautiful SUMMER temp kind of day. I wouldn't have been if not for work. The daughter here asked my hours but they didn't allow for doing anything before or after but I came home to a very nice gift she left in my apt. that I've been wanting for a time. A FREEZER. And she had also spent time with Frank and Snit and brushed them.

This is the only case thread that had posts to speak of and not many. Tomorrow will bing more as Daybell will be back in swing as it's Monday.

To make the post more case related, Tom is going to do several shows in a week (not typical) when the hearings and decisions are made on the old trial dates on several motions. It wouldn't surprise me though if Gull rules later with a written ruling since NOW there is no trial at this time and no need to make rulings at the actual hearing.

Later.

 

[Tresir]

Well I had hardly anything to read on breaks today on any case and so I can only guess all were busy and most had a nice Mother's Day. Mine was a grueling work day and BUSY. I can't get over how many are in a store on the holiday itself on a beautiful SUMMER temp kind of day. I wouldn't have been if not for work. The daughter here asked my hours but they didn't allow for doing anything before or after but I came home to a very nice gift she left in my apt. that I've been wanting for a time. A FREEZER. And she had also spent time with Frank and Snit and brushed them.

This is the only case thread that had posts to speak of and not many. Tomorrow will bing more as Daybell will be back in swing as it's Monday.

To make the post more case related, Tom is going to do several shows in a week (not typical) when the hearings and decisions are made on the old trial dates on several motions. It wouldn't surprise me though if Gull rules later with a written ruling since NOW there is no trial at this time and no need to make rulings at the actual hearing.

Later.

It's really quiet, even in the basement.

 

[Tresir]

Spelling errors are common and irrelevant in criminal trial papers especially if meaning is obvious and words are repeated and spelled correctly. Stuff has to get filed, if it is a material spelling error that's been filed the author will submit a formal revision to the docket. (Like someone's name is entirely wrong.)

Not certain the first time she refused to recuse, I'd agree it was covered in first the ISC filing.

JMHO

(I had to find a bit of time to search for the redacted email - here it is):

View attachment 22027
View attachment 22028

Thanks for finding that. I cannot see why they needed to include it in the filing, however, do you?

I think spelling and grammar is ultra important, especially in court documents, and their case filing where sloppiness is in question LOL.

So Brad and his buddy O's cannot sue R&B for this at all? I am very surprised. I mean being wrongly accused of murder has got to be right up there. (Morphew comes to mind who sued for $15m.)

 

[Tresir]

Well I had hardly anything to read on breaks today on any case and so I can only guess all were busy and most had a nice Mother's Day. Mine was a grueling work day and BUSY. I can't get over how many are in a store on the holiday itself on a beautiful SUMMER temp kind of day. I wouldn't have been if not for work. The daughter here asked my hours but they didn't allow for doing anything before or after but I came home to a very nice gift she left in my apt. that I've been wanting for a time. A FREEZER. And she had also spent time with Frank and Snit and brushed them.

This is the only case thread that had posts to speak of and not many. Tomorrow will bing more as Daybell will be back in swing as it's Monday.

To make the post more case related, Tom is going to do several shows in a week (not typical) when the hearings and decisions are made on the old trial dates on several motions. It wouldn't surprise me though if Gull rules later with a written ruling since NOW there is no trial at this time and no need to make rulings at the actual hearing.

Later.

Wow! What a lovely gift.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Thanks for finding that. I cannot see why they needed to include it in the filing, however, do you?

I think spelling and grammar is ultra important, especially in court documents, and their case filing where sloppiness is in question LOL.

So Brad and his buddy O's cannot sue R&B for this at all? I am very surprised. I mean being wrongly accused of murder has got to be right up there. (Morphew comes to mind who sued for $15m.)

Yeah and Barry is guilty unlike the "Os". Imo.

I wouldn't count on it but I don't know (ability to use). It isn't like they are govt. employees. Barry was actually incarcerated and charged unless the "Os". However, again he's guilty imo AND leave it to his scumbag of a defense attorney to do such a thing. I don't really the difference though if they can so can these men imo. Different states however.

If there isn't such a line they need not cross, there should be. It's this case suing should be appropriate, not Barry's. He is the prime suspect and not it is more clear than ever and he was with the victim and she was his wife. In this one they can't even place these men there.

I never catch Tom live but I do rewatch the chat and do the questions and answers and someone last night said that in their opinion RA wants and wanted to confess but B & R do not want to lose their chance at fame and fortunate. That's pretty much my opinion and that IS unethical if and malpractice imo if they convinced him otherwise especially to cover their own failures and desires. It was interesting to see that others see what I suspect.

I gather wife and mom were very teary at that court hearing. Over what? Six more months in jail and a trial delay? Over his not being represented the way they'd hoped? Over both and other things? That their attorney can't spell?

If he's so innocent, not sure why they need everything there is thrown out. You know there is no alibi or he would BE out. Why do they want Libby's video thrown out if it can possibly be RA? And so much more.

These two asked if jurors couldn't be asked to stay another week or two or if could/willing. THINK about that. Not you of course, jus everyone. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard and from a professional who arguably should KNOW how things work in his very field and profession. Duh. I can't help it, that deserves a duh.

I'm borderline or perhaps a bit beyond sick of this case. Not to the point of done with it of course, I'll never do that in one I care about nor fail to call out.

Well Rick is back home I gather and no longer at county. They let him be transfered and all else and right down to the last minute on everything. This claim of time at trial is b.s. imo and NM even cut his witnesses down to like 40, well over 1/2 to please them and see it continued. Or offered to. They aren't ready and you know it. Others may not believe that but it was just one final thing again at the last minute to again put a kink in all. Not once with all the other planned trial dates and lengths did they do this. Their entire speedy trial thing was b.s. and you know it. And I know it. It's all desperate tactics as usual. All it does is convince me there is a CASE and a lot they are concerned about AND they can't lose their BIG one and now the also have that GFM lol.

I am sure his wife and mom feel as if they are up and down through an emotional wringer. However, I'm more sympathetic by far with the victims' families. RA isn't DEAD. These two would not even be able to broker him a deal which is perhaps what they should be doing? I did not know there was a RUMOR RA was at his mom's that day prior to going to the trails. It is a rumor and not sure what significance it would have if any other than clearly then probably a day off unless a later shift.

Personally I feel RA is surrounded by people who could just let him stand to his confessions and his intent and for their OWN reasons. Did he CONFESS to Holman back when or trip up big time? I his voice a DEAD ringer for BG? WHAT do they want out the search warrant produced?

How many people did Rick tell back in the day that he was at the trails that day and was fortunate he missed this entire crime and the murderer and went forward to help? I'm guessing not too many. If you were there, left and that's fact and were cleared wouldn't you be telling everyone you knew what a close call, etc., etc. My bet is his wife didn't even know he was there that day. Not then/that day anyhow...

Early morning half awake thoughts. On about three hours sleep. Love these shift when I come off a weekend of 20 hours in two days, close last night and have to be back today at 7;30 a.m. AND we are busier than sh*t. Tomorrow is even earlier but the difference is today I will be home before a late closing time. Since I start earlier, I will be done earlier, that's not as bad but I'd rather have the later shifts quite honestly.

Daybell back on today, Read as well (not seeing a lot on that one though or following as closely). DELPHI OFF TRACK. No surprise lol.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Wow! What a lovely gift.

It is! I have been wanting one for awhile. I have a freezer at my property but the only thing in the apt. is the standard frig freeze and I can't buy and stock, not enough room.

She buys like one bigger gift that is to then cover Mother's Day, my birthday and Christmas for the year. So I won't get a gift on birthday or Christmas from her. I'm okay with that I've done much the same at times but then I cave on the other occasions still sometimes lol but with something smaller. It also doesn't mean I won't see her then or we won't do dinner out or something, etc. on the other occasions or get together with the whole family and so on (Christmas).

 

[Olenna]

Thanks for finding that. I cannot see why they needed to include it in the filing, however, do you?

I think spelling and grammar is ultra important, especially in court documents, and their case filing where sloppiness is in question LOL.

So Brad and his buddy O's cannot sue R&B for this at all? I am very surprised. I mean being wrongly accused of murder has got to be right up there. (Morphew comes to mind who sued for $15m.)

No problem!

IMO (working from memory here) The email topics that stuck out to me ... and that should be on the record include:

a) the commentary on SODDI and the Court's statement as to the bar that must be met per the law as the Court sees it.
b) the fact that the Court had not heard the SODDI arguments, has not seen the evidentiary motions related to any SODDI argument, yet they already set a hard time for the trial before hearing or ruling on SODDI that would preclude the Defense from bringing an SODDI case.
c) the fact that the Court has heard NO evidentiary arguments yet sets a hard trial beginning and end.
d) the fact that the Court interprets jury rights in a manner inconsistent w/ rules.
e) the Court states they have set a HARD immovable end of trial date and if those dates now bother the D, it's the D's fault because "xxx". (I don't recall detail there - but the Court suggests the fault belongs to the D - and such accusations should be on the record.)
f) the implication that the trial schedule the Court set - is b/c the Court anticipated there will be no SODDI defense. (The Court can't anticipate that when they've not read nor heard the evidentiary motions.)
g) the idea that the Court cannot change the estimated dates for trial after noticing a pool of citizens to attend voir dire process.
h) the Court's argument that they've been there done this on unrelated matters, so the Court is therefore correct as to trial timing.

IMO and these above points were covered in the D's motion to hold a hearing (which happened last Tuesday). And that motion included this redacted email as a part of the filing to demand that hearing. And we all saw what happened there, when the D was ready to argue for SODDI or make other evidentiary arguments. Before the D could even bring in evidence, the Court determined that if RA wants that evidence heard, he must give up his speedy trial. Essentially, Hobson's Choice #2.

IMO these portions of the Court's email - which include the Court's assumptions with regard to hearings she's not yet held and evidence she's not yet seen, without an evidence hearing, that the D would only need X time ... are now on the record.

IMO Morphew sure was/is a hot mess! IIRC, in Morphew, the State (and County/LE/FBI) were named by the former murder defendant in an action for defamation/pain/suffering due to wrongful arrest. There's plenty of law on wrongful arrests and remedies/consequences related to the State.
(Civil Rights law at work.)

IMO This is the opposite of a defense litigator being sued for working a criminal or civil defense attacking the plaintiff's/prosecutor's theory and evidence with other theories. Civil Rights are protected via the protections afforded to the accused's legal counsel.

IMO Both the P and the D have filed motions with typos. FWIW, the P's typos are also of no concern. (The P has included entire paragraphs copy/pasted from other cases in error.) And the typo in Hennessey's petition re: the Court's bias will also be irrelevant under Supreme Court review should RA file a 3rd original action.

IMO In this case only the Prosecution has filed motions that wrongly interpreted law, failed to identify the correct law, failed process by filing in the wrong venue and filed a complaint that opposed the State's own position in a related matter (Westerman). Those type of errors matter. Those errors were called out; the motions were challenged and/or revoked and/or defeated in Court b/c (unlike typos) those type of errors do matter.

(Adding IMOs everywhere - for the benefit of those confused by my direct writing style ... ALL of the above is JMHO.)

 

[Tresir]

No problem!

IMO (working from memory here) The email topics that stuck out to me ... and that should be on the record include:

a) the commentary on SODDI and the Court's statement as to the bar that must be met per the law as the Court sees it.
b) the fact that the Court had not heard the SODDI arguments, has not seen the evidentiary motions related to any SODDI argument, yet they already set a hard time for the trial before hearing or ruling on SODDI that would preclude the Defense from bringing an SODDI case.
c) the fact that the Court has heard NO evidentiary arguments yet sets a hard trial beginning and end.
d) the fact that the Court interprets jury rights in a manner inconsistent w/ rules.
e) the Court states they have set a HARD immovable end of trial date and if those dates now bother the D, it's the D's fault because "xxx". (I don't recall detail there - but the Court suggests the fault belongs to the D - and such accusations should be on the record.)
f) the implication that the trial schedule the Court set - is b/c the Court anticipated there will be no SODDI defense. (The Court can't anticipate that when they've not read nor heard the evidentiary motions.)
g) the idea that the Court cannot change the estimated dates for trial after noticing a pool of citizens to attend voir dire process.
h) the Court's argument that they've been there done this on unrelated matters, so the Court is therefore correct as to trial timing.

IMO and these above points were covered in the D's motion to hold a hearing (which happened last Tuesday). And that motion included this redacted email as a part of the filing to demand that hearing. And we all saw what happened there, when the D was ready to argue for SODDI or make other evidentiary arguments. Before the D could even bring in evidence, the Court determined that if RA wants that evidence heard, he must give up his speedy trial. Essentially, Hobson's Choice #2.

IMO these portions of the Court's email - which include the Court's assumptions with regard to hearings she's not yet held and evidence she's not yet seen, without an evidence hearing, that the D would only need X time ... are now on the record.

IMO Morphew sure was/is a hot mess! IIRC, in Morphew, the State (and County/LE/FBI) were named by the former murder defendant in an action for defamation/pain/suffering due to wrongful arrest. There's plenty of law on wrongful arrests and remedies/consequences related to the State.
(Civil Rights law at work.)

IMO This is the opposite of a defense litigator being sued for working a criminal or civil defense attacking the plaintiff's/prosecutor's theory and evidence with other theories. Civil Rights are protected via the protections afforded to the accused's legal counsel.

IMO Both the P and the D have filed motions with typos. FWIW, the P's typos are also of no concern. (The P has included entire paragraphs copy/pasted from other cases in error.) And the typo in Hennessey's petition re: the Court's bias will also be irrelevant under Supreme Court review should RA file a 3rd original action.

IMO In this case only the Prosecution has filed motions that wrongly interpreted law, failed to identify the correct law, failed process by filing in the wrong venue and filed a complaint that opposed the State's own position in a related matter (Westerman). Those type of errors matter. Those errors were called out; the motions were challenged and/or revoked and/or defeated in Court b/c (unlike typos) those type of errors do matter.

(Adding IMOs everywhere - for the benefit of those confused by my direct writing style ... ALL of the above is JMHO.)

I will work backwards to answer. The fact is that P has not been sloppy or delayed anything on this case and are ready for trial. The P are not/have not wasting/wasted their time trying to blame a group of men that have alibis and were seen nowhere near the CS. It is no one's fault but themselves that they (the D) are not ready for trial.

I'll take your word that the P have made errors too. So why didnt the D put in a contempt accusation? Because it wasn't serious. What the D has done was leak graphic CS pictures that will probably not ever be released in open court, much the same as the photos of the remains of the children in the Daybell case.

There has only been these unforgivable and desperate efforts to shore up there non existent evidence in their F memo to attempt to blame it on someone else, at the same time trying to get the search warrant evidence thrown out, knowing full well how damaging that is to their client.

Their new attempt to get rid of the judge is yet just another waste of time, because IMO they have no proper defence and are trying to deflect blame on to Judge Gull because of that.

It's not going to work the second time either so they need to get ready for trial and stop BS'ing about.

 

[Olenna]

I will work backwards to answer. The fact is that P has not been sloppy or delayed anything on this case and are ready for trial. The P are not/have not wasting/wasted their time trying to blame a group of men that have alibis and were seen nowhere near the CS. It is no one's fault but themselves that they (the D) are not ready for trial.

I'll take your word that the P have made errors too. So why didnt the D put in a contempt accusation? Because it wasn't serious. What the D has done was leak graphic CS pictures that will probably not ever be released in open court, much the same as the photos of the remains of the children in the Daybell case.

There has only been these unforgivable and desperate efforts to shore up there non existent evidence in their F memo to attempt to blame it on someone else, at the same time trying to get the search warrant evidence thrown out, knowing full well how damaging that is to their client.

Their new attempt to get rid of the judge is yet just another waste of time, because IMO they have no proper defence and are trying to deflect blame on to Judge Gull because of that.

It's not going to work the second time either so they need to get ready for trial and stop BS'ing about.

Just real quick - to let you know - The D has filed at least one contempt motion against the P (for failing to provide exculpatory discovery). I'd have to dig to see if there was more than one contempt motion from D about the P, but I sort of think there were two of these? The one I'm thinking of - the Court denied the motion without a hearing for that motion. Many here are not interested in the D's filings so some may have missed this.

You may recall that the P-filed criminal contempt (against the D) was scheduled for a hearing in spite of it being a legally erroneous filing, and filed at the wrong venue. (The actions the P accused the D of doing - even if provable - did not meet the definition of criminal contempt, etc. Because the P was going after the D and not RA, the matter could not procedurally be heard under RA's trial docket, and Gull was obligated to remove herself from hearing the motion due to conflicts). (See Ausbrook's letter to the Court explaining applicable law.) Ausbrook's was a D-supportive filing, so some may have missed this.

IMO The Court never required an amended filing from the P. Instead, Judge Gull responded on the docket that the Court took Ausbrook's filing under advisement. And the Court then set the contempt hearing (setting under RA's case #, knowing that was a process error - possibly a structural error) at the back-end of another hearing on the RA matter. After the contempt hearing, Judge Gull found no contempt and found that NOTHING was even sanctionable by the Court; sent it for an ethics review to an AG department (that Hennessey soon advised her was the wrong entity for the ethics review she requested). (sigh) Hennessey is RA's lawyers' lawyer; those not interested in the D's filings but this one is the "demeanig" filing and maybe that one was read..

(IMO and As to why the Court heard an erroneous filing that didn't belong in the Court ... I've tried to reason through why a Court might be motivated to hear a wrongful filing, and one that didn't belong in their Court for procedural reasons - where any guilty decision is guaranteed to be overturned by the appellate. (See Ausbrook again). Perhaps the Court understood how the contempt hearing was doomed and what her ruling would have to be, and sincerely felt keeping this leaks matter under the Court's control would serve all parties better.

IMO in retrospect the wasting time, the Contempt Hearing certainly proved to be a waste of time. With respect to "wasting time", we'll likely hear more from the the appellate as to the latest Hobson's Choice for RA to have the defense w/ SODDI and related witnesses ... or having a speedy trial and abandon RA's defense theory as planned.

IMO I'd need to wait to see the D's new recusal motion before being able to consider this recusal request as a legal winner or loser for an original action.

JMHO and a good week to all.

 

[Tresir]

Yeah and Barry is guilty unlike the "Os". Imo.

I wouldn't count on it but I don't know (ability to use). It isn't like they are govt. employees. Barry was actually incarcerated and charged unless the "Os". However, again he's guilty imo AND leave it to his scumbag of a defense attorney to do such a thing. I don't really the difference though if they can so can these men imo. Different states however.

If there isn't such a line they need not cross, there should be. It's this case suing should be appropriate, not Barry's. He is the prime suspect and not it is more clear than ever and he was with the victim and she was his wife. In this one they can't even place these men there.

I never catch Tom live but I do rewatch the chat and do the questions and answers and someone last night said that in their opinion RA wants and wanted to confess but B & R do not want to lose their chance at fame and fortunate. That's pretty much my opinion and that IS unethical if and malpractice imo if they convinced him otherwise especially to cover their own failures and desires. It was interesting to see that others see what I suspect.

I gather wife and mom were very teary at that court hearing. Over what? Six more months in jail and a trial delay? Over his not being represented the way they'd hoped? Over both and other things? That their attorney can't spell?

If he's so innocent, not sure why they need everything there is thrown out. You know there is no alibi or he would BE out. Why do they want Libby's video thrown out if it can possibly be RA? And so much more.

These two asked if jurors couldn't be asked to stay another week or two or if could/willing. THINK about that. Not you of course, jus everyone. This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard and from a professional who arguably should KNOW how things work in his very field and profession. Duh. I can't help it, that deserves a duh.

I'm borderline or perhaps a bit beyond sick of this case. Not to the point of done with it of course, I'll never do that in one I care about nor fail to call out.

Well Rick is back home I gather and no longer at county. They let him be transfered and all else and right down to the last minute on everything. This claim of time at trial is b.s. imo and NM even cut his witnesses down to like 40, well over 1/2 to please them and see it continued. Or offered to. They aren't ready and you know it. Others may not believe that but it was just one final thing again at the last minute to again put a kink in all. Not once with all the other planned trial dates and lengths did they do this. Their entire speedy trial thing was b.s. and you know it. And I know it. It's all desperate tactics as usual. All it does is convince me there is a CASE and a lot they are concerned about AND they can't lose their BIG one and now the also have that GFM lol.

I am sure his wife and mom feel as if they are up and down through an emotional wringer. However, I'm more sympathetic by far with the victims' families. RA isn't DEAD. These two would not even be able to broker him a deal which is perhaps what they should be doing? I did not know there was a RUMOR RA was at his mom's that day prior to going to the trails. It is a rumor and not sure what significance it would have if any other than clearly then probably a day off unless a later shift.

Personally I feel RA is surrounded by people who could just let him stand to his confessions and his intent and for their OWN reasons. Did he CONFESS to Holman back when or trip up big time? I his voice a DEAD ringer for BG? WHAT do they want out the search warrant produced?

How many people did Rick tell back in the day that he was at the trails that day and was fortunate he missed this entire crime and the murderer and went forward to help? I'm guessing not too many. If you were there, left and that's fact and were cleared wouldn't you be telling everyone you knew what a close call, etc., etc. My bet is his wife didn't even know he was there that day. Not then/that day anyhow...

Early morning half awake thoughts. On about three hours sleep. Love these shift when I come off a weekend of 20 hours in two days, close last night and have to be back today at 7;30 a.m. AND we are busier than sh*t. Tomorrow is even earlier but the difference is today I will be home before a late closing time. Since I start earlier, I will be done earlier, that's not as bad but I'd rather have the later shifts quite honestly.

Daybell back on today, Read as well (not seeing a lot on that one though or following as closely). DELPHI OFF TRACK. No surprise lol.

Agree with all your points. The D basically want everything thrown out don't they? And there own F theory substituted instead. It's just never going to happen and they need to start working on their clients actual case instead.

 

[Tresir]

Just real quick - to let you know - The D has filed at least one contempt motion against the P (for failing to provide exculpatory discovery). I'd have to dig to see if there was more than one contempt motion from D about the P, but I sort of think there were two of these? The one I'm thinking of - the Court denied the motion without a hearing for that motion. Many here are not interested in the D's filings so some may have missed this.

You may recall that the P-filed criminal contempt (against the D) was scheduled for a hearing in spite of it being a legally erroneous filing, and filed at the wrong venue. (The actions the P accused the D of doing - even if provable - did not meet the definition of criminal contempt, etc. Because the P was going after the D and not RA, the matter could not procedurally be heard under RA's trial docket, and Gull was obligated to remove herself from hearing the motion due to conflicts). (See Ausbrook's letter to the Court explaining applicable law.) Ausbrook's was a D-supportive filing, so some may have missed this.

IMO The Court never required an amended filing from the P. Instead, Judge Gull responded on the docket that the Court took Ausbrook's filing under advisement. And the Court then set the contempt hearing (setting under RA's case #, knowing that was a process error - possibly a structural error) at the back-end of another hearing on the RA matter. After the contempt hearing, Judge Gull found no contempt and found that NOTHING was even sanctionable by the Court; sent it for an ethics review to an AG department (that Hennessey soon advised her was the wrong entity for the ethics review she requested). (sigh) Hennessey is RA's lawyers' lawyer; those not interested in the D's filings but this one is the "demeanig" filing and maybe that one was read..

(IMO and As to why the Court heard an erroneous filing that didn't belong in the Court ... I've tried to reason through why a Court might be motivated to hear a wrongful filing, and one that didn't belong in their Court for procedural reasons - where any guilty decision is guaranteed to be overturned by the appellate. (See Ausbrook again). Perhaps the Court understood how the contempt hearing was doomed and what her ruling would have to be, and sincerely felt keeping this leaks matter under the Court's control would serve all parties better.

IMO in retrospect the wasting time, the Contempt Hearing certainly proved to be a waste of time. With respect to "wasting time", we'll likely hear more from the the appellate as to the latest Hobson's Choice for RA to have the defense w/ SODDI and related witnesses ... or having a speedy trial and abandon RA's defense theory as planned.

IMO I'd need to wait to see the D's new recusal motion before being able to consider this recusal request as a legal winner or loser for an original action.

JMHO and a good week to all.

Trouble is all these things are why the D are not ready for defending their client and it has had to be postponed for 5 months. If they are just going to use that 5 months to continue to attack the judge and the P then they won't be ready in October either. I am beginning to think the ISC should not have reinstated them. Perhaps that is why Lebrato changed sides in the court the other day and is keeping up on the case.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Agree with all your points. The D basically want everything thrown out don't they? And there own F theory substituted instead. It's just never going to happen and they need to start working on their clients actual case instead.

NO SH*T and that's becoming a bit of a consensus I think among some/many formerly not seeing it out there from what I'm seeing. Most tare seeing defense is NOT doing their job. They can throw this stuff but each time they are up, they still haven't done their work on the actual CASE. Defenses are known to delay, file tons of things to delay or tie up the time of courts and the other side, etc., to a point not unusual but then they also come during the years here and there to a real hearing or the real trial and shebang and it is obvious these two have never done their homework nor prepared, all they have been doing is the other stuff so they they desperately try for another delay and get it usually and then it comes again as it will in October but the will have again used all their time trying to do the same old. Defenses do such BUT they generally MOST are also prepared if they have to be to GO if no delay is granted. They can blame prosecution or whoever for just so long and there may have been some of that but there have also been triplicate requests from D for things even from the Clerk etc. they ALREADY HAVE and apparently lost?? It's a fine line between trying to look like a great D attorney in a nationally followed case and a bumbling idiot. They aren't getting you can throw the spaghetti but at the same TIME need to be preparing and DOING your job. Imo. They tell Gull she doesn't know the case. Lol. Excuse me? I'm not saying she does, she's the judge-- but they sure the HE77 should.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Trouble is all these things are why the D are not ready for defending their client and it has had to be postponed for 5 months. If they are just going to use that 5 months to continue to attack the judge and the P then they won't be ready in October either. I am beginning to think the ISC should not have reinstated them. Perhaps that is why Lebrato changed sides in the court the other day and is keeping up on the case.

Exactly. They can throw their sh*t and attack the judge and decisions and the P and so on but at the same TIME they should be PREPPED and ready to GO. I am seeing more and more out there realizing this. It isn't going to fly any longer and barely did this time, it certainly won't with most public opinion in October if they do such yet again. RIGHT NOW they are probably doing FM I forget the #s 5, 6, 7, 8 & 9. Filing for recusal, sending some dumb lengthy thing to the ISC etc. and NOT preparing to try this case! You don't also await DECISIONS to be ready to try the case IF those decisions don't go your way. You should be READY EITHER WAY and alongside such can still be filing other. READY for whatever way that might go regardless!! They are junk attorneys. Imo.

 

[Olenna]

Trouble is all these things are why the D are not ready for defending their client and it has had to be postponed for 5 months. If they are just going to use that 5 months to continue to attack the judge and the P then they won't be ready in October either. I am beginning to think the ISC should not have reinstated them. Perhaps that is why Lebrato changed sides in the court the other day and is keeping up on the case.

IMO Latest filings indicate that the D was still receiving exculpatory evidence from the P on April 26 2024, and more was expected, along with late-rolling confession evidence details. It seems to me the D can make use of more time for late-arriving discovery review, witness prep and expert reviews. Yesterday the D petitioned for a) more funds for Auger (their FBI interviewer and phone/geo-tracking trained lawyer) and b) vacating the safekeeping order so RA can be held in a closer jail pre-trial.

IMO The D can spend 5 months refining their case. The D's Appellate expert work is handled by another pro-bono team (Weineke, etc.). The D's Appellate team has not stopped advising; appellate strategy has been clear in the D's filings. It's the Appellate team's role to check the Court, not the D's. So the D will focus on the case - not the Court. The P can spend 5 months doing the same.

IMO I agree that the contempt hearing circus and last week's hearing confirmed there's unrecoverable animosity between D, P, and the Court. Without a recusal by SJG, there's a strong chance another original action will be filed. On top of that, RA's holding conditions raise the likelihood that a Court decision to allow prison confessions will lead to an interlocutory appeal at the 2nd department.

IMO ... It is what it is; but this case is a twisty mess because of:
a) the meandering 5 year investigation and the failure of Command to centralize and preserve the investigation/discovery,
b) the resultant errors and discovery losses from the investigation along the way,
c) the slow pace of discovery being disclosed to the D,
d) Diener's failure to hold a safekeeping hearing where RA had representation resulting in extraordinarily harsh pre-trial detainment conditions,
e) the social media/youtuber circus interruption/sideshow and the Court AND Prosecution's attempt to remove RA's defense counsel.
f) two Courts efforts (Diener/Gull) to seal away from the public info that must be available to the public

Above all JMHO on the current state of play and the persistent issues causing tensions and delays.

2024 5/13 MotionVacateSafekeeping

2024 5/13 PetitionForFunds

 

[Tresir]

IMO Latest filings indicate that the D was still receiving exculpatory evidence from the P on April 26 2024, and more was expected, along with late-rolling confession evidence details. It seems to me the D can make use of more time for late-arriving discovery review, witness prep and expert reviews. Yesterday the D petitioned for a) more funds for Auger (their FBI interviewer and phone/geo-tracking trained lawyer) and b) vacating the safekeeping order so RA can be held in a closer jail pre-trial.

IMO The D can spend 5 months refining their case. The D's Appellate expert work is handled by another pro-bono team (Weineke, etc.). The D's Appellate team has not stopped advising; appellate strategy has been clear in the D's filings. It's the Appellate team's role to check the Court, not the D's. So the D will focus on the case - not the Court. The P can spend 5 months doing the same.

IMO I agree that the contempt hearing circus and last week's hearing confirmed there's unrecoverable animosity between D, P, and the Court. Without a recusal by SJG, there's a strong chance another original action will be filed. On top of that, RA's holding conditions raise the likelihood that a Court decision to allow prison confessions will lead to an interlocutory appeal at the 2nd department.

IMO ... It is what it is; but this case is a twisty mess because of:
a) the meandering 5 year investigation and the failure of Command to centralize and preserve the investigation/discovery,
b) the resultant errors and discovery losses from the investigation along the way,
c) the slow pace of discovery being disclosed to the D,
d) Diener's failure to hold a safekeeping hearing where RA had representation resulting in extraordinarily harsh pre-trial detainment conditions,
e) the social media/youtuber circus interruption/sideshow and the Court AND Prosecution's attempt to remove RA's defense counsel.
f) two Courts efforts (Diener/Gull) to seal away from the public info that must be available to the public

Above all JMHO on the current state of play and the persistent issues causing tensions and delays.

2024 5/13 MotionVacateSafekeeping

2024 5/13 PetitionForFunds

I don't agree it has anything to do with the length of time since the crime happened at all. So disagree on a, b and c. And, of course, if new legitimate evidence comes up - like the geofencing for example, then such reports or new data could be late. d) was nearly 18 months ago now and is old news, with e) and f) being the fault of the D and their consultant, which they initially denied, but then in the face of a subsequent suicide, they had to come clean. Regarding e) Weineke has been doing her own leaking to SM quite a bit too IMO.

Will check out the two new motions. Thanks for posting.

ETA have read the motions.

Safekeeping -
So they want to keep him in Cass or Tippecanoe from now on. They don't mention if those jails can cope with the suicide threat or the Mental Health issues though, unless I missed it. Are those jails equipped to cope with 24 hour suicide watches for RA? Do they have MH staff available 24/7? But of course it is much easier and closer for the attorneys' convenience and travel time.


50% more funding requested-
Funding request for a third ( actually fourth if we count Wieneke) solicitor - Auger. So now RA will have at least three top rated paid Lawyers representing him (plus one pro bono) instead of two (= 50% increase by my calculation)

Auger appears to be an expert in cell phones and geofencing and will help with interpreting and coordinating with FBI experts. Plus interpreting discovery and other stuff too.

No more excuses for not reading the discovery from now on then - With four top lawyers defending him. (Three funded plus one pro bono right?)

Compare this with Daybell, (a triple murder of two children and one adult) who has only one mediocre local lawyer, and this looks way excessive and OTT to me.

If it gets denied, I would not be surprised TBF.

ETA2 In para 2 you mention "another pro bono team (Weineke etc)" in your post. Who is the other pro bono team on the case?

 

[Olenna]

I don't agree it has anything to do with the length of time since the crime happened at all. So disagree on a, b and c. And, of course, if new legitimate evidence comes up - like the geofencing for example, then such reports or new data could be late. d) was nearly 18 months ago now and is old news, with e) and f) being the fault of the D and their consultant, which they initially denied, but then in the face of a subsequent suicide, they had to come clean. Regarding e) Weineke has been doing her own leaking to SM quite a bit too IMO.

Will check out the two new motions. Thanks for posting.

ETA have read the motions.

Safekeeping -
So they want to keep him in Cass or Tippecanoe from now on. They don't mention if those jails can cope with the suicide threat or the Mental Health issues though, unless I missed it. Are those jails equipped to cope with 24 hour suicide watches for RA? Do they have MH staff available 24/7? But of course it is much easier and closer for the attorneys' convenience and travel time.


50% more funding requested-
Funding request for a third ( actually fourth if we count Wieneke) solicitor - Auger. So now RA will have at least three top rated paid Lawyers representing him (plus one pro bono) instead of two (= 50% increase by my calculation)

Auger appears to be an expert in cell phones and geofencing and will help with interpreting and coordinating with FBI experts. Plus interpreting discovery and other stuff too.

No more excuses for not reading the discovery from now on then - With four top lawyers defending him. (Three funded plus one pro bono right?)

Compare this with Daybell, (a triple murder of two children and one adult) who has only one mediocre local lawyer, and this looks way excessive and OTT to me.

If it gets denied, I would not be surprised TBF.

ETA2 In para 2 you mention "another pro bono team (Weineke etc)" in your post. Who is the other pro bono team on the case?

Weineke only does appellate work - a specialist. She has 2 more appellate attys in her firm that worked RA's Supreme Court matters last round. Don't remember name off top of my head, sorry. Ausbrook has shown up for the Contempt hearing for the Defense lawyers themselves (and not RA) pro-bono. But he's probono and he has indicated he's ready to take the case to the 2nd department at the right time (pro-bono). Weineke tweets and is not subject to Gull's gag order. Ausbrook same.

But yes, with Auger there are three RA lawyers on this case for trial. Yes, Auger is an FBI (and tech) specialist.
Wait. Baldwin and Rozzi are incompetent sloppy and negligent - so they certainly can't be considered top rated - right?

Somehow I've missed the medical documentation that RA is suicidal and needs 24/7 mental health staff... we're a year beyond his acting out.

I agree that Gull will deny all the D's motions ... limine, evidentiary, suppression, franks, recusal ... every single one of them.

Thus ... a likely sidetrip to the SC.
Re Daybell; take a step back; compare the dynamics. Daybell discovery/investigation is remotely comparable to RA.
Daybell's wife was already found guilty of the same murders they were both accused of with the bodies found on their property. Also , Daybell case didn't involve 150+ professional investigation/forensics team, nor 5 years of investigation discovery and a hundred other potential suspects.
(Are folks wondering why Daybell hasn't pled?) In RA's case nobody was buried on his land and his attorneys all think he could very well be innocent; in spite of the confessions.

JMHO

 

[Tresir]

Weineke only does appellate work - a specialist. She has 2 more appellate attys in her firm that worked RA's Supreme Court matters last round. Don't remember name off top of my head, sorry. Ausbrook has shown up for the Contempt hearing for the Defense lawyers themselves (and not RA) pro-bono. But he's probono and he has indicated he's ready to take the case to the 2nd department at the right time (pro-bono). Weineke tweets and is not subject to Gull's gag order. Ausbrook same.

But yes, with Auger there are three RA lawyers on this case for trial. Yes, Auger is an FBI (and tech) specialist.
Wait. Baldwin and Rozzi are incompetent sloppy and negligent - so they certainly can't be considered top rated - right?

Somehow I've missed the medical documentation that RA is suicidal and needs 24/7 mental health staff... we're a year beyond his acting out.

I agree that Gull will deny all the D's motions ... limine, evidentiary, suppression, franks, recusal ... every single one of them.

Thus ... a likely sidetrip to the SC.
Re Daybell; take a step back; compare the dynamics. Daybell discovery/investigation is remotely comparable to RA.
Daybell's wife was already found guilty of the same murders they were both accused of with the bodies found on their property. Also , Daybell case didn't involve 150+ professional investigation/forensics team, nor 5 years of investigation discovery and a hundred other potential suspects.
(Are folks wondering why Daybell hasn't pled?) In RA's case nobody was buried on his land and his attorneys all think he could very well be innocent; in spite of the confessions.

JMHO

Weineke only does appellate work - a specialist. She has 2 more appellate attys in her firm that worked RA's Supreme Court matters last round.

Wait - Weineke plus 2 more pro bono appellate lawyers so now 6 lawyers on RA's case.

Wait. Baldwin and Rozzi are incompetent sloppy and negligent - so they certainly can't be considered top rated - right?

Based on their rate of pay, they are top rated - B, R and A

Somehow I've missed the medical documentation that RA is suicidal and needs 24/7 mental health staff... we're a year beyond his acting out.

It is fact he has been on 24/7 suicide watch and had MH meltdowns and assessments. Don't be disingenuous. If his lawyers think he is not a risk anymore then I am sure they can get a report from Wabash to confirm that turnaround. As well as have the inmate witnesses testify.

Re Daybell; take a step back.......etc

Your facts on Daybell do not appear to be accurate. We are on day 23 and still hearing prosecution experts. No I am not counting them.

 

[Tresir]

I'd add wasn't the other shoe found with the girls, believe Tom said as much as well. It would seem to me if trying to get rid of DNA, it would be both and unsure why DNA would be on shoes to begin with... I think the tie dyed shirt was found there Libby had on, I do recall him saying that. I believe the shoe was Libby's. He was wondering about another time thought perhaps her underwear but wasn's sure but they were missing it is thought? Wasn't a sock missing too? Man I just watched it and can't recall it all. I may have to watch again, it was only like 6 minutes.

SPEAKING OF TOM: Just started his weekly Sunday video. Said there were only a few filings this week and right out of the gate was one by the P who wants the reports of a psychologist entered. Though typically confidential they say there ware exceptions and one is for homicide trials when such statements relate to fact or circumstance of the homicide directly they are admissible.

I'm not even TWO minutes in Did we know this? I don't recall anyone sharing this this past week that this was filed by the P. His goose is cooked imo. They'd only want such because of confession and facts.

Just reread this and saw the mention of a psychologist report. Very interesting.

Found a link

Prosecution in Delphi murders case asks to admit statements made to psychologist

Richard Allen was arrested in 2022 for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German.

www.wishtv.com

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case filed a motion to get statements Richard Allen made to a psychologist admitted as evidence in the case.

Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

Normally, anything said to a psychologist is covered under doctor-patient confidentiality and cannot be repeated.

The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

In previous filings, the prosecution has said that Allen has confessed to murdering the teen girls to multiple people over a period of time.

The filing Wednesday appears to be adding another person to that list, this time in the form of a psychologist who has evaluated Allen.

Also Wednesday, Allen’s attorneys filed a motion asking Special Judge Fran Gull to strike comments from the record that she made about them during her ruling finding the attorney’s not in contempt of court.

In that ruling, the judge from Allen County said she found Allen’s attorneys to be sloppy, negligent, and incompetent because of the leak of crime scene photos that came from their office. Those are the statements the defense team now wants taken out of the record in this case. The defense attorneys say the comments are gratuitous and demeaning, and illustrate bias by Gull against them, which they claim is another reason Gull should recuse herself from the case.

On Tuesday, the defense team said they were going to electronically file a 24-page motion asking for Gull to be removed. That would be the second time they’ve filed a motion like that. As of Wednesday night, the defense has not filed that motion.

Also on Tuesday, the judge pushed back the start of the trial at the defense attorney’s request for more time. The trial is now set for Oct. 14 through Nov. 15.

 

[Olenna]

Weineke only does appellate work - a specialist. She has 2 more appellate attys in her firm that worked RA's Supreme Court matters last round.

Wait - Weineke plus 2 more pro bono appellate lawyers so now 6 lawyers on RA's case.

Wait. Baldwin and Rozzi are incompetent sloppy and negligent - so they certainly can't be considered top rated - right?

Based on their rate of pay, they are top rated - B, R and A

Somehow I've missed the medical documentation that RA is suicidal and needs 24/7 mental health staff... we're a year beyond his acting out.

It is fact he has been on 24/7 suicide watch and had MH meltdowns and assessments. Don't be disingenuous. If his lawyers think he is not a risk anymore then I am sure they can get a report from Wabash to confirm that turnaround. As well as have the inmate witnesses testify.

Re Daybell; take a step back.......etc

Your facts on Daybell do not appear to be accurate. We are on day 23 and still hearing prosecution experts. No I am not counting them.

(You're right, I'm not following Daybell. Given your comment above, I probably don't understood the point you were making comparing RA's public defense compensation to Daybell's private lawyer. I wasn't focused on compensation arrangements. I'm sure the Daybell is really interesting.)

 

[Olenna]

Just reread this and saw the mention of a psychologist report. Very interesting.

Found a link

Prosecution in Delphi murders case asks to admit statements made to psychologist

Richard Allen was arrested in 2022 for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail Williams and 14-year-old Liberty German.

www.wishtv.com

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case filed a motion to get statements Richard Allen made to a psychologist admitted as evidence in the case.

Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

Normally, anything said to a psychologist is covered under doctor-patient confidentiality and cannot be repeated.

The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

In previous filings, the prosecution has said that Allen has confessed to murdering the teen girls to multiple people over a period of time.

The filing Wednesday appears to be adding another person to that list, this time in the form of a psychologist who has evaluated Allen.

Also Wednesday, Allen’s attorneys filed a motion asking Special Judge Fran Gull to strike comments from the record that she made about them during her ruling finding the attorney’s not in contempt of court.

In that ruling, the judge from Allen County said she found Allen’s attorneys to be sloppy, negligent, and incompetent because of the leak of crime scene photos that came from their office. Those are the statements the defense team now wants taken out of the record in this case. The defense attorneys say the comments are gratuitous and demeaning, and illustrate bias by Gull against them, which they claim is another reason Gull should recuse herself from the case.

On Tuesday, the defense team said they were going to electronically file a 24-page motion asking for Gull to be removed. That would be the second time they’ve filed a motion like that. As of Wednesday night, the defense has not filed that motion.

Also on Tuesday, the judge pushed back the start of the trial at the defense attorney’s request for more time. The trial is now set for Oct. 14 through Nov. 15.

Yes, this one is interesting; the psychologist is a state actor ... and the motion offers legal arguments that the Court must hear/resolve to bypass privacy (HIPPA) issues re: this witness.