LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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(You're right, I'm not following Daybell. Given your comment above, I probably don't understood the point you were making comparing RA's public defense compensation to Daybell's private lawyer. I wasn't focused on compensation arrangements. I'm sure the Daybell is really interesting.)
It's convenient and simple for us to compare because we are following both cases and they involve the horrific murders of two children within the last 5-7 years, plus and the accuseds in both cases have pled not guilty. One lawyer versus 6 for defence is a big difference however one looks at it.

Also a lot of phone and geofence data in both cases to place the accuseds at the scenes.
 
Just reread this and saw the mention of a psychologist report. Very interesting.

Found a link


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case filed a motion to get statements Richard Allen made to a psychologist admitted as evidence in the case.

Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

Normally, anything said to a psychologist is covered under doctor-patient confidentiality and cannot be repeated.

The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

In previous filings, the prosecution has said that Allen has confessed to murdering the teen girls to multiple people over a period of time.

The filing Wednesday appears to be adding another person to that list, this time in the form of a psychologist who has evaluated Allen.

Also Wednesday, Allen’s attorneys filed a motion asking Special Judge Fran Gull to strike comments from the record that she made about them during her ruling finding the attorney’s not in contempt of court.

In that ruling, the judge from Allen County said she found Allen’s attorneys to be sloppy, negligent, and incompetent because of the leak of crime scene photos that came from their office. Those are the statements the defense team now wants taken out of the record in this case. The defense attorneys say the comments are gratuitous and demeaning, and illustrate bias by Gull against them, which they claim is another reason Gull should recuse herself from the case.

On Tuesday, the defense team said they were going to electronically file a 24-page motion asking for Gull to be removed. That would be the second time they’ve filed a motion like that. As of Wednesday night, the defense has not filed that motion.

Also on Tuesday, the judge pushed back the start of the trial at the defense attorney’s request for more time. The trial is now set for Oct. 14 through Nov. 15.
Yeah believe I mentioned this above and commented how it is odd how defense motions are mentioned but then when a State one is filled it is often uhm not noticed or some such. Saw it out of the gate with Tom the other night.

Haven't had time to catch up here but have read some not all on break. Will be doing so when I get a moment. Agree with most of your posts I've seen. Disagree a lot with some of others. Go figure. Lol.

Have a good one everyone!
 
It's convenient and simple for us to compare because we are following both cases and they involve the horrific murders of two children within the last 5-7 years, plus and the accuseds in both cases have pled not guilty. One lawyer versus 6 for defence is a big difference however one looks at it.

Also a lot of phone and geofence data in both cases to place the accuseds at the scenes.
Sounds very fun to follow both. Darn. IRL I've hard time limits atm.
 
Sounds very fun to follow both. Darn. IRL I've hard time limits atm.
Definitely not very fun, very gruesome, many graphic warnings, as this one will no doubt be as well. At least we don't have to follow both trials at the same time, which is probably for the best as it would have been too much methinks.

ETA if you do get any time I would recommend it. It must run for another week at least as P hasn't even finished yet.
 
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Definitely not very fun, very gruesome, many graphic warnings, as this one will no doubt be as well. At least we don't have to follow both trials at the same time, which is probably for the best as it would have been too much methinks.

ETA if you do get any time I would recommend it. It must run for another week at least as P hasn't even finished yet.

I can’t follow the Daybell case too much. It's too upsetting. I'm waiting for the outcome.
 
I can’t follow the Daybell case too much. It's too upsetting. I'm waiting for the outcome.
Gosh I didn't mean to say any murder story is fun. I do like following cases and getting victims justice and in retrospect I suppose the word fun was a very poor choice. But we do have some "comraderie" in the forum(s) for the cases, if you will. :yaya:
 
I can’t follow the Daybell case too much. It's too upsetting. I'm waiting for the outcome.
State has just rested in Daybell so defence is up but have asked for a direction from the judge. I don't know what that means at the moment or when any defence witnesses will be called. Possibly not today anyway so popped back on here to catch up.

Well that didn't take long - no new posts.
 
No problem!

IMO (working from memory here) The email topics that stuck out to me ... and that should be on the record include:

a) the commentary on SODDI and the Court's statement as to the bar that must be met per the law as the Court sees it.
b) the fact that the Court had not heard the SODDI arguments, has not seen the evidentiary motions related to any SODDI argument, yet they already set a hard time for the trial before hearing or ruling on SODDI that would preclude the Defense from bringing an SODDI case.
c) the fact that the Court has heard NO evidentiary arguments yet sets a hard trial beginning and end.
d) the fact that the Court interprets jury rights in a manner inconsistent w/ rules.
e) the Court states they have set a HARD immovable end of trial date and if those dates now bother the D, it's the D's fault because "xxx". (I don't recall detail there - but the Court suggests the fault belongs to the D - and such accusations should be on the record.)
f) the implication that the trial schedule the Court set - is b/c the Court anticipated there will be no SODDI defense. (The Court can't anticipate that when they've not read nor heard the evidentiary motions.)
g) the idea that the Court cannot change the estimated dates for trial after noticing a pool of citizens to attend voir dire process.
h) the Court's argument that they've been there done this on unrelated matters, so the Court is therefore correct as to trial timing.

IMO and these above points were covered in the D's motion to hold a hearing (which happened last Tuesday). And that motion included this redacted email as a part of the filing to demand that hearing. And we all saw what happened there, when the D was ready to argue for SODDI or make other evidentiary arguments. Before the D could even bring in evidence, the Court determined that if RA wants that evidence heard, he must give up his speedy trial. Essentially, Hobson's Choice #2.

IMO these portions of the Court's email - which include the Court's assumptions with regard to hearings she's not yet held and evidence she's not yet seen, without an evidence hearing, that the D would only need X time ... are now on the record.

IMO Morphew sure was/is a hot mess! IIRC, in Morphew, the State (and County/LE/FBI) were named by the former murder defendant in an action for defamation/pain/suffering due to wrongful arrest. There's plenty of law on wrongful arrests and remedies/consequences related to the State.
(Civil Rights law at work.)

IMO This is the opposite of a defense litigator being sued for working a criminal or civil defense attacking the plaintiff's/prosecutor's theory and evidence with other theories. Civil Rights are protected via the protections afforded to the accused's legal counsel.

IMO Both the P and the D have filed motions with typos. FWIW, the P's typos are also of no concern. (The P has included entire paragraphs copy/pasted from other cases in error.) And the typo in Hennessey's petition re: the Court's bias will also be irrelevant under Supreme Court review should RA file a 3rd original action.

IMO In this case only the Prosecution has filed motions that wrongly interpreted law, failed to identify the correct law, failed process by filing in the wrong venue and filed a complaint that opposed the State's own position in a related matter (Westerman). Those type of errors matter. Those errors were called out; the motions were challenged and/or revoked and/or defeated in Court b/c (unlike typos) those type of errors do matter.

(Adding IMOs everywhere - for the benefit of those confused by my direct writing style ... ALL of the above is JMHO.)
You can pepper it with IMOs and say one does not understand your direct writing style and you still insert things as if fact. Without links and so forth.

I don't even have the time to go into this one but saw it the other day and left it. No time and still not enough. Daybell is HOT, this one is the same old. And life is just as busy for all as ever.

I don't like he defense atty in Daybell, not uncommon for those wanting justice to feel that way but I can say he is doing his JOB unless the two in this case. Or how many is it now....? And doing it by SELF. And it is a DP case on top of it. And he is not death qualified. Although after this he can get qualified as such pretty easily.
 
I don't agree it has anything to do with the length of time since the crime happened at all. So disagree on a, b and c. And, of course, if new legitimate evidence comes up - like the geofencing for example, then such reports or new data could be late. d) was nearly 18 months ago now and is old news, with e) and f) being the fault of the D and their consultant, which they initially denied, but then in the face of a subsequent suicide, they had to come clean. Regarding e) Weineke has been doing her own leaking to SM quite a bit too IMO.

Will check out the two new motions. Thanks for posting.

ETA have read the motions.

Safekeeping -
So they want to keep him in Cass or Tippecanoe from now on. They don't mention if those jails can cope with the suicide threat or the Mental Health issues though, unless I missed it. Are those jails equipped to cope with 24 hour suicide watches for RA? Do they have MH staff available 24/7? But of course it is much easier and closer for the attorneys' convenience and travel time.


50% more funding requested-
Funding request for a third ( actually fourth if we count Wieneke) solicitor - Auger. So now RA will have at least three top rated paid Lawyers representing him (plus one pro bono) instead of two (= 50% increase by my calculation)

Auger appears to be an expert in cell phones and geofencing and will help with interpreting and coordinating with FBI experts. Plus interpreting discovery and other stuff too.

No more excuses for not reading the discovery from now on then - With four top lawyers defending him. (Three funded plus one pro bono right?)

Compare this with Daybell, (a triple murder of two children and one adult) who has only one mediocre local lawyer, and this looks way excessive and OTT to me.

If it gets denied, I would not be surprised TBF.

ETA2 In para 2 you mention "another pro bono team (Weineke etc)" in your post. Who is the other pro bono team on the case?
It is always the same old repetitive stuff. Why are some not talking of the motion to bring in the psych confessions? Bias entirely.

Put him in Cass or 'Canoe. Same old again. DO THEIR JOB and get on what they have NOT done. SAme old.

As far as discovery, well there is a real issue as to what they were provided and can't find themselves and request for the third time as they lost it or MW took it who knows with this bunch... As to what is exculpoatry is a debate in and of itself so that's a separate thing. And anything new in the investigation of course would not have been there back when.

I don't know how anyone can't see this. Great points by the way.

Compare it to Daybell. PRIOR is doing his job and always has. I am not on defendant's side but he DOES his job and IS prepared and KNOWS the evidence. And always HAS. He also griped about things back when not provided and then when he got them never tested them anyhow. Typical defense. But understandable. He also has complained about how many the State have helping and it's just him and he is not death qualified and asked for funds or help. Yet here he is ONE GUY handling a far bigger case than Delphi as it is THREE murders and a DP case.

I don't compliment defense attorneys representing guilty clients lightly but when one compares him to B & R, it is night and day. TWO of them are never up on their sh*t and never have been. Prior ALWAYS has been and did similar and went on about the mass of discovery also, etc. A LOT of similarities but big differences. He wasn't filing such motions and NOT doing his WORK on reading it all in he meantime, etc.
 
Weineke only does appellate work - a specialist. She has 2 more appellate attys in her firm that worked RA's Supreme Court matters last round. Don't remember name off top of my head, sorry. Ausbrook has shown up for the Contempt hearing for the Defense lawyers themselves (and not RA) pro-bono. But he's probono and he has indicated he's ready to take the case to the 2nd department at the right time (pro-bono). Weineke tweets and is not subject to Gull's gag order. Ausbrook same.

But yes, with Auger there are three RA lawyers on this case for trial. Yes, Auger is an FBI (and tech) specialist.
Wait. Baldwin and Rozzi are incompetent sloppy and negligent - so they certainly can't be considered top rated - right?

Somehow I've missed the medical documentation that RA is suicidal and needs 24/7 mental health staff... we're a year beyond his acting out.

I agree that Gull will deny all the D's motions ... limine, evidentiary, suppression, franks, recusal ... every single one of them.

Thus ... a likely sidetrip to the SC.
Re Daybell; take a step back; compare the dynamics. Daybell discovery/investigation is remotely comparable to RA.
Daybell's wife was already found guilty of the same murders they were both accused of with the bodies found on their property. Also , Daybell case didn't involve 150+ professional investigation/forensics team, nor 5 years of investigation discovery and a hundred other potential suspects.
(Are folks wondering why Daybell hasn't pled?) In RA's case nobody was buried on his land and his attorneys all think he could very well be innocent; in spite of the confessions.

JMHO
Weineke may be appellate only but gave an opiinion on website about about P reading ex parte filings. Why is it nothing ever came of that and the D never yelled about it.... Their mistake yet again I am guessing? W may want to beware the choice of who to align with.

Believe it or not I will agree to a point on the suicidal and mental health thing. In my opinion all D's' clams of such, they want to use it, then say he isn't, then use it when beneficial and say he isn't when not beneficial is b.s.

Not once was there ever an issue with Gull until she did not decide for the defense and ever since they have trashed her and shown no respect. And they were very LATE to the game. Took their sweet time until probably family having a fit and RA confessing and so on.

Most of the motions deserve to be denied and are without basis. However it is not like she has never sided with them.

I also wont' argue they may try another ISC thing not sure what they think will differ this time though. One thing (not speaking for her) I think Tresir is getting at and I myself think 100 percent is IN BETWEEN waiting for something to save you and a decision you WORK on the CASE and go THROUGH the discovery and DO YOUR JOB. I've never seen a LICK of evidence of that and I think it is getting to where more and more out there see that too. Just in CASE it doesn't go YOUR WAY.

If anything had hints of political affecting justice, this is one.

Daybell you cannot even compare to this. You do so as if it is easier and I would beg to differ. And many an LE agency screwed up. There were different states, this one there is not, other murders or attempts, more than one player, and so much more. And ONE defense attorney is handling it ALL and is on HIS GAME. Believe ME I do not like to stick up for him BUT that's a fact. Here how many can't do it. Imo they have Chad pretty dead to rights but like RA no probably smoking gun like DNA (who knows here yet though what they have in sum). Both involve murdered children and in that one and adult too and more attempted but they are night and dayas to the complexity.

If B & R are experienced professionals, I fail to see any excuse for all that they have not done here and what they have pulled. They should well know how to do their job.

Watching chats during lives or even after is interesting. I saw a ton of people the other night saying RA wants to/wanted to confess but B & R want their attn and fame and to not be known as screw ups (when they did). All jmo. I tend to agree.

I again have said it many a time feel SORRY for him and his family and I NEVER FEEL like that with someone I feel guilty with a family that should see it supporting him.

I also think we have a pretty good clue of what the Daybell kids are going to say on the defense side, for sure ONE, but we have no clue what Cathy Allen said in any interviews...

And I read some the other day but was on break and don't log in or use my phone for that, no time and never got here but I recall in some post , not even sure if this one or another you saying Gull took away the speedy trial. Like HE77 she did. They made their decision and asked for such. They stuck their guy in for even longer, not that he would be acquitted anyhow. IMHO.

All in good debate. I disagree. This case they are going to push too far and I think have gotten there or are approaching that. It matters as much as any but it isn't the only one and it is on stall and getting old as far as they are concerned. Other cases matter. Not sure why anyone would even be set on this one right now since it is on stall. I'm looking at others that are actually in trial until new filings come or the decisions coming on the motions that will be heard when the TRIAL should have been going on.

You don't have time, I don't, etc. but what time does this one need right now lol? Defense should be at home reading all they can and sorting imo. And getting some kind of dam*Ed system in place. Again jmo.
 
(You're right, I'm not following Daybell. Given your comment above, I probably don't understood the point you were making comparing RA's public defense compensation to Daybell's private lawyer. I wasn't focused on compensation arrangements. I'm sure the Daybell is really interesting.)
There are many similarities as far as wanting more help, paid experts, funding and state having more help, etc. And it is a DP case. It did not all fly and he stayed on and is handling it all himself. As opposed to the bozos here.... WITH HELP. ANd a GFM etc.
 
Yes, this one is interesting; the psychologist is a state actor ... and the motion offers legal arguments that the Court must hear/resolve to bypass privacy (HIPPA) issues re: this witness.
A state actor. Lol. HIPPA? If he made material confessions or statement about a homicide uhm...

Kind of like a priest. Never say never. There is occasion...

A state actor. I won't even say what that sounds like. Not only that but the defense constantly tries to open the door to his mental health and tires to use it but then whines about but don't share this or that... And Gull sided with that more times than they deserved. She has helped the bozos out more than once, some out there just don't get it. You can only do so much and rule as you should.

Let's get rid of all, I'm fine with that. And RA will sit another how many years until all get up to speed. I' sure his mom and wife will love that and so will he.

I will take the egg on face if wrong but if you think Gull will be removed only and they will not be if she is, it is a pipe dream. All going, now that's another thing but then the case is delayed forever and he sits.

The only ones who have never been prepared and have wasted their time are the defense imo. And still are not. I almost bet they have FM #50,000 drafted already but have yet to go through all discovery.
 
It's convenient and simple for us to compare because we are following both cases and they involve the horrific murders of two children within the last 5-7 years, plus and the accuseds in both cases have pled not guilty. One lawyer versus 6 for defence is a big difference however one looks at it.

Also a lot of phone and geofence data in both cases to place the accuseds at the scenes.
There is a LOT comparable, I agree. And Prior is doing it all alone. And asked for help, to quit, to be paid, said he was not DP qualified, wasn't fair, etc. I am ot a fan since he represents Chad but he hasn't been at all like these two pieces of _____ and their games. He has delayed, he went on about exclupatory evidnecen until he got it (not a big thing) and then never tested it, etc. Plays those defense games BUT he knows his case and the VOLUMINOUS evidence. Unlike the two here.
 
Definitely not very fun, very gruesome, many graphic warnings, as this one will no doubt be as well. At least we don't have to follow both trials at the same time, which is probably for the best as it would have been too much methinks.

ETA if you do get any time I would recommend it. It must run for another week at least as P hasn't even finished yet.
It is extremely gruesome and hard. As we know. Fun? Well that's an odd word. If I and others I'd say didn't care about justice I'd never want to think about nor know about it.
 
I can’t follow the Daybell case too much. It's too upsetting. I'm waiting for the outcome.
You got that right. However this one is too I suspect but that one a lot of the awful details are known. In this one only the ones the defense has claimed or shared are known. So not as hard that way thus far.
 
Weineke only does appellate work - a specialist. She has 2 more appellate attys in her firm that worked RA's Supreme Court matters last round.

Wait - Weineke plus 2 more pro bono appellate lawyers so now 6 lawyers on RA's case.

Wait. Baldwin and Rozzi are incompetent sloppy and negligent - so they certainly can't be considered top rated - right?

Based on their rate of pay, they are top rated - B, R and A

Somehow I've missed the medical documentation that RA is suicidal and needs 24/7 mental health staff... we're a year beyond his acting out.

It is fact he has been on 24/7 suicide watch and had MH meltdowns and assessments. Don't be disingenuous. If his lawyers think he is not a risk anymore then I am sure they can get a report from Wabash to confirm that turnaround. As well as have the inmate witnesses testify.

Re Daybell; take a step back.......etc

Your facts on Daybell do not appear to be accurate. We are on day 23 and still hearing prosecution experts. No I am not counting them
Got confusing and agreed with the right thing but wrong person I think. Definitely a year out from his acting out. Never bought it to being with (me I mean).

Daybell is the hot one right now. All kids and victims deserve attention. This one is unfortunately on pause and in the same old same old. JJ, Tylee and Tammy have deserved justice for a long damned time. As do Libby and Abby but that case is moving, this one is not. So when little time, it is easy to pick where to put the rare moment of time towards. Read is also in trial but I have trouble picking that one over those of innocent children as to where to spend the not enough minutes I have. Daybell wins out. On that note, QUITE the day today on it.
 
Just reread this and saw the mention of a psychologist report. Very interesting.

Found a link


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case filed a motion to get statements Richard Allen made to a psychologist admitted as evidence in the case.

Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

Normally, anything said to a psychologist is covered under doctor-patient confidentiality and cannot be repeated.

The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

In previous filings, the prosecution has said that Allen has confessed to murdering the teen girls to multiple people over a period of time.

The filing Wednesday appears to be adding another person to that list, this time in the form of a psychologist who has evaluated Allen.

Also Wednesday, Allen’s attorneys filed a motion asking Special Judge Fran Gull to strike comments from the record that she made about them during her ruling finding the attorney’s not in contempt of court.

In that ruling, the judge from Allen County said she found Allen’s attorneys to be sloppy, negligent, and incompetent because of the leak of crime scene photos that came from their office. Those are the statements the defense team now wants taken out of the record in this case. The defense attorneys say the comments are gratuitous and demeaning, and illustrate bias by Gull against them, which they claim is another reason Gull should recuse herself from the case.

On Tuesday, the defense team said they were going to electronically file a 24-page motion asking for Gull to be removed. That would be the second time they’ve filed a motion like that. As of Wednesday night, the defense has not filed that motion.

Also on Tuesday, the judge pushed back the start of the trial at the defense attorney’s request for more time. The trial is now set for Oct. 14 through Nov. 15.
YEP. People who are only defense and look at every filing never mention this prosecution stuff/filings. I have to count on Tom as it does not happen here. Just saying....
 
Just reread this and saw the mention of a psychologist report. Very interesting.

Found a link


INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — The prosecution in the Delphi murders case filed a motion to get statements Richard Allen made to a psychologist admitted as evidence in the case.

Allen, 51, of Delphi, was arrested on Oct. 28, 2022, for the February 2017 murders of 13-year-old Abigail “Abby” Williams and 14-year-old Liberty “Libby” German near the Monon High Bridge in Delphi.

Normally, anything said to a psychologist is covered under doctor-patient confidentiality and cannot be repeated.

The filing cites a law with a specific exception to that rule: “A psychologist licensed under this article may not disclose any information acquired from persons with whom the psychologist has dealt in a professional capacity, except under the following circumstances: Trials for homicide when the disclosure relates directly to the fact or immediate circumstances of said homicide.”

In previous filings, the prosecution has said that Allen has confessed to murdering the teen girls to multiple people over a period of time.

The filing Wednesday appears to be adding another person to that list, this time in the form of a psychologist who has evaluated Allen.

Also Wednesday, Allen’s attorneys filed a motion asking Special Judge Fran Gull to strike comments from the record that she made about them during her ruling finding the attorney’s not in contempt of court.

In that ruling, the judge from Allen County said she found Allen’s attorneys to be sloppy, negligent, and incompetent because of the leak of crime scene photos that came from their office. Those are the statements the defense team now wants taken out of the record in this case. The defense attorneys say the comments are gratuitous and demeaning, and illustrate bias by Gull against them, which they claim is another reason Gull should recuse herself from the case.

On Tuesday, the defense team said they were going to electronically file a 24-page motion asking for Gull to be removed. That would be the second time they’ve filed a motion like that. As of Wednesday night, the defense has not filed that motion.

Also on Tuesday, the judge pushed back the start of the trial at the defense attorney’s request for more time. The trial is now set for Oct. 14 through Nov. 15.
I gather though this is a state "actor". Wow. I need to take a break from some OTT conspiracy theories on occasion. I've seen actors in this case all right albeit "B" rated ones or lower who honestly believe most can't see through such.

Funny how prosecution filings seem to be missed from those that check the court site regularly.

We all have our leanings but that's why I will stick with Tom. He covers all and does not have an agenda.
 

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