LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

I'm glad people in your neck of the woods wear clothes.

Most of the time they do yes. I did see a lady once and my mom did too, she was visiting, that I will save you the details of on what was showing. It wasn't the breasts. And it wasn't her arse. I think that says enough. Everywhere we went we kept running into her in this thrift store... BAD.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I feel bad for Ron Logan. He was absolutely crucified in the court of public opinion.

I honestly do and did too and that's why I say I hate to talk of him in a guilty way if he is innocent but he did kind of put himself there. This was a DOUBLE murder and I'm sure he did not want to do jail time over his other or get in trouble but when weighing the possibilities, I think TELL THE TRUTH and then fight the more minor problem/charge.

I bet if he'd had it to do over he would have. He ended up in trouble anyhow. AND looked like a suspect caught in a lie.

I do debate that in these cases. Talking of who are only possibles but a person can try to do it at least with some respect unlike the ones that go crazy with it and outlandish theories on top of it with no real reason. Freedom of speech is a big valued right in this country but I do think it can go too far but talk of limiting ANY and woe is the person who says that.

And this isn't FB or YT where posts get shared ten kazillion times in minutes.

It's like doxing the judge or the wife and kids too. It isn't necessary but it is legal.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I just realized that maybe the cops talking to the person back when covering for someone were talking of Logan. Was it his cousin or something and they did admit he asked them to lie. Not sure if time frame fits that though...

I thought in hindsight they might have meant RA's wife which would mean that they did suspect him earlier on. But probably not.

 

[RoundPeg]

I honestly do and did too and that's why I say I hate to talk of him in a guilty way if he is innocent but he did kind of put himself there. This was a DOUBLE murder and I'm sure he did not want to do jail time over his other or get in trouble but when weighing the possibilities, I think TELL THE TRUTH and then fight the more minor problem/charge.

I bet if he'd had it to do over he would have. He ended up in trouble anyhow. AND looked like a suspect caught in a lie.

I do debate that in these cases. Talking of who are only possibles but a person can try to do it at least with some respect unlike the ones that go crazy with it and outlandish theories on top of it with no real reason. Freedom of speech is a big valued right in this country but I do think it can go too far but talk of limiting ANY and woe is the person who says that.

And this isn't FB or YT where posts get shared ten kazillion times in minutes.

It's like doxing the judge or the wife and kids too. It isn't necessary but it is legal.

On the doxxing, maybe, maybe not. Cyber stalking and cyber bullying can get one arrested.

 

[RoundPeg]

I still believe he was involved in some way.

Well, the Salem witch trials come to mind here.

 

[GrandmaBear]

This video in my current unusual mood of being irritated easily ticked me off in the beginning as they ran it as new developments and the Ron Logan info is old. However, it then became more interesting. The one investigator and the other guy looked into this case for years and the one wrote a book about it. And their suspect is Logan and it goes into why. It reminds of the reasons which I saw too and debated, we all did. And some other things. He thinks now that RA was the accomplice most likely WITH Ron Logan. Since we have just been talking of Logan, I thought I'd link it.

@Cousin Dupree I think you should watch it, it isn't long and you favor Logan as a perp so you will want to see it I think. I in no way rule Logan out, I think it is a very good possibility but I also think Kline plays in for sure. It would too uncanny if he didn't. But Logan is hard to dismiss too.

One thought I've had is when Logan died which I believe was January of this past year, they found evidence or perhaps someone knew or he did a confession to someone. If he was part of this ring, I am thinking for one his computers, phones, etc. This then led to the Klines or lended to that creep and between it all here they are.

He doesn't think it was a one man thing. And as I said earlier it bothers me that possibly RA would have to know Logan wasn't around OR Logan was involved. And one thing I keep noticing is there are tons of hints that it isn't only RA and that while they say he is charged with their murders, people are charged who were along for the ride of those very things whether he was the main guy, participant or bystander, etc. LE and Carter just don't really come out and say it that he committed the acts, that he was alone, it is just the opposite feeling I get at least.

Now maybe Kline was not involved but was one trying to meet up with the girls and knew of others who know, other pedos, etc. Or he was involved. But I haven't ruled out any of these guys. He doesn't diss LE he gives them credit and thinks they must have done their job to get Allen, a formerly unheard of person in this case.

I mean really why wouldn't Logan have just confessed to driving and drinking... They didn't catch him in the actual act of it, he COULD have fought it if they wanted to be severe AND they may even have shown mercy if he helped by being honest.

He of course couldn't help his property was right there and that could be unfair that it happened there and just happenstance but that's a tough one to swallow too. Someone had time to kill and stage, got out of there and apparently was not worried about doing any of it on Logan's property.

Cops could well know Logan was part of it and how would we know.

Many dismiss him because of his age but I never let that rule him out. They talk of this too. I have a mother that will be 80 and I feel I am older than her in health and more. And she had a year of cancer. And Logan drove, drank, walked up and down hills and lived rurally with chores. My mother does great and one would never know her age for what she can do. She was just talking about needing to do the gym thing again and get back to that. Seriously.

Someone on a mission and with a passion well I think could do more than one thinks.

And many his age can do so without that mission.

Of course dressing like him or trying to would definitely throw the light on someone else but to me that is far fetched AND they took a chance killing on his property? Doesn't really wash for me.

The down side of this is this kind of thing and news will give a defense attorney ammunition to point at someone other than RA. But maybe LE knows and has it all or enough to show it was both.

Anyhow, here it is.

 

[GrandmaBear]

On the doxxing, maybe, maybe not. Cyber stalking and cyber bullying can get one arrested.

I'm saying more so showing names and faces and if they are already public in news articles or on FB etc., then just sharing it if they are adult isn't really illegal, it already could be found in public forums, etc. But yes if they stalked, harraassed, etc. a different story for sure.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well, the Salem witch trials come to mind here.

Yeah I don't disagree. I myself try to walk a line but I will discuss people no doubt. That's obvious. However, I'd never go picket their homes, or trespass, whip people and weirdos into a murderous frenzy at people in the case, etc. or encourage such.

That all comes down to decency and how far will some take it more than any laws. For instance, most news orgs and most SM I have seen blurred the faces of the family of RA. And won't mention addresses, details, etc. But yeah, some do and have.

 

[RoundPeg]

Yeah I don't disagree. I myself try to walk a line but I will discuss people no doubt. That's obvious. However, I'd never go picket their homes, or trespass, whip people and weirdos into a murderous frenzy at people in the case, etc. or encourage such.

That all comes down to decency and how far will some take it more than any laws. For instance, most news orgs and most SM I have seen blurred the faces of the family of RA. And won't mention addresses, details, etc. But yeah, some do and have.

I've discussed him myself. And felt bad afterwards.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I've discussed him myself. And felt bad afterwards.

Yeah I go through that too. I don't feel like that with all like I said and I'm not sure with him why I do but I guess because there really isn't solid proof and cops never arrested him. However, in one of the videos above, even mainstream media has people on who think he is part of it so it sure isn't like we aren't doing as is already done. I can't though say I believe he was necessarily innocent either, I don't know, so that's part of it for me.

I'm sure they probably exist but I wouldn't know where to look but I'd like to see like an aerial photo of his house and the spot the girls were found, the land and how close, the view, etc. I'm sure I probably saw such at some point over all these years and all the info but don't recall it.

 

[Tresir]

Yeah I go through that too. I don't feel like that with all like I said and I'm not sure with him why I do but I guess because there really isn't solid proof and cops never arrested him. However, in one of the videos above, even mainstream media has people on who think he is part of it so it sure isn't like we aren't doing as is already done. I can't though say I believe he was necessarily innocent either, I don't know, so that's part of it for me.

I'm sure they probably exist but I wouldn't know where to look but I'd like to see like an aerial photo of his house and the spot the girls were found, the land and how close, the view, etc. I'm sure I probably saw such at some point over all these years and all the info but don't recall it.

If Logan had anything to do with it, why would he leave them on his own land? It appears that the girls were originally approached at the end of the bridge on the land across the creek from Logan's land and they were likely chased or forced across the creek to the crime scene, which was the extreme edge of Logan's land. One of the girls shoes was actually discovered on the land on the opposite side of the creek to the crime scene.

 

[Tresir]

Imo we have never received a satisfactory answer on that. They did say something about a cross between the two and then something if I recall about one maybe being eyewitness and one being from video or a different witness or some such (won't swear to that one). Like the DNA Carter kind of dances around it and the explanations aren't full ones and just don't really gel. It sure confused things and threw everyone for a loop and it still affects the opinions I think.

I kept thinking once we knew of the Klines of Kline and his father. I guess even now it could be a Kline and the other be RA but Kegan at his weight now is a long ways from that younger sketch. He is younger though...

It really doesn't look like the male model imo but only seen like one photo of him I think. It was out however before Klines etc. came to the notice of the public so maybe they were trying to find the male model to determine if it was his account or he knew of it, all without telling the public but again I don't think it looks like him so doubt that's the case.

Everything they have put out is confusing.

We do know now that RA allegedly went in or was brought in back when and told them he was there and a "witness". I wonder if he didn't say you have the wrong sketch/person and help develop the younger one claiming to have seen him because he knew he resembled the older one or WAS the guy and they believed him. That's one thought I have... Trying to divert the case away from him or any possible suspicions.

Have you got a source for RA being brought in before? When was that?

Regarding RL land here is a screenshot I did of it and marked up. The red is the approx boundary. The yellow is the approx route from the end of the High Bridge across the creek to the approx crime scene marked with a blue X. RLs house is right up in the top right of the land near the 300 road.

 

[GrandmaBear]

If Logan had anything to do with it, why would he leave them on his own land? It appears that the girls were originally approached at the end of the bridge on the land across the creek from Logan's land and they were likely chased or forced across the creek to the crime scene, which was the extreme edge of Logan's land. One of the girls shoes was actually discovered on the land on the opposite side of the creek to the crime scene.

I'm not sure on Logan but I can't exclude him either. Keeping it open.

Yes, that's a good point, why would he leave on his own land? I don't know but maybe the crime did not go as planned and people showed up too quickly. Maybe it was meant to be a kidnapping or he meant to take them out of sight or get them into his house or one of his buildings. Maybe he knew he had an alibi (false one) and figured he would be cleared. Maybe he and another (if this is how it was) reacted on opportunity more so than any long range plan and it was a sudden thing.

And maybe he was waiting closer to his own land and the accomplice was the one on the bridge and no matter who it was, they came in the way they could corner the girls on the bridge.

He set up the alibi before the girls were even found.

Who knows? It isn't like perps never do anything stupid. Maybe he thought no one would ever be looking for these girls that quickly.

Again, I'm not sold on it but not necessarily satisfied he can't be part of it either.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Have you got a source for RA being brought in before? When was that?

Regarding RL land here is a screenshot I did of it and marked up. The red is the approx boundary. The yellow is the approx route from the end of the High Bridge across the creek to the approx crime scene marked with a blue X. RLs house is right up in the top right of the land near the 300 road.

View attachment 18104

Thank you, it looks familiar now. So plenty of trees in between the site and his home. Time of year there would be no leaves though.

Just a side note. I grew up right next to a trail like this. In our case every so far a road would cross the trail. We walked it our entire childhood in both directions. My dad worked at one end of it a few miles down. It was far from unusual that we wouldn't hike it being dropped off at the other end and not from our home. Or we'd take the roads on bike to go to one end and then come home down the trail. We explored it in every direction on and off trail ALL of the time. This is Logan's back yard. He would know the place as intimately as we knew ours. He likely walked, explored, fished, hunted, you name it. He well could have been on his way back having wanted to enjoy a beautiful day like the girls and others were doing. Cabin fever is a real thing and a decent day in the midst of a long winter is hard to resist thinking you should be getting outside and doing something.

This case is haunting for many reasons but for me it has always struck another chord. This could have been I and my sister. It is so similar to where we grew up and we were on our own all of the time at even younger ages on our trail and around it. We did every so often encounter a stranger. We found evidence on occasion of parties and "camp" fires.

I guess I bring to it what I know of growing up in such an area. Every nearby neighbor ALSO knew the trail intimately. Would others come from out of the area and occasionally explore it? Yes but they didn't know it like we did. Ours wasn't well used in my childhood years or known by all but it is very much the opposite now.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Have you got a source for RA being brought in before? When was that?

Regarding RL land here is a screenshot I did of it and marked up. The red is the approx boundary. The yellow is the approx route from the end of the High Bridge across the creek to the approx crime scene marked with a blue X. RLs house is right up in the top right of the land near the 300 road.

View attachment 18104

I didn't share the part about RA being into LE before until I was fairly certain it wasn't just a rumor. If I get a chance I will try to find something it was said in but I heard it in more than one thing or read it and I'm sure one or more were news outlets. It is unclear when he talked with LE the times I have heard it, it is mostly said it was early on and whether that means a month after the murders or a year or two I don't know.

I am not going to be on here much today, a lot of messes to deal with but if I get a chance to look I will link something.

 

[Tresir]

I didn't share the part about RA being into LE before until I was fairly certain it wasn't just a rumor. If I get a chance I will try to find something it was said in but I heard it in more than one thing or read it and I'm sure one or more were news outlets. It is unclear when he talked with LE the times I have heard it, it is mostly said it was early on and whether that means a month after the murders or a year or two I don't know.

I am not going to be on here much today, a lot of messes to deal with but if I get a chance to look I will link something.

No prob. Only if you come across it.

If he was a pharmacist at CVS I just do not understand why he was not recognised by those who saw him that day and gave info for the sketch. Also, why hasn't he been recognised from the sketch by people who know him.

 

[Tresir]

Thank you, it looks familiar now. So plenty of trees in between the site and his home. Time of year there would be no leaves though.

Just a side note. I grew up right next to a trail like this. In our case every so far a road would cross the trail. We walked it our entire childhood in both directions. My dad worked at one end of it a few miles down. It was far from unusual that we wouldn't hike it being dropped off at the other end and not from our home. Or we'd take the roads on bike to go to one end and then come home down the trail. We explored it in every direction on and off trail ALL of the time. This is Logan's back yard. He would know the place as intimately as we knew ours. He likely walked, explored, fished, hunted, you name it. He well could have been on his way back having wanted to enjoy a beautiful day like the girls and others were doing. Cabin fever is a real thing and a decent day in the midst of a long winter is hard to resist thinking you should be getting outside and doing something.

This case is haunting for many reasons but for me it has always struck another chord. This could have been I and my sister. It is so similar to where we grew up and we were on our own all of the time at even younger ages on our trail and around it. We did every so often encounter a stranger. We found evidence on occasion of parties and "camp" fires.

I guess I bring to it what I know of growing up in such an area. Every nearby neighbor ALSO knew the trail intimately. Would others come from out of the area and occasionally explore it? Yes but they didn't know it like we did. Ours wasn't well used in my childhood years or known by all but it is very much the opposite now.

I grew up exactly the same , we walked miles as kids to the next village and wandered all over the countryside. With RL, I seem to remember he went to the dump on the day around lunchtime ( he was on the cctv) and then he went into Lafayette. I think he had alibis but it was 5 years ago when I followed this at the time it happened.

 

[GrandmaBear]

No prob. Only if you come across it.

If he was a pharmacist at CVS I just do not understand why he was not recognised by those who saw him that day and gave info for the sketch. Also, why hasn't he been recognised from the sketch by people who know him.

Maybe people did. He likely admitted being there as he was worried someone knew him or that he left evidence of being there, etc. I will say though that right now I can think of stores I use most and can't bring to mind any clerk in them clearly. MAYBE if you went enough and chit chatted with them etc. you would but I'm not good that way.

And have you ever seen someone out of context and not been able to place where you recognize them from? Years ago we ran into a female I knew by sight for sure and she knew me by name and I had to ask my husband after we walked away who it was and he couldn't believe I didn't know. It was someone we were on a league with but she was shopping and I did not see her at our league night. Dressed differently and in a different setting.

But yeah, no one knew him from the sketch or so it seems and no one now even seems to be having some "aha" moment after now knowing he was the perp or one of the perps...

 

[RoundPeg]

I'm not sure on Logan but I can't exclude him either. Keeping it open.

Yes, that's a good point, why would he leave on his own land? I don't know but maybe the crime did not go as planned and people showed up too quickly. Maybe it was meant to be a kidnapping or he meant to take them out of sight or get them into his house or one of his buildings. Maybe he knew he had an alibi (false one) and figured he would be cleared. Maybe he and another (if this is how it was) reacted on opportunity more so than any long range plan and it was a sudden thing.

And maybe he was waiting closer to his own land and the accomplice was the one on the bridge and no matter who it was, they came in the way they could corner the girls on the bridge.

He set up the alibi before the girls were even found.

Who knows? It isn't like perps never do anything stupid. Maybe he thought no one would ever be looking for these girls that quickly.

Again, I'm not sold on it but not necessarily satisfied he can't be part of it either.

Are you thinking that Allen was charged in error then?

 

[GrandmaBear]

I grew up exactly the same , we walked miles as kids to the next village and wandered all over the countryside. With RL, I seem to remember he went to the dump on the day around lunchtime ( he was on the cctv) and then he went into Lafayette. I think he had alibis but it was 5 years ago when I followed this at the time it happened.

Yep that was my childhood too. We could roam where we liked pretty much. Put on yes a lot of miles as children both on our feet and on bike.

It seems to me I remember back when talk of there actually was no proof RL was in Lafayette. I seem to recall someone even saying a receipt of his or something or his being in a store was the wrong day to match his alibi. I won't swear to that but remember hearing something like that.

Again I'm not sold on him necessarily, just think there is also plenty to question and keep in mind.

It just also feels like RA is just one. Cops don't say that but the fact they won't say there aren't others and the way they've answered some questions leave me feeling that. I hope they don't know he was a solo wolf and are just letting us think otherwise.