LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I found this video from last night that confirms also that RA mentioned things in the confessions that only the murderer would know. That is the sort of thing that the jury would need to hear.

He also wanted the MH officer to listen to his confession to his wife and then after the call he said to the officer, "She didn't believe me"

Supposedly he started reading the bible and then confessing. Clearly has a guilty conscience over it now. Funny it never bothered him when he was free and able to drink and play pool for over 5 years.


Okay confessions started in April 2023 after reading the Bible. Most came around that time and continued until July then tapering off. Around that time that doctor said his mental health started deteriorating and he had mental issues brought on by confinement, etc. It is UNCLEAR if they mean in July or through that period. I stopped it again so maybe that gets explained but I doubt it.

You know, many prisoners are in solitary and many have stress as to confinement and serious charges and even if so, that alone is no basis for suppressing confessions that know things only a killer would know and being given voluntarily to their own family, etc. IS IT? I don't know but don't think so. There's a lot of semantics here, mental issues for instance is not the same as a psychotic break or deteriorating mental health.

What I'm also saying is you don't just for instance all of a sudden develop schizophrenia because you are confined and depressed and your mental health is deteriorating. You don't all of a sudden develop multiple personality disorder or any other of many such things. Well some have tried it in a faking way, but I mean these conditions, just giving examples don't all of a sudden result. Can mental health deteriorate extremely? Yes I'm sure. That's a whole lot different than psychosis or a break. It's different than insanity, etc. And so a lot of semantics and not all phrases mean what the D would want them to mean or try to make them mean.

Timing here will be a big thing and it will be in court too and that is whether the confessions come in or not. It will be as to his mental health and trying to even use that as not an effort to suppress but to argue the confessions and to argue his mental health in general and even what it was at the time of the murders. I mean it isn't going to probably preclude the defense OR the prosecution from such in both directions and again the timing matters.

I believe any false confessions like shooting them came AFTER his attorneys realized he had been confessing (too late) and convinced him they could save him and they all needed to make them go away, dilute them and so here came ones with false facts. That is where timing matters as well, big time.

Sounding to me like the early ones had facts only the murderer would know...
 
We don't know that was factual though. It appears it wasn't according to testimony yesterday. Have you got the original detail of who reported that comment? You will need to research that yourself.

RL's phone would ping near the bodies. He lived only yards away from there as it was his property. RL has been cleared and is dead. You need to forget him.

I'm still looking for the cell phone ping evidence. This article talks about all the reasons Logan was a suspect.

 
I found this video from last night that confirms also that RA mentioned things in the confessions that only the murderer would know. That is the sort of thing that the jury would need to hear.

He also wanted the MH officer to listen to his confession to his wife and then after the call he said to the officer, "She didn't believe me"

Supposedly he started reading the bible and then confessing. Clearly has a guilty conscience over it now. Funny it never bothered him when he was free and able to drink and play pool for over 5 years.


Well that's the most meat I've seen yet. Quite a bit packed into three minutes. No way it covered all of course BUT probably most important was put in. Not bad.

You know today they said is about P's motion to keep the O thing out and such and I agree with that as I think it's beyond outlandish and the F's memos are and such. This is the last day isn't it? What happens with the motion to suppress all gotten from the searches and the warrant and his one interview as well by the D? Have they just went longer and so another day will need to be scheduled for those motions? I do recall some of these others. Oh and the BG recording suppressed too. Lots more that has NOT been covered nor mentioned to be on today's list either...

Back to the O thing, I was thinking about this, and I now entertain what about letting them have their defense but keeping it to law in the courtroom and not letting the attorneys "testify" or go wild with it unstructured, meaning they have to follow trial rules and can't just write several "memos" wandering anywhere they like claiming all to be fact and making it into a nonsensical blizzard. The P would actually get to go at the theory.

Personally I think it should be kept out and not any fanciful defense story accusing others with no basis should be let in and it is so ridiculous but just thinking about if it was let in...

Of course it would make it more burdensome for the P too but they are prepared I believe, and they'd maybe have to add to the list to prove alibi and such but I'm thinking how it would go IF such happened...

Holes would be poked easily. A jury would see this crazy speculation of a story and by some dumb cops was the best the D could come up with for a defense??? It would be trial and B & R and helper couldn't just talk and talk and talk and talk and make things up as what ifs in the Frank's memo. I don't think they'd do very well honestly... I think a jury would see through it if the P is on the ball and gave it back good.

I don't want it in but things these days are getting a bit ridiculous in that oh the defendant was not allowed a defense of some ridiculous loony theory who outright accursed others that make no sense they were there. At all... And so I'm thinking about the actual win it might be (maybe?) to give them this... I think it would show for what it is quite quickly...

I'm against tit but just looking at it from the other direction if she gave them their SODDIT (plural)...
 


...According to Fox59, the warrant indicated data from Logan’s cell phone showed it was in Delphi near the murder scene that afternoon and was likely outside and “in the proximity” of the scene...

Logan's property was huge. So a ping near the bodies doesn't include his house.
 
This is why I believe someone else was involved. The bodies were moved and staged.

 
One of the prisoners said that he told him that he shot them. Which is an obvious lie. That's why I want to know what was said.

RLs phone pinged near where the bodies were found the night before they were found. He asked his cousin to lie for him too. Something he'd never done before. He also lied about the time-line he told them.
I do it too but not sure to the extent you can get. Your blinders are blinding you to what we are learning. You are looking for things to only fit your belief and mold and they just aren't there. I mean go ahead but try to also look at them as IF your theory is not correct. I know it's hard. When I get a very strong opinion too, it is hard to do that but evaluate each thing independent of that as much as you can.

Imo any sane defense lawyers would have used a sane defense as it was RL that did it but they didn't. I suspect it is because something cleared him very well. They would know that and we wouldn't.

Not a bit of this is almost anyone thinks relates to RL but you are trying to fit a round peg into a square hole or vice versa and make anything that comes out make your theory correct. And I'm not even sure what your theory is. You kind of alternate on RL, RL with others, RL with RA, etc. but RL HAS to be in it. Surely you recognize that?

@RoundPeg that remark was nothing to do with you about round pegs and square holes etc. LOL. I trust you know that. Or hope. It was just the comment that fit best what emu keeps trying to do.

I'd add to you Big Bird that I think your theory is dead in the water and neither side is going to be trying RL or even bringing him up much in this trial imo. I mean the defense may flounder and try to show all other possibilities or something, and he may come up just as to where this happened, etc., but he is not going to be a focus by either side. And as these other things come out, it is clear there's no RL in this that either side thinks.

There's also not a single hint that RA's confessions involved a single other person and he even gave the wife a motive of HIS I would think. None.

You can keep trying to hang onto it, no one can make you stop but it just isn't there nor can you fit things into it and you want to make them fit. Again you do see that don't you?

This is what they get after LE for or claim sometimes, that they get one target or theory in sight and they can't see all else that comes because they have blinders on and want to fit their theory. THAT is what YOU are doing. We all do it to an extent, don't want to give up if we have a strong feeling or instinct or whatever, but when it is about in one's face that they were wrong, well, give it up.

You don't have to of course but to me it's pretty clear there is no RL in this. I've entertained it too back when and others and I still wonder about the KK thing but not in a way I think he was there... But adjust as we get more... And again even the D is not centered on RL. At ALL. And both sides have all the info we do not.

Use a meter, draw one if you have to or create one on the internet. I would not know how but I am sure it can be done, what can't these days? And with each piece of info take your theory up and down. I'm 90 percent sure but now this new info SEEMS if I am honest to indicate RL would not fit in very well then drop the percentage in your head of whether your theory is right or wrong. if all of a sudden something indicates something that would point to him, then "up" it.

You are stuck on things from back when that fit for you like the pings and I suspect some of it is Barb MacDonald and there is nothing else that supports it and never has been since.

Again, do what you want, you have every right, I'm just saying you are not open to evaluating anything as we learn more other than to fit your mold. And I can even say I believe RA guilty and I probably want evidence to prove that so of course I have my theory, etc. BUT I am still open to others but not thinking it likely,. AND HE is the ONE charged and so that's different and I await the evidence they have that we don't know about and it of course fits that mold better but that's different than trying to make something fit like the defense is with the O theory or you are with the RL theory. And we now know a lot of that sh*t was being put out there intentionally and spread too. I have referred many a time in here as to creating a blizzard, smoke and mirrors.

Is there REAL reason to have looked at RL in the public's eyes? Of course. I think though they knew pretty quickly he did not do it. BUT of course had to look at him. And there is clearly interagency stuff here.

Whatever. I'm just saying there is nothing in any of these hearings or confessions to even hint at another person and certainly not RL. However, you wait to squash it into the wrong shaped hole LOL.

I think you know I at least, I won't speak for others, am not going to go down the same path with the same old old things you cling to and discuss RL. Not one bit of new info can you provide, it's just the same repeat.

No offense intended. And you have every right to your theory.

I sense you are awaiting the confessions thinking RL will implicate others or some such so it will fit.

Open up just a little bit. Go to 75 percent on your theory and entertain others. You don't have to but just a suggestion. Like that RA really did do this himself. All alone. Have you ever entertained that?
 
The only evidence of the 10pm ping I could find was a Reddit post that mentioned it. They didn't have a link, so I don't think that proves anything. I'm sure I heard that from a reliable source. It may be in one of the videos I posted.
 
It seems to me that they should be admissible, too. They're either going to show he was perfectly sane or extremely disturbed.
I think it needs to be heard at trial and objected to and basis given with each thing and handled that way. And I'd add there's a middle ground of not perfectly sane or extremely disturbed and I don't have the words for it, but these are just "words". Sane. Disturbed. It isn't like some are even clinical. And even if he was whatever, it still does not automatically make them inadmissible.

I am agreeing actually but just adding and thinking also this needs to be dealt with in trial. Maybe it will come to even each one rather than blanketing them and of course will make it more cumbersome but the jury should get the weight of them, the timeline, his claimed health status, whether the ones with false facts changed only when he wanted the real ones to go away, etc. That's my opinion of what probably happened but I may or may not be wrong. Timeline of each one will show that more. And I'll try to adjust my opinion accordingly although the ones with real facts only the murderer would know I think by the statutes we've seen would carry the greater weight when like it comes even to the info from the mental health doc/s.

The D just has not as far as I've seen given enough basis to keep out 61 confessions.

Some issues just need to be tried. There will be I'm sue sidebars as such goes on and objections but that's what needs to be done imo.

Unless the D can come right out with solid proof of their claims and we know they have not. So I predict they will be allowed in and I feel rightfully so. That isn't from taking a side, it is from I don't think they've given enough to keep them out, and all of them out, they certainly have not.

But then we aren't hearing all of the day's arguments by a long shot by news.

And just my very uneducated opinion lol.
 


...According to Fox59, the warrant indicated data from Logan’s cell phone showed it was in Delphi near the murder scene that afternoon and was likely outside and “in the proximity” of the scene...

Logan's property was huge. So a ping near the bodies doesn't include his house.
Same stuff. Passing.
 
I'm still looking for the cell phone ping evidence. This article talks about all the reasons Logan was a suspect.

The word being "was". Passing but will add that both sides will get to bring up all the cell ping evidence and have experts. So I guess you can wait for that. Neither seems to be centered on RL.
 
This is why I believe someone else was involved. The bodies were moved and staged.

More at trial. Will defense argue such and include RL? Passing.

I really don't want to do this but feel the urge to be nice. :hugs:

I get you are stuck on it but I am done with it. Hugs.
 
Hmm. I don't know about this psychologist and some of us have questioned it before. A long 8.5 hour day of testimony they say, much of which was her.
 
Per the usual, just under two minutes.

Closing arguments on the motions tomorrow. A LOT to take in today. She will be reporting on all but I'd say uh, no they really don't, but giving some highlights I guess. A few anyhow.

Sounds like they detailed many of the confessions but she shared NONE.
 
I'd like to know what those comments were. Allen may have been involved, but I'd be willing to bet he wasn't the only one.
There doesn't seem to be any evidence for any accomplices though. Him on the video and witnesses described him plus voice analysis and his bullet from his gun that he never lent out. There is now the box cutter knife that he said in one of his confessions that he disposed of in a CVS dumpster. Seems to be a ton of evidence IMO but it doesn't implicate anyone else.
 
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It seems to me that they should be admissible, too. They're either going to show he was perfectly sane or extremely disturbed.
He got religious and accepted Jesus, started reading the bible according to the article I posted upthread. It sounds like he wanted to get it off his conscience, unburden himself. Apparently the warden was outside his cell when he heard one of his confessions. I am wondering if a priest was present. Is he catholic do we know?
 
There doesn't seem to be any evidence for any accomplices though. Him on the video and witnesses described him plus voice analysis and his bullet from his gun that he never lent out. There is now the box cutter knife that he said in one of his confessions that he disposed of in a CVS dumpster. Seems to be a ton of evidence IMO but it doesn't implicate anyone else.
Huh? Where is the box cutter thing coming from? Never heard that one and think I've read all recently or watched the videos.
 
I need to watch it yet but just commenting quickly first. I'd heard about the Bible in some post above. And it makes perfect sense too. By the way, MOST turn into Jesus lovers and Bible thumpers once in prison and they use it in court as well for obvious reasons. As you said it didn't bother him until caught now did it in all these years...

So he mentioned things only the murderer would know.

And you see this is what I keep saying. These reporters are hearing things all day in court that we did not know before and they aren't reporting on them all. I wish one of them would do an hour long show or get their station or whatever to let them and have jotted every important new fact or fact claimed by the P and tell us all of them. And they CAN do that. Heck you'd think one of the outlets at least would be running to do so or all would with ratings on actual news lower than ever.

Gull is not going to suppress these and she certainly isn't going to suppress all 61 in blanket style. The D has given no solid reason imo for her to do so. And they are legitimate actual confessions and they belong in the trial imo. And the D has not even backed up what they claim caused RA to confess. There's just no cause to suppress them, they tried I guess (the D) but they just don't have any evidence or cause to get them suppressed. No expert, just the way I see it.

One last thing, man RA's wife needs some serious help. Talk about denial and not even LISTENING to her husband when he tries to tell her something, or believing it. Is she like this just with this or with all things where is concerned?

I don't know HOW she convinces herself of what she likely does. How does she explain his bullet and gun to herself? His voice and believe me she KNOWS it. His gait and posture and believe me again, the wife knows this. And I am convinced if she didn't know that she looked back and knows that day that something was off and there are things she noticed. And yes, she would recall because just then two girls from their small town went missing and you'd recall what you were doing at the time and so on right at that time. You'd wonder where your neighbors were, if a stranger did it, if the local SO did...

So we said there'd finally be new things to discuss when pretrial hearings, even filings, and trial occurred and we finally have a few. Not a lot, but a few, and not exactly all new, but new details, a few. WHY they are NOT reporting in the way Nate would about what happened that day in court I don't know. News stations really need to get with it. They are at least using YT now but just for two minute blips. I suspect they still want the viewership on their TV channel or on their newsprint, who knows. But it is just the way of news as well. Just that short time slot and onto the next thing.

I'm a bit aggravated by it. If I lived there, did not work and could attend, I would and I'd jot down every single thing I could as fast as I could and then i'd give it all to Tom or someone each day, as I'm not going on YT lol or anywhere else for that matter. I wonder can they bring an old style cassette recorder? That's not really an electronic device, I mean I suspect they mean today's tech that can internet connect and send things out...
That's exactly what I was wondering about a cassette recorder LOL. Maybe they aren't allowed any devices at all. Need to take it down in old fashioned shorthand I guess.

I bet the court are recording it all. Could hearing transcripts be available from the court?
 
He got religious and accepted Jesus, started reading the bible according to the article I posted upthread. It sounds like he wanted to get it off his conscience, unburden himself. Apparently the warden was outside his cell when he heard one of his confessions. I am wondering if a priest was present. Is he catholic do we know?
We can't know as it wasn't clear imo but it sounds like his "insanity" came on after realizing what he'd done... Probably once his attorneys finally talked to him. Like I said, dates are going to mean a LOT in this trial in my opinion and what was going on at each time... Jmo.
 

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