LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

Here is another article about the hearing.

https://cbs4indy.com/indiana-news/judge-approves-transfer-of-richard-allen-to-county-jail-new-details-about-delphi-murders-released/

DELPHI, Ind. — For a year and nine months, accused Delphi double killer Richard Allen has languished inside two state prisons, locked in solitary confinement, officials said, for his own safety, while awaiting trial for the killings of Abby Williams and Libby German near the Monon High Bridge in Carroll County in 2017.

At the end of three days of marathon pretrial hearings in a Delphi courtroom, Judge Fran Gull ruled affirmatively on the first motion to be heard this week. Allen’s defense team asked that he be moved from the custody of the Indiana Department of Correction back to the responsibility of Carroll County Sheriff Tony Liggett.

Liggett led the five-and-a-half year investigation to put the suspected killer behind bars; Allen’s attorneys wanted him housed closer to home in anticipation of his trial this fall. Gull ultimately approved the transfer.

Safekeeping order at center of hearings​

Earlier this week Allen’s attorneys argued that their client’s “safekeeping” 200 miles away at the IDOC’s Wabash Valley Correctional Facility south of Terre Haute was hardship as his team tried to build his defense and a possible violation of the defendant’s constitutional rights.

On the witness stand Tuesday, when asked about remanding Allen back to his custody, Sheriff Liggett said, “I don’t care where he’s at. He can’t be with mine,” citing the potential danger the accused killer would experience from other inmates in the tiny Carroll County Jail.

This week, during his hearings, Allen has been housed at and transported from the Cass County Jail in Logansport, hometown of his lead defense attorney Bradley Rozzi.

The court learned the Cass County Jail would be able to accommodate Allen for the rest of his pretrial incarceration.

It was Allen’s pretrial detention that was subject of intense testimony during hearings in Carroll Circuit Court this week.

While an Indiana State Police investigator said he listened to more than 60 phone calls of Allen confessing to his alleged role in the killings of the two girls Feb. 13, 2017, outside of Delphi, an IDOC contracted psychologist testified that the accused man was suffering from a mental illness breakdown at the time of those confessions in the spring of last year due to his incarceration conditions.

Defense touts Odinism theory​

The attorneys spent two days presenting evidence to Judge Gull in an attempt to allow them to tell jurors about a potential third-party defense that would pin the murders on a group of men who practice Odinism, a pagan Nordic religion, in Carroll County.

One of those men is the father of Abby’s older boyfriend at the time of her death.

The man’s ex-wife testified that the father told her Abby was targeted by the group because one of her relatives was suspected of dating a person of color.

Dr. Dawn Perlmutter, a recognized subject matter expert in the field of ritualistic crime investigations, testified that some offshoots of Odinism are racist in nature and engage in “magical thinking” contrary to typical linear western thought, that imbues objects like sticks and locations such as wooded areas and bodies of water with supernatural powers to control human life events.

A noted author who literally wrote the book on ritualistic crime, Perlmutter said, “This crime scene is a textbook for ritualistic murder.”


She was followed to the witness stand by two retired police officers who were part of the task force assembled by Indiana State Police to investigate the Delphi killings and who testified that they were convinced a group of Vinlanders, practitioners of Odinism, from Delphi and Rushville, carried out the killings as part of a ceremony.

The prosecution countered with its own evidence that there was no evidence linking the group to the murders and that runes and blood markings on trees were simply evidence of the struggle during the killings or an attempt by the murderer to cover his tracks.

The defense team is seeking Judge Gull’s approval to bring the Odinism theory before jurors in an attempt to sow the seeds of reasonable doubt once the trial begins.

New details about murders​

Without spelling out exactly what Allen may have said in his purported confessions, Prosecutor Nicholas McLeland asked Perlmutter what her response would be if she learned that the defendant “said that the intent was a sexual assault,” and “said that the branches were there to cover the girls’ bodies,” not an example of symbolic runes as the defense argues.

As a blood spatter expert revealed details of the crime scene and the conditions of the girls’ bodies upon discovery the day after they disappeared, some persons in the courtroom, including the victims’ families, choked back tears.

Details included cutting wounds on the throats of the victims and Abby’s body found wearing Libby’s clothes.

One retired detective grew emotional on the stand as he viewed a photograph of the crime scene and said, “There’s sticks on Abby,” and, “It sucks.”

A state police detective confirmed an unspent .40 caliber handgun round was found on the ground beneath the bodies of one of the victims.

Prosecutors are expected to present expert testimony linking that round to a gun discovered in Allen’s house.

While investigators believe Abby and Libby were abducted at 2:14 p.m. on that Monday and dead within 18 minutes, the defense claims Libby’s cell phone was quiet for more than 12 hours before suddenly turning on again and receiving text messages at 4:30 the next morning, some seven hours before the bodies were discovered in a wooded area along Deer Creek.

The defense has sought to pin the blame for the killings on the father of Abby’s boyfriend, arguing the man claimed he was working out at a fitness center in Logansport at 2 a.m., twelve hours after the girls vanished, but was in reality attending to the moving of the bodies in Carroll County.

While the defense and the prosecutor trotted out bits and pieces of evidence that expected to be raised at trial in October, Judge Gull took several motions under advisement.

He "languished" in two state prisons. Would they just STOP it. What do inmates do anywhere, get motivated and go to work and not languish? Can't help it. That word in this article right off the bat was like oh come on already.

So the P NM said to the defense author and 'expert" what if you were told the intent was a sexual assault and the branches were there to cover the girls' bodies... This seems to indicate it was something said in a confession... HMM. I have always figured it was sexual but it does not mean it went as planned either. Or it did but is a different type of such than some.

So they talk of him being at a fitness center but that he wasn't really there and was moving the bodies? The bf's father I mean. Well maybe it was RA back moving the bodies or that jogged the phone back into life IF that is even the way the phone data will be interpreted. They CANNOT place him or them there in ANY WAY. What, by HEARSAY? From an ex?

And WHAT about WHEN the girls were killed?

I have really changed my tune in this last day or two and now I am almost FULLY there the more and more I think on it. let the bumbling idiots have their defense. Seriously. They can't say they weren't allowed one and I think it is going to cause them more damage than help them. And I hope their arses are used to no end afterwards.

ETA: Fixed a couple of typos. Worst one was that I hoped their arses were used rather than sued lol. Dumb machine.

 

[Tresir]

He "languished" in two state prisons. Would they just STOP it. What do inmates do anywhere, get motivated and go to work and not languish? Can't help it. That word in this article right off the bat was like oh come on already.

So the P NM said to the defense author and 'expert" what if you were told the intent was a sexual assault and the branches were there to cover the girls' bodies... This seems to indicate it was something said in a confession... HMM. I have always figured it was sexual but it does not mean it went as planned either. Or it did but is a different type of such than some.

So they talk of him being at a fitness center but that he wasn't really there and was moving the bodies? The bf's father I mean. Well maybe it was RA back moving the bodies or that jogged the phone back into life IF that is even the way the phone data will be interpreted. They CANNOT place him or them there in ANY WAY. What, by HEARSAY? From an ex?

And WHAT about WHEN the girls were killed?

I have really changed my tune in this last day or two and now I am almost FULLY there the more and more I think on it. let the bumbling idiots have their defense. Seriously. They can't say they weren't allowed one and I think it is going to cause them more damage than help them. And I hope their arses are used to no end afterwards.

ETA: Fixed a couple of typos. Worst one was that I hoped their arses were used rather than sued lol. Dumb machine.

How about used and sued LMAO.

Yes let them have a hearing on it and let all the Vinlanders give evidence and tell the court why it is a load of . So that the time is not wasted on it at the main trial. Then let the V's sue the off them.

 

[Tresir]

If you get a chance, watch the Nancy Grace one I just put up. I am still watching it. You will find it worth it imo. Nice to hear who RA really is imo. And calling things like they are. And they think, she and a few, that the P should LET the defense have the O thing. I was starting to think the same...

Libby's phone is touched on and more where I've heard little about that in these days of hearings from news.

I know RL did not do this and I believe they confirmed he is not a suspect. Lol emu should read that, not me.

Yeah either news which I've not been ALL that impressed with has not shared whether the other motions were heard OR if they will be scheduled for another time.

Read the few comments under Nancy's (it is pretty recent) and the one about cameras and Gull is a good one worth reading. A few idiots in there though, defense trolls imo or people that fall hook, line and sinker.

I hadn't finished it LOL. Give me a minute. I have copied pasta and tagged Emu now.

 

[Tresir]

There have been a few nothing has been said about addressing. The warrant. Frank's memos. The Holeman interview or discussions or whatever one wants to call it. Either they have been dropped, or will be rescheduled or reporters attending don't know and have not reported about them planned to be taken up.

Yes, I am keeping well in mind you are six hours ahead. So it is after 1 for you. I was up like an idiot til 5 a.m. this morning. I knew today was a day off but never even glanced at the time and when I saw it, it was like oh sh*t, I am going to sleep in or want to or was going to but my day will be shot if I do. I swear it takes me one full day for two just to down time it some and get over the work week.

I woke up naturally at least believe it or not and worried it would be afternoon but was only ten. I'd prefer more sleep but nothing woke me up and so it was a natural wake up. Even when I I do go to bed intending to get more, I can't seem to go beyond five hours, maybe six rarely. So there's that. If I went to bed at 10, I'd be up at 3 a.m. Just how it goes.

Anyhow, finally some new in this. And at last so far it seems to be serious court hearings, haven't at least heard of any ding dong or new other ridiculous things or off on a tangent or something in court. IF it would be reported on if there was. Hard to say with the minimum of coverage. Getting a LITTLE more news, but still nothing like someone like Nate or Tom would give if there. Imo of course.

Where is Tom? Why isn't he there?

 

[Tresir]

Boy, this is pretty good actually.

Nancy is saying how his attorneys have not schooled Allen on how to behave. Well no surprise there is it?

Glaring at Libby's grandma! More.

What an asshat. Does he think that will help his case? The 1000 yard stare at women ? Does he have a grudge against her or something.

The D haven't schooled their client on anything at all because they are useless.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

There doesn't seem to be any evidence for any accomplices though. Him on the video and witnesses described him plus voice analysis and his bullet from his gun that he never lent out. There is now the box cutter knife that he said in one of his confessions that he disposed of in a CVS dumpster. Seems to be a ton of evidence IMO but it doesn't implicate anyone else.

If you had been paying attention to what the Sheriff said from the very beginning, you'd have heard him say that he believed more than one person was involved. You shouldn't make statements until you have all the facts.

After arresting RA, they changed it to one person.

They were wrong. He was in Lafayette illegally driving his truck until around 6pm when he got home. That's probably when his phone pinged near the scene as he drove back. LE will have all his movements. Why the heck are you still talking about RL?

His going to the dump is irrelevant. His cousin drove him to the fish store. The receipt is from the fish store. The receipt proved he was lying. RL asked his cousin to lie about the time they went. So he wasn't driving by the scene. If they even went by the scene, which I've never heard before, his cousin was driving and lied about the timing. The next day, he told the cops that he had lied because RL had asked him to. RL had never asked him to lie for him before. This lie made it impossible for him to be at the site of the murder. The truth made it possible for him to be there.

His voice was ruled, not inconsistent with the voice on the tape. While being interviewed by a reporter, he was asked to repeat: "Down the hill." When he said it, he raised the pitch of his voice on the word "Hill".

Where did you hear they were driving by the scene?

If he left his house in his car and passed by the cemetery it would be near the crime scene. It means absolutely nothing without context and times. Plus he was never charged.

If? You don't know, and I've never heard that before.

When still married, ex told her he knew who killed the girls, 2018 I believe she was told that. Uh huh. And that she needed to keep her mouth shut or she'd be killed. Okayyyy. This sounds really ridiculous to me, I'm sorry. Now they start on P argument that NONE of them can be tied to Delphi, OR the crime scene on the day of the murders.

@Cousin Dupree Sorry but they talk alternate suspects but not a single mention of RL.

You "believe" she was told that. You don't know, but are making an assumption based on it.

If you looked at what I posted about why RL was considered a suspect, it wouldn't matter what list he's on now. He died, and so less attention is being put on him.

There are many cases that have been solved after the person responsible had died.

Last night on "Closing Arguments" there was an expert who pointed out that his confessions came while he wasn't being given his meds. He was eating his own at this time too. Once they put him back on his meds, he went back to saying he was innocent. How much that actually matters, I'm not sure, but the expert makes me think it might be true.

One, so called, confession had him shooting the victims. We know that's not true. I think more than one was made up. Sixty? That's a high number. If the expert is right, it doesn't matter.

I suggest you both go back and look at the facts of the case before you make any assumptions. You can start at the beginning in order to know everything that's happened. Read and watch everything. Stop asking me to prove stuff when it's all in the thread already. You could get all the answers by reviewing the thread.

 

[GrandmaBear]

How about used and sued LMAO.

Yes let them have a hearing on it and let all the Vinlanders give evidence and tell the court why it is a load of . So that the time is not wasted on it at the main trial. Then let the V's sue the off them.

Lol. Maybe the word changer on this machine knew better than I did putting down "used" lol.

I agree, it does need to be fully heard and decided whether at a hearing first or at trial, the hearing yes may be the better move. They have NOTHING imo and certainly not enough to claim such or use it for a defense but God forbid if it was not heard, decided and then some would believe the poor defense was not allowed a defense and anything overturned. I honestly do not see the reason to do so, it is so laughable, but I guess such should be done.

There is not ONE snippet of actual evidence of Os doing this. Not ONE. This should not even be allowed to go on imo and I think that's the position we've seen perhaps.

Seriously what is there? Hearsay by an ex and even if he said such, he could be just talking big or trying to scare her quite easily AND some post that may well IF even related have come from the same scuttlebutt we were hearing from the beginning as to how they were found, with probably even more sources in the local area of such talk. And that is ALL. Neither thing is anything even resembling evidence.

And some Hocus pocus expert sh*t that talks about magical things and near water. Okayyyy.....

I almost have to laugh.

I actually have not finished Nancy's show yet as my day went haywire re this apt complex. And still is. I have a load of sopping wet clothes because the washers are not draining or something. I took them out and was going to put them in the other washer only to realize that one had standing water in it. Grrrrrrr.. I had also just been down to the office and FINALLY connected after two days of trying with the manager re the lease, went to dry clothes, realized and went back to tell her and of course the office was locked and closed.

I went to the OTHER laundry room and can only HOPE rewashing them (at more expense will get two soakings spun out). You can't set a commercial washer just to the "spin" cycle.

I did have a good heart to heart with the manager who I have always liked, she is the saving grace around here and that was worthwhile. But lost me a part of the day and now this.

I need to talk to my realtor and some other things but am about ready to call the day off a loss pretty soon here. Usually on Saturdays I work at like noon or 1 but tomorrow it is 7:30 and as it is I hang dry several items.

I tell ya, this world... I won't even get started about like 100 page lease. I had HOPED to be out of here with my home sold before I had to re-sign. I also didn't get a lot of time but looked into a few other places and was really entertaining such but would need to probably pay double rent for a few months, etc., etc., etc.

SOOOOO, Allen should appreciate his free accommodations. I know, poor taste, and not a nice joke. I wouldn't wish such on anyone which is why DO NOT do such things. I'm just more a bit aggravated right now.

Laundry should be about done and I don't even know if I am going to be able to get it done how long later now.

On the bright side, I was told a few things that made me happy in the discussion with the manager. But then I left and ran into the laundry situation.

Okay, stopped and went down to the washer finished and was happy to find them well spun out, I had put it on light load which was the only thing I could do to try to make sure.

But then I go to use the dryer and the app hung and would not process. Groan. This is no "quarter" laundry, etc., it is all done through the app of the company who puts it in here and all has to be done by phone.

They are not connected to the ownership, however, interestingly, the app for paying rent though the ownership company was down yesterday and when I went in, I had to go back later because she was helping people who were having trouble with that app. I did as well yesterday and again today when I tried to pay but finally managed to get a code sent and get it to work to pay rent. Like I said arggggh,

SInce the two aren't supposedly connected in any way, could this all still be due to that internet thing that thing that happened a week or two ago? I don't think we got told the total truth about that.

I FINALLY got the dryer to go but hope they don't process five payments or attempts to do so. This is the kind of crap that happens with days off and even worse when not a day off. Today is turning into a total loss almost. Bites.

Anyhow, off track other than I was saying I have not finished Nancy's show yet on this and I am finding it refreshing. People are not talking about this case where it wAS all over like nuts and when it was last, it was all poor RA and such and D running the things going on. I am going to finish watching it IF I can count on laundry not blinking out for a minute or two because it is refreshing to see the other side of things for ONCE, it has been awhile.

I mean these POOR families with all of this b.s. that has went on. I'm done with the poor RA thing. Other than I still pity him for the attorneys and their helping attorneys he has. But that's it.

So I sidetracked a bit but that was my polnt is I haven't finished what I feel was already a pretty darned good show.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Refreshing too to hear her say the ballistics evidence is SOOOO damning/powerful. All know I am not always a fan of Nancy but man lately she's been having some pretty good shows. it's still a bit TV like but a nice balance imo.

 

[Tresir]

If you had been paying attention to what the Sheriff said from the very beginning, you'd have heard him say that he believed more than one person was involved. You shouldn't make statements until you have all the facts.

After arresting RA, they changed it to one person.



His going to the dump is irrelevant. His cousin drove him to the fish store. The receipt is from the fish store. The receipt proved he was lying. RL asked his cousin to lie about the time they went. So he wasn't driving by the scene. If they even went by the scene, which I've never heard before, his cousin was driving and lied about the timing. The next day, he told the cops that he had lied because RL had asked him to. RL had never asked him to lie for him before. This lie made it impossible for him to be at the site of the murder. The truth made it possible for him to be there.

His voice was ruled, not inconsistent with the voice on the tape. While being interviewed by a reporter, he was asked to repeat: "Guys, down the hill." When he said it, he raised the pitch of his voice on the word "Hill".

Where did you hear they were driving by the scene?



If? You don't know, and I've never heard that before.



You "believe" she was told that. You don't know, but are making an assumption based on it.

If you looked at what I posted about why RL was considered a suspect, it wouldn't matter what list he's on now. He died, and so less attention is being put on him.

There are many cases that have been solved after the person responsible had died.

Last night on "Closing Arguments" there was an expert who pointed out that his confessions came while he wasn't being given his meds. He was eating his own at this time too. Once they put him back on his meds, he went back to saying he was innocent. How much that actually matters, I'm not sure, but the expert makes me think it might be true.

One, so called, confession had him shooting the victims. We know that's not true. I think more than one was made up. Sixty? That's a high number. If the expert is right, it doesn't matter.

I suggest you both go back and look at the facts of the case before you make any assumptions. You can start at the beginning in order to know everything that's happened. Read and watch everything. Stop asking me to prove stuff when it's all in the thread already. You could get all the answers by reviewing the thread.

They had no clue at the beginning but that article I posted clearly states he wasn't a suspect in the murders and gives the reasons.

Do not accuse me of making assumptions, especially when I provide a link actually stating he was not a suspect.

I already knew all that about him driving to the dump then going to Lafayette for pizza and the fish store because I followed it closely at the time. Did you? If it was him who committed the murders, they would have charged him while he was in jail for the drink and driving conviction. They didnt because it wasnt him on the trails that day it was RA who admitted it. He was the only adult male on the trails and the bridge at the time and he even admits he was there to DD.

These are no assumptions. RA has been charged. RL was not. End of.

While RA was still out and free with his alcohol and pool he was unconcerned. We know he already had a MH issue before he was arrested so his confessions make sense because he no longer has the alcohol crutch and family.

I don't know what you mean "where did I hear he was driving by the scene"? That's what his prison conviction was for, driving to Lafayette (road goes past the cemetery) for lunch at the pizza place then a trip to the fish store before driving himself home, again past the cemetery.

I haven't finished yet. You have got some cheek telling us to go back and check stuff. You are the one getting things wrong here trying to blame a dead man who was never a suspect in the first place due to his age and height and his alibi of drinking and driving.

You have no proof it was RL. It wasn't any of his guns or knives. The bullet and gun is RA's and RA is busting a gut continuing to confess even in Wabash.

Oh yeah, and the confession he made saying he shot them was debunked, so you need to go back and check the facts before you accuse or tell me to do so.

 

[GrandmaBear]

And heck she cracked me up a few times (still watching or back to watching) and that's appreciated and much needed

 

[Tresir]

And heck she cracked me up a few times (still watching or back to watching) and that's appreciated and much needed

I won't have time to watch it but appreciate your comments on it, so thanks for that. I want to check the Olympics. I watched the lightweight women's double sculls while visiting hubby this a.m. and the GB girls led all the way getting gold. I want to see if we got anything else today. Our 4 day heatwave finished. It's peeing down now and a lot cooler.

 

[GrandmaBear]

They had no clue at the beginning but that article I posted clearly states he wasn't a suspect in the murders and gives the reasons. I already knew all that about him driving to the dump then going to Lafayette for pizza and the fish store because I followed it closely at the time. If it was him they would have charged him while he was in jail for the drink and driving conviction. They didnt because it wasnt him on the trails that day it was RA who admitted it. The only adult male on the trails and the bridge at the time and he even admits he was there to DD.

These are no assumptions. RA has been charged. RL has was not.

While RA was still out and free with his alcohol and pool he was unconcerned. We know he already had a MH issue before he was arrested so his confessions make sense because he no longer has the alcohol crutch and family.
I don't know what you mean "where did I hear he was driving by the scene"? That's what his prison conviction was for.

No one other than a few that are stuck on it are even thinking of RL any longer.

Or those out there trying to help RA but I think just those that got their pet theory and cannot let go of it.

I am not directing this at emu either.

We have all entertained many, from Ron Logan to KK and there is reason we did. There was never anything about RL that really fit other than he unfortunately has a home right there AND he lied. The lie was a BIG mistake, I will agree to that. But out of the two of those for instance (and MANY have been looked at t by all of us through the years, even long before I was at this site and by LE too I am sure but they know more). There was far more reason and still is to wonder about some connection to KK because he actually planned or tried to with Libby a meeting at the very place these girls ended up dead.

I have entirely dismissed RL. I never go 100 percent but 99.999999.

RL was just being the typical on conditions, not to be driving, DUI kind of person when he knew he was driving and was caught up in this. Imo. It is like a SO (who I have little understanding for ever being released but that's another subject)) being looked at if a kid goes missing with even a mile or five within them... It is NOT these same but it kind of is, they are going to be looked at no doubt and with RL he lived there but had NOT been following his rules. In NO WAY am I comparing an evil SO to RL but I am saying RL only ended up in this due to those facts imo. And I as much as any through the years and more and almost all did, entertained him as a suspect. HE77 though we entertained MANY. I was on the thread at JT and my God how many were entertained over the years. Actually it is good in a way in his case he WAS going against his rules because had he been home and present, wow what people would do to him then...

I don't agree with his lying and going against his conditions but truly think that's all it was. Both with him and the O guy, we have exes CONVINCED it was their ex. I bet there is a ton of that in many cases.

I don't know if I've ever said this but has always been in my mind. BG has things that have made me think of my ex through the years who traveled for work. Not every single day but he did. Still does. The walk, the hands in pockets, etc. Some of that is just an area thing.

I am going to make a prediction here. The voice is not only a maybe, it is SPOT ON. I heard it where others I've said I think it is or could be, not RA. SPOT ON. And the voice is going to play into this trial imo as well as other things we don't even know yet.

We are now getting just a few more details on confessions and such but some think all we've seen is all there is and that's not the case in this one imo. Both RA and "his" attorneys are worried to death as to what they have and they know more than we know what the P has. Even though they claim not to be able to find, navigate or whatever with it. I've never seen any organization of their own, they have blooper after blooper.

Anyhow, I don't need to go down that road.

It isn't evidence but I will never forget the video or pic was it of his wife coming up to the car was it in the mall parking lot...

Instinct isn't evidence but it sure plays in for me as I am not a juror.

This man has been turned into a sad sack but he is a conniving evil person. Imo. I have been back and forth on the Lyric and Elizabeth thing as to whether the same person may have done both but I see good reason to do so and people have.

Two girls in both cases, not one victim. Two out for a bike ride, the others for a walk on trails. Neighboring states. Little evidence found as to DNA, etc. at least from what we understand although not all is shared by smart departments.

I don't know if he was responsible for that one but what I do know or at least believe is he has not been some angel his whole life. He perhaps has never been caught. And lived some facade as many or most do...

I don't know but almost from the start, and we were unaware of him, I see him as soul-less. I see anything he does as an act. I just do. Just instinct. And I instead of 100 percent will say I definitely could be wrong.

I stupidly go against my own inner voice sometimes in my own life but it is pretty clear generally as to anything but my own. He is SK material imo if this did not even already make him one, it just isn't known, he was not caught.

He is a head game player, a faker.

To do a bit of a 190 they said on Nancy, I need to go back to that as I still have not finished it again, by the way about the timing he approached Doolin with, and that he approached someone he knew (Doolin). Now I don't know if that is fact, there are talking heads here but I've long suspected that is exactly how it went. Ran into him casually, etc.

I have given up on my day other than what I absolutely have to get done. Never can win. Wait and slog through a long week for time off and then a whole day goes to the dumb apartment complex, or to this or that, etc.

Although it cost me some time, it was nice to sit and just talk with the property manager today. She truly is the saving grace around here.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I won't have time to watch it but appreciate your comments on it, so thanks for that. I want to check the Olympics. I watched the lightweight women's double sculls while visiting hubby this a.m. and the GB girls led all the way getting gold. I want to see if we got anything else today. Our 4 day heatwave finished. It's peeing down now and a lot cooler.

Hey way to go GB!

We too are going to get a bit cooler but have a day, maybe two left. Tomorrow is going to be a heatwave yet at work, I know that much.

It was just a GOOD show not all centered whatsoever on the poor D and poor RA. I did not even realize how much I needed to hear the other side or at least both sides of things with Al that has been going on by the D.

There are VICTIMS here and TWO FAMILIES here who deal with all of this.

I tell ya, it needs to CHANGE. Of course our case was not this one and not the same but the ways are the same--it is almost inhuman to expect victims' families to sit through all this kid of shi*t, wait years for trail stay silent while the other side parades around selling their STORY. Now we have it in internet form intentionally leaked, etc. hoping it will get passed at leastt through the nation if not beyond, poisoning their own pool of the very jurors, and giving publicity, that defense attorneys yell about while they are the ones doing it and the P says silent to protect the investigation.

Seriously.

The times have changed and things need to change along with such.

Can anyone EVEN IMAGINE what these families have been through and now they get to deal with all this total b.s.?

Was it an article you posted today? Crime scene photos and details and tears in court, even one investigator or someone I think, but definitely the family.

People get immune or it is not "theirs" and I too have that happen following so much crime at times. BUT SO MUCH sight has been lost out there over this--RA is NOT THE VICTIM here, the GIRLS are and the D antics and their helpers have so taken away from that for so long.

My clothes are dry but I am a bit aggravated at how the day went and so I am going to add this: It is about dam*Ed time some show said the things said in Nancy's show AND I will also add unless his wife is a nasty person, it is TIME to get a clue.

And no, he's not convicted yet and I realize that.

But there is more coming and we have had some.

I still am not done as I had to get my (thankfully) dry laundry out. The things I hang dry will probably never be dry by tomorrow early a.m. and in the trouble of moving things to another room and figuring out what to do, I dried something too I never have or should have. I HATE this place but do like the manager, wish I could connect there more often. She is an original, not of all the ownership changes.

Anyhow just recommending a watch if you get a chance. It is "NG" style with guests but imo some good Convo when most are not saying a peep these days which I think is VERY telling
as to what was really going on.

I'm not watching the Olympics and not only because I don't have TV and because of that controversial opening, but no time anyhow, but I did read an article he other day on break on my phone about Mary Lou Retton and her opinion of Simone Biles which was beyond complimentary. Very talented, and Mary Lou was too. First female athlete on a Wheaties box if I recall correctly.

She talked about talent in Simone that absolutely cannot be taught.

I am not anti athletes or anything else but all the other BS including cheating and more, I am turned off by.

Keep me informed of how your country and mine are doing if you would. I said I was not going back in the thread and I'm not lol.

And if France survives lol.

Sarcasm. Sorry to all.

We are supposed to be going into the 70s in a day or two. Tomorrow is still supposed to be stifling, can't recall if the next day too or not.

I used to LOVE the heat, I mean you could not get too hot or muggy for me, I basked in it. Seriously. However, age changes that. Big time.

So anyhow because I am seriously off topic.....

There are things in this show that if true, I mean whoa... And matches what I have thought about RA all along... IF true he turned around and glared at grandma, the family and met their eyes doing it. Many TIMES. And THIS is the sense I have always had from him. He is very bad news.

And hearing others that are present and have seen it, was something I think I needed in this case. Sit with a defendant in a small courtroom when you are the one who lost a loved one that they LIKELY killed... OMG don't anyone think it is easy and this is so far beyond with the attention and the antics.

I even have trouble sometimes of whether RA is guilty or not! There are victims here and families who ARE DEFINITELY NOT.

And this b.s. would try the patience of Job.

I would say go Great Britain right now, but if you are competing against us, forget it. Otherwise YES, hooray, hooray

 

[Guess Who]

With all of these supposed confessions that he had made and rambling about how he's been treated in jail, it sure seems like if anybody else was involved with him, he would have spilled the beans on that story by now.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The term menacing was used. And imagine the girls at their age encountering such. This is a show of course but coming from someone in the courtroom sitting with the grandparents.

AND I still have not finished it. But am close. Have to take care of my clothes. What a lost day. Not over yet but early start tomorrow and I've pretty much given up on accomplishing much else other than what is necessary.

This man is a beast imo. He came out of the blue to us but it is what I have seen from almost the start.

And of course I could be wrong, could be right, I am not 100% as no offense to him but some are on RL who almost all have dismissed.

He is "coy" he is intentional, he is a game player and I have said back when more than once on here he is like LISK. Not identical but the same types in some ways. He plays people. And he has a temper. Thinks he is smarter than all.

Do I know? Of course not. But it is a major gut instinct. They HAVE the right guy,

I have always suspected he went up casually to Doolin and knew him or somewhat knew him and that was pretty much said I this show and of the timing of it too...

Not sure they know but it was said and it makes complete sense and I've always thought it.

You know the case is not tried and he is not convicted but this poor RA thing needs to if not go out the window, at least be tempered by the other side of it, but the P in most cases do not disclose facts. The system needs to change because the D EVEN if a gag order leaks, intentionally does things, etc.

Many a person have fallen for the poor RA thing. There is plenty of reason he was where he was and is where he is imo.

And while not proven, I tend to believe the rumors about the daughter and son in law and not being on the same side as ma, pa and GMA, and coming forward or at least telling what they knew, or even suspected and the truth.

Hanging things up. Laundry should have been complete two hours or more ago. Dam*Ed place.

 

[GrandmaBear]

With all of these supposed confessions that he had made and rambling about how he's been treated in jail, it sure seems like if anybody else was involved with him, he would have spilled the beans on that story by now.

I am lost a bit on this. On what story? It sounds like he has. If you mean these murders.

 

[Tresir]

Hey way to go GB!

We too are going to get a bit cooler but have a day, maybe two left. Tomorrow is going to be a heatwave yet at work, I know that much.

It was just a GOOD show not all centered whatsoever on the poor D and poor RA. I did not even realize how much I needed to hear the other side or at least both sides of things with Al that has been going on by the D.

There are VICTIMS here and TWO FAMILIES here who deal with all of this.

I tell ya, it needs to CHANGE. Of course our case was not this one and not the same but the ways are the same--it is almost inhuman to expect victims' families to sit through all this kid of shi*t, wait years for trail stay silent while the other side parades around selling their STORY. Now we have it in internet form intentionally leaked, etc. hoping it will get passed at leastt through the nation if not beyond, poisoning their own pool of the very jurors, and giving publicity, that defense attorneys yell about while they are the ones doing it and the P says silent to protect the investigation.

Seriously.

The times have changed and things need to change along with such.

Can anyone EVEN IMAGINE what these families have been through and now they get to deal with all this total b.s.?

Was it an article you posted today? Crime scene photos and details and tears in court, even one investigator or someone I think, but definitely the family.

People get immune or it is not "theirs" and I too have that happen following so much crime at times. BUT SO MUCH sight has been lost out there over this--RA is NOT THE VICTIM here, the GIRLS are and the D antics and their helpers have so taken away from that for so long.

My clothes are dry but I am a bit aggravated at how the day went and so I am going to add this: It is about dam*Ed time some show said the things said in Nancy's show AND I will also add unless his wife is a nasty person, it is TIME to get a clue.

And no, he's not convicted yet and I realize that.

But there is more coming and we have had some.

I still am not done as I had to get my (thankfully) dry laundry out. The things I hang dry will probably never be dry by tomorrow early a.m. and in the trouble of moving things to another room and figuring out what to do, I dried something too I never have or should have. I HATE this place but do like the manager, wish I could connect there more often. She is an original, not of all the ownership changes.

Anyhow just recommending a watch if you get a chance. It is "NG" style with guests but imo some good Convo when most are not saying a peep these days which I think is VERY telling
as to what was really going on.

I'm not watching the Olympics and not only because I don't have TV and because of that controversial opening, but no time anyhow, but I did read an article he other day on break on my phone about Mary Lou Retton and her opinion of Simone Biles which was beyond complimentary. Very talented, and Mary Lou was too. First female athlete on a Wheaties box if I recall correctly.

She talked about talent in Simone that absolutely cannot be taught.

I am not anti athletes or anything else but all the other BS including cheating and more, I am turned off by.

Keep me informed of how your country and mine are doing if you would. I said I was not going back in the thread and I'm not lol.

And if France survives lol.

Sarcasm. Sorry to all.

We are supposed to be going into the 70s in a day or two. Tomorrow is still supposed to be stifling, can't recall if the next day too or not.

I used to LOVE the heat, I mean you could not get too hot or muggy for me, I basked in it. Seriously. However, age changes that. Big time.

So anyhow because I am seriously off topic.....

There are things in this show that if true, I mean whoa... And matches what I have thought about RA all along... IF true he turned around and glared at grandma, the family and met their eyes doing it. Many TIMES. And THIS is the sense I have always had from him. He is very bad news.

And hearing others that are present and have seen it, was something I think I needed in this case. Sit with a defendant in a small courtroom when you are the one who lost a loved one that they LIKELY killed... OMG don't anyone think it is easy and this is so far beyond with the attention and the antics.

I even have trouble sometimes of whether RA is guilty or not! There are victims here and families who ARE DEFINITELY NOT.

And this b.s. would try the patience of Job.

I would say go Great Britain right now, but if you are competing against us, forget it. Otherwise YES, hooray, hooray

We are up to 4th and 5th places now both with 9 Golds each. You have more silver and bronzes so it puts you 4th. Of course your population is about 5 times ours though.

Just posting this bit again from the earlier testimony, about the confessions, which continued when he got to Wabash, so cannot be blamed on conditions IMO.

Allen’s confession season covered the months of April through July of last year, which coincided with his mental illness crisis which was partially abated by injections of Haldol to curb his depression, anxiety and disorganized thinking.
Allen was later transferred to the Indiana Department of Correction’s Wabash Valley Correctional Facility south of Terre Haute where Harshman said a corrections officer overheard the defendant “apologize for killing Abby,” and that Allen wanted to, “tell the truth and be honest.”
Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family.
On cross-examination by Defense Attorney Bradley Rozzi, Harshman said in all the monitored phone calls, Allen did not ever say he shot or molested the girls and would occasionally pronounce his innocence.
During earlier testimony, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville, said that one day while standing outside of Allen’s cell door he heard the accused man admit to the killings and refer to the victims by name.
Reportedly guards and other inmates have also said they heard Allen confess unprompted.
ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that an inmate claimed Allen admitted he threw away a boxcutter in a dumpster behind the CVS store where he worked in Delphi.
Prosecutors are expected to introduce bullet evidence linking Allen to a gun displayed at the murder scene and that Libby and Abby died of cutting wounds.

 

[Tresir]

With all of these supposed confessions that he had made and rambling about how he's been treated in jail, it sure seems like if anybody else was involved with him, he would have spilled the beans on that story by now.

There is no doubt if he had any accomplices he would have grassed definitely. He is a coward and a bully and is doing what cowards and bullies do when cornered. Cry and rant and tell all. So glad they are getting closer to nailing him. Only two months to go now. He is going to be in Cass County jail from now on so I bet there will be more confessions in the next two months, maybe even in writing. His confinement conditions should ease a little, I would imagine, making it a more sympathetic environment.

With a bit of luck he will take a plea IMO.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Finally getting back to it and trying to stay on it, Susan Hendricks said it "feels" like this trial will go forward in October. I don't think that's a given but at the moment it seems likely. However we are right before election month and I think such plays in but we will see. I also think depending on the decisions it may change.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I still have not finished and am backing it up repeatedly because my day has went haywire and I do that and then get up to get something else done I need done.

BUT I want to get this one-close to verbatim, I think I may have mentioned it about as to sticking to ONE thing and how the defense does not but then go south. So here it is...

"The theory doesn't fly when it comes out of their mouths. First of all is it Odinists or White Nationalists? Is it a ritual or because somebody was dating the wrong person? I mean they've got to pick a theory and stick with it if they are going to go down that road so that's a problem."

Yep quit going all over the place. Pick your thing and STICK to it. Oh man I haven't been so far off base pretty much what I see constantly. And then:

"I haven't seen where they have sufficient evidence to put this forward"

Yeah, NO SH*T right.

But he's not really convinced they will go down this road at trial.

Not sure I agree with that one. What else are they going to do then?

He thinks they are trying to keep all available to them. And if they go down that road at trial (the O thing) he thinks they are making a big mistake.

Anywhooo, day is entirely haywire. Seems to never fail with the best laid plans. And I gave up except for what I can't not do and that seems to be every single week. And none of it of MY ACCORD.

This is Nancy with a bunch of talking heads but still I was fairly impressed. Most are ghostly silent right now, and I have been waiting and hoping for Tom to come on, but this is pretty good. She has called Allen an idiot like three times at least. I know in one respect maybe that's not funny but in the other, as far as his bullet and some other things he did...

I know what my opinion is and yet I try to be fair about it but it is just confirming a lot of my own beliefs for months on end now. Year maybe? I forget.

This has been SO one sided since the defense games out there that were going on that it is REFRESHING.

And SPOT ON most of it imo.

AND I still have not finished. Now I have to rinse the conditioner out of my hair. I am way off schedule and normally work a noon shift on Saturday but not this week, it is 7:30. Not sure I will have enough dry clothing. No sh*t, seriously. It is hot out so I threw a couple of things on the balcony. I have given up other than necessary things. My plan before I ever went down to the office was to vacuum and mop and a few other things. Thank God I did take care of some things yesterday. Never ever is this going to change, it is the way it always is.

If you are younger and don't get that yet, you will. I don't care if you planned and had it made. You can waste an entire day just trying to reach your bank on a bank error, your internet provider, your complex manager, etc. I wish the younger ones knew how such b.s. did not use to be the case.

Anyhow, I am STILL watching and have not finished because the day went sideways and I keep having to get things done in between that I was on track before the b.s. here to get done.

And I am going to say again that this is a pretty darned good watch and I am not or sure haven't always been a NG fan. She's better these days than Vinnie imo. She is finding the balance. HKe still is I think kind of trying to figure it out.

Yep, I have given up on this day and wasted on things I did not cause and so in between doing what I HAVE to handle, I am just going to be on here or YT.

Took care of all the cat's needs is always a big one and thank God I had already done that. Do so daily too but weekly I also do.

And there was one very good moment to today and something was told that was huge, and a major concern.

So even though lost day, there was a moment of a huge thing.

Anyhow I know I am going on but if interested n this case watch NG on this. I mean I am the non production type, talking head type but this was needed in this case imo. Imo there has been a total agenda going on until everyone getting worried after the leak and the channels it was all to run to. You can tell by who has quit talking this case which ones are concerned they may be looked at t as part of it...