LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

They had no clue at the beginning but that article I posted clearly states he wasn't a suspect in the murders and gives the reasons.

Do not accuse me of making assumptions, especially when I provide a link actually stating he was not a suspect.

I already knew all that about him driving to the dump then going to Lafayette for pizza and the fish store because I followed it closely at the time. Did you? If it was him who committed the murders, they would have charged him while he was in jail for the drink and driving conviction. They didnt because it wasnt him on the trails that day it was RA who admitted it. He was the only adult male on the trails and the bridge at the time and he even admits he was there to DD.

These are no assumptions. RA has been charged. RL was not. End of.

While RA was still out and free with his alcohol and pool he was unconcerned. We know he already had a MH issue before he was arrested so his confessions make sense because he no longer has the alcohol crutch and family.

I don't know what you mean "where did I hear he was driving by the scene"? That's what his prison conviction was for, driving to Lafayette (road goes past the cemetery) for lunch at the pizza place then a trip to the fish store before driving himself home, again past the cemetery.

I haven't finished yet. You have got some cheek telling us to go back and check stuff. You are the one getting things wrong here trying to blame a dead man who was never a suspect in the first place due to his age and height and his alibi of drinking and driving.

You have no proof it was RL. It wasn't any of his guns or knives. The bullet and gun is RA's and RA is busting a gut continuing to confess even in Wabash.

Oh yeah, and the confession he made saying he shot them was debunked, so you need to go back and check the facts before you accuse or tell me to do so.

BBM

Your link is wrong. If two people can swear it was RL on the bridge and not anyone else, that's going to catch the PD's attention. They executed two warrants on his property because he wasn't a suspect? The warrants were extremely limited. RL didn't tell them to look anywhere they wanted. They found the fish store receipt during one search. That receipt proved he was lying and that he had time to commit the murders.

Why was it so important to him to make the police believe he couldn't have done it? It was the first time he'd ever asked his cousin to lie for him. If he wasn't officially named a suspect, he was a POI, definitely.

Believe it or not, the police charge the wrong person at times. More than you think.

I just proved the dead man was at the very least a POI.

What does the cemetery have to do with anything? The bodies were found on RL's property near the end of the bridge.

Yes, the confession he "allegedly" made to the other prisoner was debunked as soon as he said it. The girls weren't shot. I'm saying that the other confessions may have problems with them too.

If you had read from the very beginning, you'd know all that. You'd also know he was interviewed by a reporter because he was thought to be the person who did it. The reporter asked him to say "Down the hill." When he said it, he raised the pitch of his voice on the word "hill", why? That interview is back in this thread.

His voice was not inconsistent with the voice on the recording. They stopped looking at him after, he died. A fully thorough investigation wasn't done on him. The police said that the bodies were moved. Where to? When were they brought back? How did RA do that?

A lot of what they believed changed drastically with the arrest of RA. You'd know this if you hadn't ignored the previous facts, that you are completely unaware of.

I'm tired of being mocked for my theories because I know all the facts. I've had a problem with RA's arrest since the beginning. Go back and see what my theories are based on before you mock me.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Also, Keegan Kline admitted to communicating with Libby. I believe there is a lot more to that than we know. Was he sharing information with anyone else?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

With all of these supposed confessions that he had made and rambling about how he's been treated in jail, it sure seems like if anybody else was involved with him, he would have spilled the beans on that story by now.

He may not have been involved at all.

 

[GrandmaBear]

We are up to 4th and 5th places now both with 9 Golds each. You have more silver and bronzes so it puts you 4th. Of course your population is about 5 times ours though.

Just posting this bit again from the earlier testimony, about the confessions, which continued when he got to Wabash, so cannot be blamed on conditions IMO.

Allen’s confession season covered the months of April through July of last year, which coincided with his mental illness crisis which was partially abated by injections of Haldol to curb his depression, anxiety and disorganized thinking.
Allen was later transferred to the Indiana Department of Correction’s Wabash Valley Correctional Facility south of Terre Haute where Harshman said a corrections officer overheard the defendant “apologize for killing Abby,” and that Allen wanted to, “tell the truth and be honest.”
Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family.
On cross-examination by Defense Attorney Bradley Rozzi, Harshman said in all the monitored phone calls, Allen did not ever say he shot or molested the girls and would occasionally pronounce his innocence.
During earlier testimony, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville, said that one day while standing outside of Allen’s cell door he heard the accused man admit to the killings and refer to the victims by name.
Reportedly guards and other inmates have also said they heard Allen confess unprompted.
ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that an inmate claimed Allen admitted he threw away a boxcutter in a dumpster behind the CVS store where he worked in Delphi.
Prosecutors are expected to introduce bullet evidence linking Allen to a gun displayed at the murder scene and that Libby and Abby died of cutting wounds.

I easily could have missed these posts of yours and did, it must happen when simultaneous or some such, I run into that once in awhile. Not sure why I thought look back but I did.

I agree, I saw he confessed when he was in Wabash as well so that takes a lo of their claims away as to it was due to Westville, guard, etc. I do think however that at a certain point he or he D or both may have had him falsely confessing with inaccurate facts trying to dilute the real confessions earlier (like to wife, mom, warden).

This is so messed up. He confessed and never gave false details about he shot or molested the girls but and occasionally proclaimed his innocence but also confessed. This stuff really NEEDS time frames. Seriously.

And this doctor? Hmmm. I have my thoughts there but will wait on them.

I am done with being fair about Allen. Well fair is not the right word. I know what I have always seen any thought but never am going to go 100 percent and TRY to be fair against instincts. I'm still not going to go 100 and say I could not be wrong, basically ever in any case, but in this one, well, I am at a very high percentage and have been almost throughout.

He is a monster and I am not going to pussyfoot around that opinion any longer and it IS an opinion. One follows enough cases, has enough life behind them, and one just knows but it isn't just that it is HIM and that it all fits and his behavior and more.

I am so far behind today and right back to work tomorrow, that all I can do is what I have to and I showered, clothes are marginally taken care of, I will be lucky if I have dry jeans early tomorrow, so have backed up the last part of Nancy's show a thousand times is my point as I could not watch the rest with focus. My God imo this was SOOOO needed after all of the b.s.. I'm not saying git will even be viewed by all, but I needed it even. SEeing things as they are imo.

Scott (Reisch) last night disappointed me a bit but then he is a defense lawyer. And he said he sees this case being overturned on appeal. Because of Gull's dislike for the defense and more on that order... I truly try to look at both sides and it's like do you even know or would you do it Scott that these two bozos never even met with or advised their client as far as we know UNTIL he started confessing?!! Dumped evidence on him never going themselves to talk of it or forewarn?

I know all won't agree but to me this is almost all crystal clear but I have tried to see and be both ways on it.

Nancy's show is a good watch and to this moment I still am not done. I wouldn't push it if it wasn't. And it is not this same old we have had for months of poor RA. Not even CLOSE. It is pretty good for that kind of show.

And I keep trying to finish it but keep getting sidetracked and now my hair is drying and I need to comb it out before totally dry lol.

But you know what, her pictures throughout continue of these girls on the screen and I said that Horus ago but now closer to done with it, the continue to. Tons I at least have never seen.

I'm almost guessing the families who have HAD IT with this all, and did similar recently, but trying to still stifle for years now, as they will be advised by LE to do so . it is almost an impossible task. Anyhow, maybe others have seen all of these, I never have. Throughout almost all of her show are pics of Abby and Libby. Tons I have never seen. I think the family is trying to get tout toehr things without jeopardizing the case. Which is what families are warned of while in the most intense grief of their life, and yet at the same time they can't grieve due to no answers or justice.

I know what I sound like but I now how it was for our family and this has to be magnified because of the public interest, the defense b.s. and Moe.

And I almost suspect they trusted Nancy with some things. May be wrong.

Either way, there are a ton of endearing pics of both girls throughout the show, and the show itself is pretty darned good too.

But I still need to finish it. I am close but again a day gone haywire. Now my hair is about dry and not combed out. Never talked to my realtor, never got his or that done, and another week staring early tomorrow morn.

I would add one thing. I have never pushed Nancy hardly ever but this was a very good show despite the usual format of talking heads and a number of guests..

RA's confessions will be admitted imo OR each one will be taken for its circumstances to go back to the point of this.

I am going to be fair and say that I think there were some mistakes here, let's just go back to Doolin as the MAIN one. I dont' know if they have more info or what from family or something but I have always suspected they knew each other and Allen talked to him "casually". Or maybe not even casually since the tip and info got "misfiled". For years....

And that is pretty much said in Nancy's show... As far as talking casually anyhow and knowing him. Not the rest.

 

[Guess Who]

He may not have been involved at all.

Who? RA??? Not buying that one.

There's faaaaaaaar more saying he is involved than anybody else.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Who? RA??? Not buying that one.

There's faaaaaaaar more saying he is involved than anybody else.

Other than the confessions, what? The confessions have doubts about them, as of right now. He says he was on the bridge at the time? Someone, who is familiar with the area, could have gotten on the bridge elsewhere.

If he killed the kids, why would he admit to being there?

There is no connection between him and Kline, who admitted to having internet conversations with Libby.

I think he could have done it. Unless there is proof that his confessions had details nobody else knew, then I'd say he did it. Still, how did he move the bodies?

 

[GrandmaBear]

If you had been paying attention to what the Sheriff said from the very beginning, you'd have heard him say that he believed more than one person was involved. You shouldn't make statements until you have all the facts.

After arresting RA, they changed it to one person.



His going to the dump is irrelevant. His cousin drove him to the fish store. The receipt is from the fish store. The receipt proved he was lying. RL asked his cousin to lie about the time they went. So he wasn't driving by the scene. If they even went by the scene, which I've never heard before, his cousin was driving and lied about the timing. The next day, he told the cops that he had lied because RL had asked him to. RL had never asked him to lie for him before. This lie made it impossible for him to be at the site of the murder. The truth made it possible for him to be there.

His voice was ruled, not inconsistent with the voice on the tape. While being interviewed by a reporter, he was asked to repeat: "Guys, down the hill." When he said it, he raised the pitch of his voice on the word "Hill".

Where did you hear they were driving by the scene?



If? You don't know, and I've never heard that before.



You "believe" she was told that. You don't know, but are making an assumption based on it.

If you looked at what I posted about why RL was considered a suspect, it wouldn't matter what list he's on now. He died, and so less attention is being put on him.

There are many cases that have been solved after the person responsible had died.

Last night on "Closing Arguments" there was an expert who pointed out that his confessions came while he wasn't being given his meds. He was eating his own at this time too. Once they put him back on his meds, he went back to saying he was innocent. How much that actually matters, I'm not sure, but the expert makes me think it might be true.

One, so called, confession had him shooting the victims. We know that's not true. I think more than one was made up. Sixty? That's a high number. If the expert is right, it doesn't matter.

I suggest you both go back and look at the facts of the case before you make any assumptions. You can start at the beginning in order to know everything that's happened. Read and watch everything. Stop asking me to prove stuff when it's all in the thread already. You could get all the answers by reviewing the thread.

I apparently missed some posts. I went back a page to see the ending post and it came to the top and was scrolling down and saw this. I don't know WHY that happens but it does.

Have you heard the one that I would likely never find again back on here where RA's voice is a DEAD RINGER for it? Not just a possible which you, I and many others have thought through these years but SPOT ON and unmistakable?!

Everything you are saying has been gone through. And even saying more than one person, they are in the flux of it too and investigating at the time still but this is all OLD NEWS. And have you never considered even that more than one person might even mean his wifey covering for him?

OMG my hair is now closed to dry and totally snarled and uncombed. I finally reach a day off and THEN...

NOTHING puts RL there. Nothing puts he Os there. KK is another, he'd be the only one I'd consider there may be some odd circumstance with but not that he was there or helped. I've considered them all and went down that path as you have but then you got stuck. MOST of us have through the years and even this last year or two.

And "they" did not change it to one person, only one ever said that. They are just being cops or prosecution and when finally charging, ensuring they leave possibilities open.

Even if NOT, the others would be he Os no? I mean do you see the defense all over Ron Logan? Seriously. I don't know that I have EVER heard the defense utter his name.

I watch Vinnie and Nancy. You are TV show kind of news. But Vinnie himself as I told you in some other thread I believe it was I saw a personal channel show from who talked about the wrongful conviction sh*t and how rare and how on TV you can twist anything and skew it and people will believe it.... That is YOUR Vinnie and so he is wiser and more cynical maybe than some but he knows this... And he said he could make the same shows and make them seem 100 percent the opposite very easily and that's what they do. I shared that and I know you saw it. I forget in what thread. I am very much paraphrasing but that was the message.

So there is your closing arguments, he does not even agree with you on wrongful ones for the most part.

I have and get opinions on cases but you are like STUCK. And you have not one new thing to add to it from things coming out ever since, you cite the same things over and over.

You know, I am against the flow entirely in Tyler Goodrich. I have a huge feeling and instinct it was the hub. NO ONE else on this site to my knowledge does. BUT I also know I could be wrong. And I try to say so. I also realize I am talking of someone and basically accusing someone that may well be innocent.

You are like you are either at zero or one hundred. I am on my own on that case, at least on here, but you are totally on your own on this one and I see no reason to even maintain your belief but that's up to you.

I stuck with you the longest because I could still entertain RL and KK until a certain point. And Roundpeg was saying let the man rest I peace and I was not convinced yet but I am now and have been for some time.

AGain I will not go 100 percent but I will go high in that RL was not involved. Nor were the big Os.

I have a post earlier on this messed up day about RL, maybe mentioned in more than one actually, been a day, in that he was unfortunate that this happened near his home, had an ex who had bitter grapes (probably deserved), he had been driving when shouldn't have been and this all descended on him. And the ex "may" truly think that is him (and maybe she truly dos did but she has bias, he view is colored or maybe she was just vindictive) and much like the O guy ex.

So emu which ex is telling the truth?

And has RA'\s wife ever told the truth and have we heard that one? NO.

I will stick to my guns when I think differently than someone else but I will also say I could be wrong. And adjust if things show that. You do not and are not doing that. But go ahead.

Everything you say in this like look at that and look at this is old sh*t and has been looked at. Do you follow Barb MacDonald. Have you read all posts? Even WHEN I had not excluded him, RL was an older man and not only that your claim they excluded him only when he died is b.s.

Even now when more is coming out you are stuck. And you have every right to be if you want to be. "Some" connection to KK is far more likely in that he actually tried to arrange a meeting with Libby at the very area the girls died.

Through months and months I told you you cannot take RA away from here, he PLACED HIMSELF THERE and all you could answer or figure was that well he was part of the Os or in it with RL etc.
Who is the conspiracy theorist here?

I'm sorry but you don't adjust your thinking when new info comes even. You are stuck. I am ready to be wrong in a few I think the other way than most. You really IMHO need to take a good look at this again and since you got stuck.

And we have said countless times too only trial is going to tell some things. It may seem minor to most, but one thing I really want to hear is his wife testify. Because I GUARANTEE YOU she is in denial if one can call it that and she will either be caught in lies or have to 'fess up that she maybe covered for him or she told the truth but then tried to pull it back.

And I find the rumors about the daughter and her hub very likely. She moved. She does not attend court. NOTHING could stop me if this was my dad (never would be) and I knew or believed him to be innocent.

The defense and RA himself are very panicked about what the P has. The know, we do not. Said this a thousand times.

I don't think anyone is on your page here but then I get that, I have opinions where no one is on my page but I also am prepared to be wrong and never say 100 percent.

Have you heard one breath about RL in these hearings or reports and do your think it will come out I trial? I mean if they have it all wrong, the defense would be all down on it and after it no?

Roundpeg said back when BOTH you and I were still entertaining it, and I did, until things showed me otherwise, let the man RIP. Well I'm there now and have been for awhile. I needed to see it and get there but I do now, and no one could tell me to and have that work. I don't know what it takes for you.

Yes, I guess there could be some HUGE conspiracy of KK, RL, RA, and Odinists. Maybe all a bunch of pedos, etc. Or the Delphi areas troubled get together souls. I doubt it though.

I'd like to say one more thing, yep, long, but in our case, we had heard from people he had had a girlfriend over.... Not mom of course, who would be my daugter... Initially we had to wait and hear all this stuff, and the routine autopsy was done but the skull fracture thing, I can still hardly talk about this without crying, had to be sent out and we waited FOUR MONTHS. But my point is these things were still being vetted. If the gf was there, if his mom was, that my daughter was not, all of this so that they had a very CLEAR CASE of it could have been NO ONE BUT HIM.

All others totally in the clear, my daughter was very quickly, she was with her dad not with her, and devastated to this day. I have to stop as it still brings it on.

BUT my point is so the sheriff said he thought more than one involved means NADA to me. Nothing. He is covering his bases. And again, it could mean anything too. Remember the PC where it was like someone was covering for the perp, giving him an alibi, etc.? It could mean his WIFE. Or MOM.

Open your vision a bit.

I'm sorry, but you pound this to death and you have not a new thing on it. Just the same old. And I don't even like that I responded to it. Darned birds.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Also, DNA and fingerprints were left at the scene. So far, they haven't confirmed a match. If they had it matched to RA, I think they would have said so by now.

 

[GrandmaBear]

BBM

Your link is wrong. If two people can swear it was RL on the bridge and not anyone else, that's going to catch the PD's attention. They executed two warrants on his property because he wasn't a suspect? The warrants were extremely limited. RL didn't tell them to look anywhere they wanted. They found the fish store receipt during one search. That receipt proved he was lying and that he had time to commit the murders.

Why was it so important to him to make the police believe he couldn't have done it? It was the first time he'd ever asked his cousin to lie for him. If he wasn't officially named a suspect, he was a POI, definitely.

Believe it or not, the police charge the wrong person at times. More than you think.

I just proved the dead man was at the very least a POI.

What does the cemetery have to do with anything? The bodies were found on RL's property near the end of the bridge.

Yes, the confession he "allegedly" made to the other prisoner was debunked as soon as he said it. The girls weren't shot. I'm saying that the other confessions may have problems with them too.

If you had read from the very beginning, you'd know all that. You'd also know he was interviewed by a reporter because he was thought to be the person who did it. The reporter asked him to say "Guy's, down the hill." When he said it, he raised the pitch of his voice on the word "hill", why? That interview is back in this thread.

His voice was not inconsistent with the voice on the recording. They stopped looking at him after, he died. A fully thorough investigation wasn't done on him. The police said that the bodies were moved. Where to? When were they brought back? How did RA do that?

A lot of what they believed changed drastically with the arrest of RA. You'd know this if you hadn't ignored the previous facts, that you are completely unaware of.

I'm tired of being mocked for my theories because I know all the facts. I've had a problem with RA's arrest since the beginning. Go back and see what my theories are based on before you mock me.

Gee, and I get it for having an opinion.

You are missing exactly what you believe in. They did and said what they had to to get the warrant. I don't believe LE ever thought RL was involved but the public did way back how many years ago when all were trying to figure it out. I did. I bet you did. MOST did. He was the neighboring person and all we see from the outside is who we see on the news, etc.

And likewise almost everyone entertained MANY through the years and some types even called LE over it. Any time something happened in IN or a child molestation, a fire, etc. any crime at all where someone was hurt, that person came up in like the JT thread on this as a suspect and got looked at, beaten, examples of voice looked for, etc.

You respectfully are stuck on old sh*t and again they did what they had to do to get the warrant. I am not even sure they felt a need to look at him but the whole internet was clamoring that it was right near his home, etc. And IF they had not ruled him out then today the defense would be yelling, hey exculpatory evidence and the never followed these tips or all us internet "sleuths' considering him, etc.

It's PAST. Hang onto it if you want to. This one is finally proceeding.

They have more than you think. It panicked RA and then when they FINALLY decided to get on the case, it panicked the defense attorneys. When they finally actually looked at anything.

You know you talk of wrongful convictions all of the time and I am in some cases here where I am basically accusing someone who may well be innocent. Mentioned that in a post above. And I feel a bit of guilt when I do that because what if the person IS innocent. But you yell about wrongful convictions and yet you are 100 percent that RL did this or was involved. And there is NO basis for it. My stupid ex would have done the same thing he did, like about the fact he was driving if he was not to be and who would expect some double murder of two children to happen right there?

To each their own, but you have blinders on to the point you cannot even LOOK at anything else.

And you constantly try to turn the thread back to RL when their finally are some new things to talk about and hopefully trial goes off in a couple of months.

Like I've said several times today, do you hear the defense even referring to Logan????

In these hearings???

ANYONE???

But you go ahead. I'm done with it. Not speaking for anyone else, but I think most are.

 

[GrandmaBear]

BBM

Your link is wrong. If two people can swear it was RL on the bridge and not anyone else, that's going to catch the PD's attention. They executed two warrants on his property because he wasn't a suspect? The warrants were extremely limited. RL didn't tell them to look anywhere they wanted. They found the fish store receipt during one search. That receipt proved he was lying and that he had time to commit the murders.

Why was it so important to him to make the police believe he couldn't have done it? It was the first time he'd ever asked his cousin to lie for him. If he wasn't officially named a suspect, he was a POI, definitely.

Believe it or not, the police charge the wrong person at times. More than you think.

I just proved the dead man was at the very least a POI.

What does the cemetery have to do with anything? The bodies were found on RL's property near the end of the bridge.

Yes, the confession he "allegedly" made to the other prisoner was debunked as soon as he said it. The girls weren't shot. I'm saying that the other confessions may have problems with them too.

If you had read from the very beginning, you'd know all that. You'd also know he was interviewed by a reporter because he was thought to be the person who did it. The reporter asked him to say "Guy's, down the hill." When he said it, he raised the pitch of his voice on the word "hill", why? That interview is back in this thread.

His voice was not inconsistent with the voice on the recording. They stopped looking at him after, he died. A fully thorough investigation wasn't done on him. The police said that the bodies were moved. Where to? When were they brought back? How did RA do that?

A lot of what they believed changed drastically with the arrest of RA. You'd know this if you hadn't ignored the previous facts, that you are completely unaware of.

I'm tired of being mocked for my theories because I know all the facts. I've had a problem with RA's arrest since the beginning. Go back and see what my theories are based on before you mock me.

By the way, you are being a bit nasty here.

Some of us would not get away with that. But you are special.

And I have come to the conclusion that you intentionally goad.

Maybe try going back to what I think is a good and lovable bird who does on occasion run amok.

Let's all lighten up. ???

 

[GrandmaBear]

Also, Keegan Kline admitted to communicating with Libby. I believe there is a lot more to that than we know. Was he sharing information with anyone else?

KK I have not dismissed as to having some connection, I don't think he was there or did anything but somehow the info of when the girls were going to the trails or something may have been shared or seen or some such. That is way too coincidental for me.

HOWEVER, that is KK not RL.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Who? RA??? Not buying that one.

There's faaaaaaaar more saying he is involved than anybody else.

Yeah, just saw that and I don't follow that one at all or what is meant. The man PLACED himself there.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Other than the confessions, what? The confessions have doubts about them, as of right now. He says he was on the bridge at the time? Someone, who is familiar with the area, could have gotten on the bridge elsewhere.

If he killed the kids, why would he admit to being there?

There is no connection between him and Kline, who admitted to having internet conversations with Libby.

I think he could have done it. Unless there is proof that his confessions had details nobody else knew, then I'd say he did it. Still, how did he move the bodies?

He placed himself there. He locked himself into time frames. And the parts we don't know like about work schedules, wife or daughter knowing movements, and what he did that day or acted like we have yet to hear BUT now you have forgotten he put himself there?

You have been told a million and one times he admitted to being there. I am to the point where I believe you do this on purpose.

BY THE WAY IF IT WOULD HELP YOU AT ALL, it was said in hearings that his confessions or some had details no one else but the murderer could know. You did see that said here didn't you?

Do not take this wrong but if you are not intentionally being this way then I am worried about you. I MEAN that. You are NOT Bill Murray in Groundhog Day but you maybe want to be. I am trying for a light note there, again do not take it wrong.

You apparently miss things, believe me I do too.

You got stuck though in this one back when and you remain there saying the same things, sharing the same stuff.

And believe me, I CARE. I have a Little Turd you sent who I love and appreciate who you are, so please know that.

Sooooo we can all disagree and I often have an unpopular opinion so I get that, but do you even look at new stuff or the other side or realize you might be wrong?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I apparently missed some posts. I went back a page to see the ending post and it came to the top and was scrolling down and saw this. I don't know WHY that happens but it does.

Have you heard the one that I would likely never find again back on here where RA's voice is a DEAD RINGER for it? Not just a possible which you, I and many others have thought through these years but SPOT ON and unmistakable?!

Everything you are saying has been gone through. And even saying more than one person, they are in the flux of it too and investigating at the time still but this is all OLD NEWS. And have you never considered even that more than one person might even mean his wifey covering for him?

OMG my hair is now closed to dry and totally snarled and uncombed. I finally reach a day off and THEN...

NOTHING puts RL there. Nothing puts he Os there. KK is another, he'd be the only one I'd consider there may be some odd circumstance with but not that he was there or helped. I've considered them all and went down that path as you have but then you got stuck. MOST of us have through the years and even this last year or two.

And "they" did not change it to one person, only one ever said that. They are just being cops or prosecution and when finally charging, ensuring they leave possibilities open.

Even if NOT, the others would be he Os no? I mean do you see the defense all over Ron Logan? Seriously. I don't know that I have EVER heard the defense utter his name.

I watch Vinnie and Nancy. You are TV show kind of news. But Vinnie himself as I told you in some other thread I believe it was I saw a personal channel show from who talked about the wrongful conviction sh*t and how rare and how on TV you can twist anything and skew it and people will believe it.... That is YOUR Vinnie and so he is wiser and more cynical maybe than some but he knows this... And he said he could make the same shows and make them seem 100 percent the opposite very easily and that's what they do. I shared that and I know you saw it. I forget in what thread. I am very much paraphrasing but that was the message.

So there is your closing arguments, he does not even agree with you on wrongful ones for the most part.

I have and get opinions on cases but you are like STUCK. And you have not one new thing to add to it from things coming out ever since, you cite the same things over and over.

You know, I am against the flow entirely in Tyler Goodrich. I have a huge feeling and instinct it was the hub. NO ONE else on this site to my knowledge does. BUT I also know I could be wrong. And I try to say so. I also realize I am talking of someone and basically accusing someone that may well be innocent.

You are like you are either at zero or one hundred. I am on my own on that case, at least on here, but you are totally on your own on this one and I see no reason to even maintain your belief but that's up to you.

I stuck with you the longest because I could still entertain RL and KK until a certain point. And Roundpeg was saying let the man rest I peace and I was not convinced yet but I am now and have been for some time.

AGain I will not go 100 percent but I will go high in that RL was not involved. Nor were the big Os.

I have a post earlier on this messed up day about RL, maybe mentioned in more than one actually, been a day, in that he was unfortunate that this happened near his home, had an ex who had bitter grapes (probably deserved), he had been driving when shouldn't have been and this all descended on him. And the ex "may" truly think that is him (and maybe she truly dos did but she has bias, he view is colored or maybe she was just vindictive) and much like the O guy ex.

So emu which ex is telling the truth?

And has RA'\s wife ever told the truth and have we heard that one? NO.

I will stick to my guns when I think differently than someone else but I will also say I could be wrong. And adjust if things show that. You do not and are not doing that. But go ahead.

Everything you say in this like look at that and look at this is old sh*t and has been looked at. Do you follow Barb MacDonald. Have you read all posts? Even WHEN I had not excluded him, RL was an older man and not only that your claim they excluded him only when he died is b.s.

Even now when more is coming out you are stuck. And you have every right to be if you want to be. "Some" connection to KK is far more likely in that he actually tried to arrange a meeting with Libby at the very area the girls died.

Through months and months I told you you cannot take RA away from here, he PLACED HIMSELF THERE and all you could answer or figure was that well he was part of the Os or in it with RL etc.
Who is the conspiracy theorist here?

I'm sorry but you don't adjust your thinking when new info comes even. You are stuck. I am ready to be wrong in a few I think the other way than most. You really IMHO need to take a good look at this again and since you got stuck.

And we have said countless times too only trial is going to tell some things. It may seem minor to most, but one thing I really want to hear is his wife testify. Because I GUARANTEE YOU she is in denial if one can call it that and she will either be caught in lies or have to 'fess up that she maybe covered for him or she told the truth but then tried to pull it back.

And I find the rumors about the daughter and her hub very likely. She moved. She does not attend court. NOTHING could stop me if this was my dad (never would be) and I knew or believed him to be innocent.

The defense and RA himself are very panicked about what the P has. The know, we do not. Said this a thousand times.

I don't think anyone is on your page here but then I get that, I have opinions where no one is on my page but I also am prepared to be wrong and never say 100 percent.

Have you heard one breath about RL in these hearings or reports and do your think it will come out I trial? I mean if they have it all wrong, the defense would be all down on it and after it no?

Roundpeg said back when BOTH you and I were still entertaining it, and I did, until things showed me otherwise, let the man RIP. Well I'm there now and have been for awhile. I needed to see it and get there but I do now, and no one could tell me to and have that work. I don't know what it takes for you.

Yes, I guess there could be some HUGE conspiracy of KK, RL, RA, and Odinists. Maybe all a bunch of pedos, etc. Or the Delphi areas troubled get together souls. I doubt it though.

I'd like to say one more thing, yep, long, but in our case, we had heard from people he had had a girlfriend over.... Not mom of course, who would be my daugter... Initially we had to wait and hear all this stuff, and the routine autopsy was done but the skull fracture thing, I can still hardly talk about this without crying, had to be sent out and we waited FOUR MONTHS. But my point is these things were still being vetted. If the gf was there, if his mom was, that my daughter was not, all of this so that they had a very CLEAR CASE of it could have been NO ONE BUT HIM.

All others totally in the clear, my daughter was very quickly, she was with her dad not with her, and devastated to this day. I have to stop as it still brings it on.

BUT my point is so the sheriff said he thought more than one involved means NADA to me. Nothing. He is covering his bases. And again, it could mean anything too. Remember the PC where it was like someone was covering for the perp, giving him an alibi, etc.? It could mean his WIFE. Or MOM.

Open your vision a bit.

I'm sorry, but you pound this to death and you have not a new thing on it. Just the same old. And I don't even like that I responded to it. Darned birds.

You obviously have not read all my posts. I've said he could be involved, but I have many questions. So I'm not 100% sure of it. I've said that more than once.

Why don't you care what was said before RA was arrested? That's some pretty interesting stuff that does pertain to this case. Just because I have questions, doesn't mean I don't think he may be involved somehow. The reason I keep bringing it up is because of what people say, when I point things out, is "I don't know." or "It doesn't matter what they said before." It matters to me. Like I said above. Who's DNA and fingerprints were at the crime scene? One person who was allegedly involved, asked his sister, if he spit on one of the bodies could they trace his DNA. He has been ruled out, I'm not sure why.

Where is it said that RA's voice is definitely the same as on the recording?

This link contains RL's saying "Down the hill." The word "Guys" was later added on by the police. It also contains many reasons to suspect RL.

Ronald Logan: Delphi Murders Case Described in Warrant

Ronald Logan is a now deceased farmer who owned the land where two girls were murdered near Delphi, Indiana.

heavy.com

KK conversing with Libby is an awfully strange coincidence. I think there is more to it.

At the very least, the cops investigating this weren't all that bright. They could've traced the Anthony Shots account back to the computer it came from. I've seen that done in cases years before this one.

My questions are valid. If people looked at ALL of the evidence, they might have some of the same questions I have.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Other than the confessions, what? The confessions have doubts about them, as of right now. He says he was on the bridge at the time? Someone, who is familiar with the area, could have gotten on the bridge elsewhere.

If he killed the kids, why would he admit to being there?

There is no connection between him and Kline, who admitted to having internet conversations with Libby.

I think he could have done it. Unless there is proof that his confessions had details nobody else knew, then I'd say he did it. Still, how did he move the bodies?

See, this is what you do. Finally some new info, etc. and right back to the same old.

He placed himself THERE.

The confessions have doubts? All 61?

It has been discussed a million times why he admitted to being there. Watch the Nancy Grace one, that is hit on AGAIN. He KNEW he was seen.

You make no sense. You can give RA who they have real evidence against the thought he is innocent but can convict RL.

You know I am even going to ask Linda what she thinks now because you cite her as a reason back when for thinking this, and most of us entertained it at one point or another. My other suspicion is Barb McDonald added to it.

I entertained RL with you for a long time, I was never sold on it but never excluded it. And I have bailed. I have seen enough that I exclude him and again I never go 100 percent but 99.9 percent.

Again, do you do this intentionally? There was finally discussion about a bit of new info and you bring it right back to the same old thing with your RL thing who has NOTHING at all int his and his name was likely never uttered in court in the last three days.

That's a serious question because I am starting to think you do intentionally do such.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Also, DNA and fingerprints were left at the scene. So far, they haven't confirmed a match. If they had it matched to RA, I think they would have said so by now.

Old news. Like it has not been discussed over and over and you haven't said it before. From the same video that when you linked I thought new and then realized I had sent it before. And before.

As far as we know there is no match to anyone. Show me by the way that they haven't found the girls' DAN on anything of Allens????? Can you?

We are a far cry from having seen it all and I'm done with this.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

By the way, you are being a bit nasty here.

Some of us would not get away with that. But you are special.

And I have come to the conclusion that you intentionally goad.

Maybe try going back to what I think is a good and lovable bird who does on occasion run amok.

Let's all lighten up. ???

I am not goading. I'm sick of people treating my questions as laughable. Just because he was in the same area doesn't mean he was involved. I don't go out much. I sleep a lot, so proving where I was would be difficult. I'd tell them I was home. Placing himself at the scene puzzles me. Why would he admit that if he killed them? He told the police the same thing in 2022 that he did in 2017. He'd probably have a slightly different story, if he did it.

What was said in court about his confessions means little to me. I want to hear exactly what was said, and when they said it happened. There was the guy, who was just trying to get favorable treatment, who said he told him that he shot them.

IIRC, there was a prisoner who said that RA was being abused by the guards. He changed that story, why?

I just want people to understand where I coming from and admit that some of the things I bring up are troubling. Just because they arrested him, doesn't mean he's guilty.

 

[GrandmaBear]

In this messed up day, I've come here. But I have had it and am headed for YT. Haven't been there all day basically. I think I need some Canadian mom cooking or something other than this. And to think I was happy we finally have some progress and new info.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Old news. Like it has not been discussed over and over and you haven't said it before. From the same video that when you linked I thought new and then realized I had sent it before. And before.

As far as we know there is no match to anyone. Show me by the way that they haven't found the girls' DAN on anything of Allens????? Can you?

We are a far cry from having seen it all and I'm done with this.

Yes, I've brought up the fingerprints and DNA multiple times before. It's because it's really important to the case. In all the cases I can recall, where they have DNA evidence. It's one of the first things they'll say in the first press conference. They have not done that here.

It is interesting that the defense has not brought this up yet.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

In this messed up day, I've come here. But I have had it and am headed for YT. Haven't been there all day basically. I think I need some Canadian mom cooking or something other than this. And to think I was happy we finally have some progress and new info.

Enjoy the cooking shows. They just make me upset that I can't do them.