LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[GrandmaBear]

His driving alibi. You are being disingenuous. He drove himself and that's why he was jailed and on house arrest for 2 years.

Yeah I asked him last night if he intentionally does this and goads. He said not. Not sure if I buy that or not.

Boy I am really pushing the limits. Not going to be having any breakfast, jeans are not dry, going to be stuck in heavier denim on the predicted hottest day this last week and there have been many.

I hate these few and mostly rare (seeing a bit more lately) early ones. I don't know why they schedule me that way because MOST WANT those hours. They want to get in early and out early. Guessing people are on vacay or something.

This heat wave is supposed to end in a day or two and I pray they are RIGHT.

Good luck with the RL sh*t. Just go back to the new news. That's old news as has been said to him.

Emu you can think whatever but it is your own theory that no one shares that I am aware of. And I get that but get that on one does. Been there myself. Have a good day, all.

 

[Tresir]

Yeah I asked him last night if he intentionally does this and goads. He said not. Not sure if I buy that or not.

Boy I am really pushing the limits. Not going to be having any breakfast, jeans are not dry, going to be stuck in heavier denim on the predicted hottest day this last week and there have been many.

I hate these few and mostly rare (seeing a bit more lately) early ones. I don't know why they schedule me that way because MOST WANT those hours. They want to get in early and out early. Guessing people are on vacay or something.

This heat wave is supposed to end in a day or two and I pray they are RIGHT.

Good luck with the RL sh*t. Just go back to the new news. That's old news as has been said to him.

Emu you can think whatever but it is your own theory that no one shares that I am aware of. And I get that but get that on one does. Been there myself. Have a good day, all.

Wear the damp jeans. The heat will dry them out by the time you get to work LOL. Or run the iron over them quickly.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Wear the damp jeans. The heat will dry them out by the time you get to work LOL. Or run the iron over them quickly.

Well mad rush but I did it.

LOL I thought of it with the damp jeans, I mean they are "close" but already dressed in the somewhat heavier ones. I am going to regret it as am already roasting here and the air is ON. I'm lucky I am even ready, I was not moving fast. Who knows I may come home quick on lunch break and change and be desperate enough to have to.

I don't have an iron, or a washer here lol.

By tomorrow, all will be dry thank goodness. This place, I tell you, it is ALWAYS something broken or not working in this complex.

On a good and prepared day, I would be leaving by now but I am going to sit for ten minutes, I need it, do not feel like I had enough time and no breakfast either. Also want to get a bit more charge on my phone. I have a car charger but can't charge it up much until lunch break and we use them at work a lot. It has a fair amount of juice but been draining Moe quickly than it used to.

I do read on breaks so if you find anything more on the hearings, etc. or are home today and doing such, I'd like to hear more on them if anything comes out. ONLY if you are doing that anyhow.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

As you know, I've been back and forth on her over the years but she has had some pretty darned good shows lately. Vinnie is the one I can't always do these days. I do them or some but do not always finish and only because both are covering a lot of these current cases at times and if I am into a case, I am going to watch most of what is out on them if I can.

Court TV is so produced, I have gotten used to not watching over produced things so I notice it a lot, and his own YT channel (started not long ago), he can kind of just go on with nothing to say of any meaning for a long time and I get tired of it. He may find his rhythm on his own show at some point, I don't know. Most of them have trouble when they start out. Nancy was that way too imo. They have to kind of lose all that TV thing or some of it to reach a happy medium and what most viewers want. I am sooo used to more discussion type things now and not TV produced stuff too that when I watch something more TV like it just stands out to me.

I am staying away from your RL remark other than to say I have a feeling they were able to confirm he couldn't have done it. As I have now repeated probably a few times, sigh, the defense isn't even using him or talking of him. I think it is because they know he is not a viable SODDIT.

But maybe you will prove us all wrong lol.

I'm not a Vinnie fan, I'm a closing arguments fan. They have good guests that get into the theories of the case. However, I like the videos he does about certain facts on a case.

 

[GrandmaBear]

So apparently the O thing was argued and Amber, the ex wife testified. I watched part of a show today that apparently was about the O thing and the defense claiming the time of the murder is wrong per the P. And about the phone receiving messages, at 4:33 a.m. Libby's phone I mean.

You know, I don't see how AH in court can be anything but hearsay evidence and not allowed. If they call PW or BH, they are going to deny it so what good does that do. The P argued that the "expert" on paganism only saw what the D wanted her to see and not the entire crime scene. P attacked each witness which I would expect them to do.

So they talk of the Os and it is SAID that defense also revisited another former suspect K Kline. Who was NOT mentioned was Ron Logan. There has to be reason for that imo, because there is something rock solid or some such and the D knows it.

The P pointed out that with any of them the could NOT be placed there.

So per the P's expert it is most likely from Libby' bloody hand, the marking on the tree, and that Libby was moving around when injured, standing and sitting. Abby meanwhile was in one spot with blood pooling in her hood. I don't like sharing that but it is in the news video anyhow. I think I said previously I doubt this "author" and "paganism expert" is any detective or crime scene analyst or forensic expert. And of course the D only gave her certain photos, the ones that they felt could be made to match what they wanted. It's what they do. I don't know that but the P claimed so and so I am guessing that came out too.

I'd also point out if it can be determined Libby was moving and both sitting and on her feet, etc., then this crime scene is not as pristine as the D would have had us believe. And if all Abby's blood pooled where she lay.

As far as the phone, imo one of two things. FIRST, the P certainly knew about this as did their expert if such really exists and they know the reason I'd suspect. Second, it could well be RA that went back and most likely if someone did. All he'd have to claim if someone came across him, unlikely at that hour even with if a search was going to go again that morning, it would be dark for quite some time yet and they quit at dark the night before and were not gong to start I am sure until dawn again--but I lost my sentence there, all he'd have to do say he heard about it and thought he'd go out searching but the odds of him being discovered would be slim and even if someone saw a small light or something, he would see them coming with lights too and all he'd have to do would e to go off into the woods, etc. Was he searching for that BULLET? My phone ten times in the last week or two has turned the brightness down, come on on a page I was never on and more, all I can figure is from being jostled. Sometimes it is in my jeans back pocket, sometimes in my work vest pocket. OR he wanted them found so turned it on.

In no way does this 4:33 thing IF EVEN TRUE as they speak it, make it the Os for goodness sakes. NOTHING does.

One last possibility is unlikely but Libby wasn't dead. We know how determined she was and she got the video and if she had a breath in her, that girl would have turned it on or done what she could to her last breath and I hate saying this but maybe he went back at 4:00 or so to be sure the job was finished as he left rushed and didn't get to be sure of that with her. The P expert talks of her sitting, standing, moving and so what tells them that???? Crushed grass, well there wouldn't be grass per se, I guess sn*w and maybe some dead grass...Are some spots from her movements to get her phone and even place it under her or it already was under her. I don't mean she was moving as the expert said when up and alive and maybe fighting only but that perhaps some of the spots are from her trying to get her phone on hours after he left... I don't necessarily think this one likely BUT would they know if her final injury was the day before or at 4 that morning...? He was perhaps close to it and then panicked and left. I mean he dad was looking for them by then...I guess I think of it too as we have heard many a time how spunky and determined she could be and that she would have fought and we know she got the video...

Smoke and mirrors as usual. Unless news hasn't covered anything big, it is all it is. They can't be placed there, it's nothing but hearsay and even the expert is looking at things that are not verifiable anything. Did the drawing or whatever it was go up on FB with a caption or post that said, we did this to the girls and this relates to Abby and Libby? I mean COME ON. If it did indicate it was the way they were found, well plenty knew how they were found in Delphi.

It would have been the whispers EVERYWHERE.

It wasn't only LE out that day it was an entire search team.

Let's just say the phone really was turned on then, what is Allen's alibi? His wife claiming she KNOWS his warm disgusting self in her bed next to her all night, that she got up for a drink of water and he was home. That's not good enough from a spouse who can't face his likely guilt or even entertain it when he tells her he did it. There's nothing here.

Then an ISP investigator said he always thought more than one did it. Okay. I am sure he was called and this was an answer to a question. We'd have more context if this was being covered live.

I had more points but man, what a day, and a hot one in heavy jeans. Ugh. Fairly busy though so although they never go by like days off do, like you blink and they are over it went fairly fast for a nine hour.

Oh and so the weapon was a box cutter. Per some LE, I forget who, on the stand. Well they probably never told him this and that is what he had in one confession, that he threw it in a dumpster. AHA. I mean that is HUGE.

If news doesn't have the context wrong and the LE guy was saying RA said that was the weapon he used., not that that's what they say was the weapon used. Never know with news sometimes.

But IF it is known to be a box cutter, and I sure don't know forensically if one could tell but they are as we all know short bladed most have an angled blade although we sell them and there is a variety. The typical ones would be an angled blade on one side. No problem to conceal either.

Oh I recall some other thoughts. IF a box cutter, that's up close and personal... However, with these new facts it sounds like Libby may have not given in and he may have had a time with her, I do not mean it's possible because maybe they know it's not but maybe he was not as successful there was he wanted to be. But perhaps enough injury she was down and out and did he go back to make sure...? Etc.

It sounds also from this bit that Abby died where she was, Whether forced to by threat, gun or what, or just too scared, hard to say. I am sure Libby, brave as she was in life was scared too. MONSTER.

And these things ALL make a ton of what the D said in their dumb Frank's thing total ******** as to the crime scene. We are finally hearing a bit more from the P who held things close...

It is a news source, but via YT, ABC and it is video not print.

I don't THINK this one has been shared as pretty sure I watched all up to now.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Oh also the hearings yesterday went from 9 a.m. to 8:30 I think it was p.m. Long day.

Gull is going to get it done. Still wondering about the search warrant motion and such.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I do not agree with anything you say and you are completely way out on your theory. Nobody else anywhere is still pushing RL as the murderer. It's a done deal. This trial is going ahead and the process has begun. In another month they will be selecting a jury thank goodness. You can rant at me as much as you want and bold my or your text as much as you want but you are wrong in all your facts. That's ok if you still want to push your theory though but you are not convincing me of anything.

Just because nobody is pushing the RL theory, and you're wrong about that, the internet has others that agree with me. You haven't even payed any attention to the links I've provided, and you haven't been following the case from the very beginning. So just ignore what I'm saying, but it's based on facts you don't know anything about. Laughing at my theories would make more sense if you'd been following the case from the beginning. 15 people said that bridge guy was RL, but that's not significant?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Oh also the hearings yesterday went from 9 a.m. to 8:30 I think it was p.m. Long day.

Gull is going to get it done. Still wondering about the search warrant motion and such.

So apparently the O thing was argued and Amber, the ex wife testified. I watched part of a show today that apparently was about the O thing and the defense claiming the time of the murder is wrong per the P. And about the phone receiving messages, at 4:33 a.m. Libby's phone I mean.

You know, I don't see how AH in court can be anything but hearsay evidence and not allowed. If they call PW or BH, they are going to deny it so what good does that do. The P argued that the "expert" on paganism only saw what the D wanted her to see and not the entire crime scene. P attacked each witness which I would expect them to do.

So they talk of the Os and it is SAID that defense also revisited another former suspect K Kline. Who was NOT mentioned was Ron Logan. There has to be reason for that imo, because there is something rock solid or some such and the D knows it.

The P pointed out that with any of them the could NOT be placed there.

So per the P's expert it is most likely from Libby' bloody hand, the marking on the tree, and that Libby was moving around when injured, standing and sitting. Abby meanwhile was in one spot with blood pooling in her hood. I don't like sharing that but it is in the news video anyhow. I think I said previously I doubt this "author" and "paganism expert" is any detective or crime scene analyst or forensic expert. And of course the D only gave her certain photos, the ones that they felt could be made to match what they wanted. It's what they do. I don't know that but the P claimed so and so I am guessing that came out too.

I'd also point out if it can be determined Libby was moving and both sitting and on her feet, etc., then this crime scene is not as pristine as the D would have had us believe. And if all Abby's blood pooled where she lay.

As far as the phone, imo one of two things. FIRST, the P certainly knew about this as did their expert if such really exists and they know the reason I'd suspect. Second, it could well be RA that went back and most likely if someone did. All he'd have to claim if someone came across him, unlikely at that hour even with if a search was going to go again that morning, it would be dark for quite some time yet and they quit at dark the night before and were not gong to start I am sure until dawn again--but I lost my sentence there, all he'd have to do say he heard about it and thought he'd go out searching but the odds of him being discovered would be slim and even if someone saw a small light or something, he would see them coming with lights too and all he'd have to do would e to go off into the woods, etc. Was he searching for that BULLET? My phone ten times in the last week or two has turned the brightness down, come on on a page I was never on and more, all I can figure is from being jostled. Sometimes it is in my jeans back pocket, sometimes in my work vest pocket. OR he wanted them found so turned it on.

In no way does this 4:33 thing IF EVEN TRUE as they speak it, make it the Os for goodness sakes. NOTHING does.

One last possibility is unlikely but Libby wasn't dead. We know how determined she was and she got the video and if she had a breath in her, that girl would have turned it on or done what she could to her last breath and I hate saying this but maybe he went back at 4:00 or so to be sure the job was finished as he left rushed and didn't get to be sure of that with her. The P expert talks of her sitting, standing, moving and so what tells them that???? Crushed grass, well there wouldn't be grass per se, I guess sn*w and maybe some dead grass...Are some spots from her movements to get her phone and even place it under her or it already was under her. I don't mean she was moving as the expert said when up and alive and maybe fighting only but that perhaps some of the spots are from her trying to get her phone on hours after he left... I don't necessarily think this one likely BUT would they know if her final injury was the day before or at 4 that morning...? He was perhaps close to it and then panicked and left. I mean he dad was looking for them by then...I guess I think of it too as we have heard many a time how spunky and determined she could be and that she would have fought and we know she got the video...

Smoke and mirrors as usual. Unless news hasn't covered anything big, it is all it is. They can't be placed there, it's nothing but hearsay and even the expert is looking at things that are not verifiable anything. Did the drawing or whatever it was go up on FB with a caption or post that said, we did this to the girls and this relates to Abby and Libby? I mean COME ON. If it did indicate it was the way they were found, well plenty knew how they were found in Delphi.

It would have been the whispers EVERYWHERE.

It wasn't only LE out that day it was an entire search team.

Let's just say the phone really was turned on then, what is Allen's alibi? His wife claiming she KNOWS his warm disgusting self in her bed next to her all night, that she got up for a drink of water and he was home. That's not good enough from a spouse who can't face his likely guilt or even entertain it when he tells her he did it. There's nothing here.

Then an ISP investigator said he always thought more than one did it. Okay. I am sure he was called and this was an answer to a question. We'd have more context if this was being covered live.

I had more points but man, what a day, and a hot one in heavy jeans. Ugh. Fairly busy though so although they never go by like days off do, like you blink and they are over it went fairly fast for a nine hour.

Oh and so the weapon was a box cutter. Per some LE, I forget who, on the stand. Well they probably never told him this and that is what he had in one confession, that he threw it in a dumpster. AHA. I mean that is HUGE.

If news doesn't have the context wrong and the LE guy was saying RA said that was the weapon he used., not that that's what they say was the weapon used. Never know with news sometimes.

But IF it is known to be a box cutter, and I sure don't know forensically if one could tell but they are as we all know short bladed most have an angled blade although we sell them and there is a variety. The typical ones would be an angled blade on one side. No problem to conceal either.

Oh I recall some other thoughts. IF a box cutter, that's up close and personal... However, with these new facts it sounds like Libby may have not given in and he may have had a time with her, I do not mean it's possible because maybe they know it's not but maybe he was not as successful there was he wanted to be. But perhaps enough injury she was down and out and did he go back to make sure...? Etc.

It sounds also from this bit that Abby died where she was, Whether forced to by threat, gun or what, or just too scared, hard to say. I am sure Libby, brave as she was in life was scared too. MONSTER.

And these things ALL make a ton of what the D said in their dumb Frank's thing total ******** as to the crime scene. We are finally hearing a bit more from the P who held things close...

It is a news source, but via YT, ABC and it is video not print.

I don't THINK this one has been shared as pretty sure I watched all up to now.

Well thought out theory, except for one thing. The murderer would have been covered in blood. That's according to the police. The guy who reported the "Muddy wet" guy says he never said "Muddy".

 

[Cousin Dupree]

My bad, it's the bloody that was never said: Delphi murders: What the unsealed documents reveal and the questions that remain

Investigators also cite a witness who saw Allen walking with "clothes that were muddy and bloody," according to the probable cause affidavit.

The affidavit also alleges that witnesses saw Allen on the trail, wearing muddy and bloody clothes, and that his car was seen parked at the old Child Protection Services building near the trails.

The memorandum points to the descriptions of the car do not match Allen's Ford Focus, and that the witness who saw a man on the trail reported his clothes appeared muddy, not bloody. That was added by law enforcement, according to the memorandum.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Just because nobody is pushing the RL theory, and you're wrong about that, the internet has others that agree with me. You haven't even payed any attention to the links I've provided, and you haven't been following the case from the very beginning. So just ignore what I'm saying, but it's based on facts you don't know anything about. Laughing at my theories would make more sense if you'd been following the case from the beginning. 15 people said that bridge guy was RL, but that's not significant?

Yeah there are a few out there and Tom refers to them and give all the reasons not...

By the way PW, do I have the initials right is the O who lives? Lived? In Delphi and allegedly had no alibi (got that from a show I got to watch ten minutes of tops at lunch today). He can't be BG either in the defense theory as he is like 6'5 or 6'6.

I mean I guess they can try to wrap all these people together lol. The thing is and even like I've told you for months on end, they cannot remove RA. So no matter what happened, and I still believe it was only RA, but not going 100 on that, never do in anything, the D can't fix it for him with a jury that pays attention. I will go almost 100 on this one to 99.9999999 and I have never (find it because I don't think I have said it), that VOICE is RA's. Never ever ever before, I have thought it "could" be "KK and various others through the years but never even clinched for me. It is a clincher there. And so where from there? How does he defense remove him? Libby was videoing someone saying down the hill after he approached? I don't think so.

My post here is not about RL, it is about the defense in NONE of their stuff, not the Os, not KK (they have never touched on RL to my knowledge) not anything does it remove RA.

That voice is going to be huge. I am making a prediction. I had never heard one until his that NAILED IT. Not just a high percentage, a moment of THAT IS HIM.

No offense but why would Tresir or I or anyone go read or watch these links? You've shared and posted many things a million times on the same. I found myself, trying to do such, back when finding I am watching things I already saw.

You hate defendants being wrongly accused and you name it but there is nothing here and you are doing what you hate.

I thought of something today that I hadn't before to mention about this but drawing a blank right now. It will come to me at some point. Tried to remind myself all day but it was fairly busy. I had an early start, yawned in between all morning, etc.

It was something to do with if RL was involved, and one of your problems is you have him as BG, but it was something about what is known to be true and if he was well then It means this.... Or that. With either something known about the crime or RA or something... Sorry, can't recall but it was a good point. It will come back. Maybe not tonight.

I meant to go to cooking or something as I needed a break from he Doerman hearing. This is just as bad of a case but I think because it is nowhere near as fresh sadly, we get and all do more immune to reacting over the victims, Daybell would be similar, we just etc inundated for so many years with case facts, co conspirators, etc. one has to remind themselves to think of the victims s it all becomes about everything else. Me as well. One gets not immune but I try to remind self and say it on here even take a moment to think about the families and the victims and pause for a moment on the b.s. in the cases. I think I just did in this one or Delphi recently. It never changes for the families.

Anyhow, I cannot recall, did you follow Doermann? I was almost through the whole plea agreement, sentencing, etc. which I think is coming up and probably the VIS the way it sounds but was a load and I left off on the awful details of that day they were sharing and needed to take a break. Not sure if I am making sense but I should have went to Canadian cooking or some such but checks other threads and landed here.

Oh and then had ermgency warnings coming in and storm sirens going off.

You were not answering me but you know I disagree with you as well on RL. And yes you are goading. You are entitled to your theory, I'd never say otherwise. For me I am done with RL but am done with the same old claims and posts and links. I may respond like this but am not going down your same old highway.

That actually almost reminded me of what I thought of today.... I am close...

OH you talk of DNA and fingerprints constantly, by the way did either match RL?????

 

[GrandmaBear]

The defense would be using him if they thought it even far fetched viable. RL I mean. They are except for him. They even brought up KK. Not RL. Not much info was given if KK was just touched on or there was more, not really happy overall with reporters who are THERE and news stations they report for. The are under pressure, maybe get a two minute coverage or time after an almost 12 hour day. I am impressed with any judge by the way for just this, not in general, that goes beyond govt. typical courthouse hours. It is what they all need to do. IMHO.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

The defense would be using him if they thought it even far fetched viable. RL I mean. They are except for him. They even brought up KK. Not RL. Not much info was given if KK was just touched on or there was more, not really happy overall with reporters who are THERE and news stations they report for. The are under pressure, maybe get a two minute coverage or time after an almost 12 hour day. I am impressed with any judge by the way for just this, not in general, that goes beyond govt. typical courthouse hours. It is what they all need to do. IMHO.

That does bother me. It's one thing that's perplexing. If there is a good reason for clearing him, not a theory, I have yet to hear it.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

At the very least, some evidence has been manipulated, and that really bothers me.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well thought out theory, except for one thing. The murderer would have been covered in blood. That's according to the police. The guy who reported the "Muddy wet" guy says he never said "Muddy".

WHO are you talking about? What guy? Do you mean the woman? The argumentsis she never said bloody. Not muddy. But she talked to them more than once AND she said he looked like he'd been in a fight it I recall from her first statement. Do you get muddy in a fight or bloody? Or both. I've seen some many police reports in my life that they don't put in all it is ridiculous. And that's the truth, in a job I had, I saw tons on end.

And how does any of this relate anyhow to RL?????

You are just picking. I've been around awhile. And hard to think otherwise. Bored or something?

 

[GrandmaBear]

My bad, it's the bloody that was never said: Delphi murders: What the unsealed documents reveal and the questions that remain

It was never put down maybe in an initial report. Does not mean she did not say it. Also doesn't mean she didn't say such in later interviews. I recall the remark that he looked like he had been in a fight was here from day one. Well? Do you get muddy or BLOODY in a fight? If you haven't been in the desert but fighting with maybe a battling Libby in WINTER and then were in a creek on the ground would you get muddy? I think yeah possibly but it is the bloody in dispute not by most but by some uhm certain types. She said I am about 100 percent like he'd been in a fight from DAy ONE, I have followed for years.

What would you think like he'd been in a fight would mean? BLOODY. A fight would not mean you assume it because you are wet or muddy. A black eye would. Blood would. Etc.

OMG this one to me is so stupid. NOT meaning you,but the D or anyone doing it and buying into this one. Hey they can call her to testify, either side can. And so?

 

[GrandmaBear]

Well thought out theory, except for one thing. The murderer would have been covered in blood. That's according to the police. The guy who reported the "Muddy wet" guy says he never said "Muddy".

You know, and take this right, I do dislike you a bit at times for overusing and getting rid of her eyeroll.

I now I can access one in the emojis but not the same.

According to who in police?

And between the creek and his planning AND I already addressed the thing about the one who saw him walking before this. Mud and blood, oh yeah that looks a lot different. And I was NOT a GUY. So you don't even have that straight. Sigh.

There has been no guy witness in this ENTIRE CASE.

 

[GrandmaBear]

That does bother me. It's one thing that's perplexing. If there is a good reason for clearing him, not a theory, I have yet to hear it.

Yeah, we are just STARTING to hear some other things from the P who held close etc. They weren't going to call you or I and spill the stuff. And still aren't but as we get close, we are getting more now that pretrial motions are being handled.

That is perplexing though isnt' it? If you are honest, the D has stayed away from RL with a ten foot pole. Imo it is because it's not viable.

I mean imo the Os and KK aren't either BUT ya know when they have four to six Os and KK had a meeting with Libby and they REALLY did a lot with interviewing him and far more (not the D, LE) even if one O has an alibi or something, pick another I say four to six (because of the guards) and KK probably couldn't tell ya where he was or would not and DID talk of and to Libby about meeting. RL is OUT of it.

You will of course never see that until the cows come home. And they will have to come out, prove it and show it even though both sides, even the D, seems to know it is not viable.

And go ahead. Am I asking too much to ask that you discuss some of the newer stuff with us and not try to relate it to RL? I mean we know what you think.

But I mean we have some new sh*t here. RA supposedly telling someone he threw a box cutter in the dumpster at work. And a cop saying the murder weapon was a box cutter. is this ONE of the facts that they remarked on he knew things in some confessions that only the killer could know...? If SO, that is HUGE.

Do what you like but you can try to relate it all later IF it even anything ever relates to RL in any way, or if it does not. Just put him aside, again you don't have to, and help look at the new info, regardless of what or who. That is SO huge against Allen if he knew the murder weapon and said it and LE knew what the weapon was before he did. HUGE. BIG.

We can later talk about if RL, the Os, KK, HE77 anyone was involved with him.

And as much as I don't like it the O thing is on the table right now a bit. RL is not.

You are not going to change the case, or the internet and LE saying OMG look emu and some others think this and it must be RL. We have it all wrong.

Again we know what you think, we know it very well, but how about not putting him aside but not trying right now to relate it to him? And just talking the new sh*t? I mean that can all be done later or after or whatever. We FINALLY are seeing more, not a ton but some fair bit has come out...

Do what you like but just saying... Asking actually...

And no you haven't heard why the D does not conside him at all, because you know they'd go for anyone a possibility. They even mentioned KK and went to that. One has to (or you don't) read between the lines, you don't have to do anything) on why. And no the reason has not been shared but it has been out there long ago that the P cleared him. And of course, you know this D, they are NOT going to just go along, if questionable. They have been on the Os but they did just bring up KK but never RL. So they did do a bit of adding one and an alternate with KK but again, not RL.

But again, keep your theory and please just discuss the new sh*t without trying to relate it. You can or not as you choose. I though am not going down that road. And I mean you can keep doing it, and boy oh boy you may be totally right and they have it all wrong, BOTH SIDES, but right now you aren't going to find out a thing anyhow because there is nothing RL going on int his AT ALL. By either side, in the hearings and by either side up to this point, nor will there be at trial.

Again, you don't have to but how about just some talk and debate of what we are learning? I mean BELIEVE me not a one here (not speaking for others) and certainly not me, is going to forge that you think and where you stand.

I have no time but there's a fair amount to really think about and discuss here. I even touched on the dumb O thing earlier, I can't believe it.

Also you know I did not rule out RL totally with you for a long time. But that wasn't that I was sold on it at all, but that I didn't see enough reason to make it an impossibility.

And I've said it before but here we are again, I am done with talking of such. There is not one thing from either side that touches on him. Not the D EITHER. And they would use anyone the could.

Also you hate unfair arrests and convictions but you are doing the same here as what you hate. Did RL's fingerprints match? His DNA? Etc.? That is what you keep doing the other direction.

Thank God I don't work til noon tomorrow. Still won't be enough time because it was on heck of a day but at least it isn't a 7 start.

All in good discussion I'd hope.

 

[GrandmaBear]

At the very least, some evidence has been manipulated, and that really bothers me.

What evidence? And I'm not being facetious or anything, I'm wondering what you think for sure was? And why? I am asking a serous question, it is not meant as anything else.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

What evidence? And I'm not being facetious or anything, I'm wondering what you think for sure was? And why? I am asking a serous question, it is not meant as anything else.

Adding "bloody" when that was never said. There are also some other questionable things in the Frank's Memo." The "bloody" thing being one of them. Why did the cops lie about that? The prosecution never challenged that as being untrue.

I bring things up just like others dismiss them because he was arrested, so that means he's guilty.

After thinking about RL, I think that because he died, they couldn't interview him anymore. They couldn't catch him in conflicting stories.so they can't present much evidence, except that he lied to cover the time the kids were killed.

What's disturbing is nobody here seems to care about his lying so it would appear he had an alibi.

People here are convinced he did it, any contradictory evidence be darned.

There was the whole cat hair thing that some were pushing, but it turned out to be untrue.

All I want is for people to open their minds. I have done so. If you don't know that it's because people haven't read all of my posts.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

It was never put down maybe in an initial report. Does not mean she did not say it. Also doesn't mean she didn't say such in later interviews. I recall the remark that he looked like he had been in a fight was here from day one. Well? Do you get muddy or BLOODY in a fight? If you haven't been in the desert but fighting with maybe a battling Libby in WINTER and then were in a creek on the ground would you get muddy? I think yeah possibly but it is the bloody in dispute not by most but by some uhm certain types. She said I am about 100 percent like he'd been in a fight from DAy ONE, I have followed for years.

What would you think like he'd been in a fight would mean? BLOODY. A fight would not mean you assume it because you are wet or muddy. A black eye would. Blood would. Etc.

OMG this one to me is so stupid. NOT meaning you,but the D or anyone doing it and buying into this one. Hey they can call her to testify, either side can. And so?

Where did she say a black eye?

Yeah, we are just STARTING to hear some other things from the P who held close etc. They weren't going to call you or I and spill the stuff. And still aren't but as we get close, we are getting more now that pretrial motions are being handled.

That is perplexing though isnt' it? If you are honest, the D has stayed away from RL with a ten foot pole. Imo it is because it's not viable.

I mean imo the Os and KK aren't either BUT ya know when they have four to six Os and KK had a meeting with Libby and they REALLY did a lot with interviewing him and far more (not the D, LE) even if one O has an alibi or something, pick another I say four to six (because of the guards) and KK probably couldn't tell ya where he was or would not and DID talk of and to Libby about meeting. RL is OUT of it.

You will of course never see that until the cows come home. And they will have to come out, prove it and show it even though both sides, even the D, seems to know it is not viable.

And go ahead. Am I asking too much to ask that you discuss some of the newer stuff with us and not try to relate it to RL? I mean we know what you think.

But I mean we have some new sh*t here. RA supposedly telling someone he threw a box cutter in the dumpster at work. And a cop saying the murder weapon was a box cutter. is this ONE of the facts that they remarked on he knew things in some confessions that only the killer could know...? If SO, that is HUGE.

Do what you like but you can try to relate it all later IF it even anything ever relates to RL in any way, or if it does not. Just put him aside, again you don't have to, and help look at the new info, regardless of what or who. That is SO huge against Allen if he knew the murder weapon and said it and LE knew what the weapon was before he did. HUGE. BIG.

We can later talk about if RL, the Os, KK, HE77 anyone was involved with him.

And as much as I don't like it the O thing is on the table right now a bit. RL is not.

You are not going to change the case, or the internet and LE saying OMG look emu and some others think this and it must be RL. We have it all wrong.

Again we know what you think, we know it very well, but how about not putting him aside but not trying right now to relate it to him? And just talking the new sh*t? I mean that can all be done later or after or whatever. We FINALLY are seeing more, not a ton but some fair bit has come out...

Do what you like but just saying... Asking actually...

And no you haven't heard why the D does not conside him at all, because you know they'd go for anyone a possibility. They even mentioned KK and went to that. One has to (or you don't) read between the lines, you don't have to do anything) on why. And no the reason has not been shared but it has been out there long ago that the P cleared him. And of course, you know this D, they are NOT going to just go along, if questionable. They have been on the Os but they did just bring up KK but never RL. So they did do a bit of adding one and an alternate with KK but again, not RL.

But again, keep your theory and please just discuss the new sh*t without trying to relate it. You can or not as you choose. I though am not going down that road. And I mean you can keep doing it, and boy oh boy you may be totally right and they have it all wrong, BOTH SIDES, but right now you aren't going to find out a thing anyhow because there is nothing RL going on int his AT ALL. By either side, in the hearings and by either side up to this point, nor will there be at trial.

Again, you don't have to but how about just some talk and debate of what we are learning? I mean BELIEVE me not a one here (not speaking for others) and certainly not me, is going to forge that you think and where you stand.

I have no time but there's a fair amount to really think about and discuss here. I even touched on the dumb O thing earlier, I can't believe it.

Also you know I did not rule out RL totally with you for a long time. But that wasn't that I was sold on it at all, but that I didn't see enough reason to make it an impossibility.

And I've said it before but here we are again, I am done with talking of such. There is not one thing from either side that touches on him. Not the D EITHER. And they would use anyone the could.

Also you hate unfair arrests and convictions but you are doing the same here as what you hate. Did RL's fingerprints match? His DNA? Etc.? That is what you keep doing the other direction.

Thank God I don't work til noon tomorrow. Still won't be enough time because it was on heck of a day but at least it isn't a 7 start.

All in good discussion I'd hope.

Make excuses all you want, but things don't add up if you remove the lies.

Why doesn't that bother anyone else?