LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Tresir]

This is what RA is concerned about. This could be a reason why the D leaked the CS photos. I wonder who RA said this to? His attorneys? It certainly wasn't a phone call to his family. IIRC MW took photos of the photos in August didn't he?

"Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family."

Just a reminder that Detective Harshman transcribed all the phone call confessions. They have the recordings. They did not make the recordings - the CC's did that. (Westville and Wabash).

 

[Tresir]

Well thought out theory, except for one thing. The murderer would have been covered in blood. That's according to the police. The guy who reported the "Muddy wet" guy says he never said "Muddy".

The woman you mean? Only female witnesses saw him. He partially washed himself in the creek when he threw the clothes in there IMO.

 

[Tresir]

We are up to 4th and 5th places now both with 9 Golds each. You have more silver and bronzes so it puts you 4th. Of course your population is about 5 times ours though.

Just posting this bit again from the earlier testimony, about the confessions, which continued when he got to Wabash, so cannot be blamed on conditions IMO.

Allen’s confession season covered the months of April through July of last year, which coincided with his mental illness crisis which was partially abated by injections of Haldol to curb his depression, anxiety and disorganized thinking.
Allen was later transferred to the Indiana Department of Correction’s Wabash Valley Correctional Facility south of Terre Haute where Harshman said a corrections officer overheard the defendant “apologize for killing Abby,” and that Allen wanted to, “tell the truth and be honest.”
Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family.
On cross-examination by Defense Attorney Bradley Rozzi, Harshman said in all the monitored phone calls, Allen did not ever say he shot or molested the girls and would occasionally pronounce his innocence.
During earlier testimony, John Galipeau, former warden at Westville, said that one day while standing outside of Allen’s cell door he heard the accused man admit to the killings and refer to the victims by name.
Reportedly guards and other inmates have also said they heard Allen confess unprompted.
ISP Lt. Jerry Holeman testified that an inmate claimed Allen admitted he threw away a boxcutter in a dumpster behind the CVS store where he worked in Delphi.
Prosecutors are expected to introduce bullet evidence linking Allen to a gun displayed at the murder scene and that Libby and Abby died of cutting wounds.

Bringing this forward as it mentions the testimony about the box cutter.

 

[GrandmaBear]

@Cousin Dupree

I scrolled and saw where you said the box cutter was rumour and the one about LE not listening to the calls and realised the post was not factual. I am guessing you are ignoring what went on at court last week then? I don't know why you are not reading or noting the hearing details.

The box cutter was mentioned by RA in a confession and by an LE member on the stand that it was the murder weapon (not sure of the context there due to news). It was definitely not a rumor. I suspected he was not even reading posts or taking them in at all.

AND LE was most definitely listening to calls and such was said as well. Just as they were in Daybell.

I saw one word as I scrolled quickly past and I can't recall what it was but similar, in that, it struck me immediately as false. And I'm going to leave it at that and not talk "around" him either. I'm absolutely done with it.

I'd like to know the context of the box cutter and if LE was actually saying it is known to be the murder weapon or IF they were referring to RA said it was the murder weapon. It SOUNDED as if they said it IS the murder weapon and that means he knew something only the killer could know. That's the way it was put by news but I'd just like to be certain it is the way it was meant.

Well we should be seeing some decisions I'd think within a week or so if not sooner. I don't think Gull will wait too long although she will want them well written (unlike the D lol) with solid backup for her decisions and that will take a bit of time but I also do not think she will take too long as trial is now in a couple of months (I forget the actual October date, just know October) and she doesn't need anyone whining they did not have time after knowing the decisions.

I tell you it is going to be very frustrating when this trial goes on without any kind of live coverage, not even tweets. News in my opinion was slow on this and then never still imo have covered all. I think it shows that any YTer that would have or formerly would have or could have attended was part of their leak system. Silence. I am not saying all by any means, meaning all YTers because Tom does not hesitate to go or to report for instance. He went for the last ones which ended up canceled last minute and rescheduled and were the ones just recently held. I was hoping he would make it again but apparently he could not. And trial would be an even longer commitment.

Well I am going into my "hump" day, already beyond tired. Hump day meaning my middle day of the week in case that is not a term over there. My weeks are almost always Saturday through Wednesday so Monday is my hump day. It does't match the pay or hours week but it is how I think of my weeks. Already beyond tired. And it will end with a work til past 9 and back at 7 or 7:30 the next morning, I forget. Those are tough.

Anyhow I have said it before but will again, this trial is so overdue to be tried. The D has had AMPLE time now to be prepared, beyond actually, and time to go to the ISC in between, and more. The P has clearly been ready each time and are prepared.

As far as I'm concerned the D has let their client "languish" longer.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Our handbrake (parking brake) is in between the front seats behind the gear stick. HGV is Heavy Goods Vehicle - ie a truck driver.

We call that the emergency brake, some may the parking brake. Rarely used except like if parking on a hill, etc, downward. Most cars (not all) are automatic transmission with no gear stick and that brake is on the left of the drive under the console by the door and would be almost impossible for a passenger to reach and engage.

Okay, heavy goods. Different term than here then too. Meaning semi or just any size truck with heavy goods?

Still, he man should have lost any commercial license for life imo. You don't do anger that results in messing with driving and mix it with a man who commercially drives and who could erupt at any time. Jmo.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Just a reminder that Detective Harshman transcribed all the phone call confessions. They have the recordings. They did not make the recordings - the CC's did that. (Westville and Wabash).

Yeah it is the same was what was done in Daybell and it is far from uncommon and most lawyers warn their defendant clients about such as well... That NOTHING is private except a talk with their own attorneys. Well when, that is, their attorneys, actually talk to them.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The woman you mean? Only female witnesses saw him. He partially washed himself in the creek when he threw the clothes in there IMO.

Yeah he said guy earlier too by a day or two then corrected himself later, now he is back to it being a guy again. He is NOT following anything but his train of thought nor taking in the new stuff at all.
Done.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Bringing this forward as it mentions the testimony about the box cutter.

LE also said it was the murder weapon but again, I'd like to know the context of that.

It sure the HE77 is no rumor, it is now part of the legal proceedings, testimony and court transcripts.

 

[Tresir]

We call that the emergency brake, some may the parking brake. Rarely used except like if parking on a hill, etc, downward. Most cars (not all) are automatic transmission with no gear stick and that brake is on the left of the drive under the console by the door and would be almost impossible for a passenger to reach and engage.

Okay, heavy goods. Different term than here then too. Meaning semi or just any size truck with heavy goods?

Still, he man should have lost any commercial license for life imo. You don't do anger that results in messing with driving and mix it with a man who commercially drives and who could erupt at any time. Jmo.

HGV is over 7 tons I think. We have an old 7 ton horse box and you can drive up to that weight with a normal licence. We don't use it any more and it is just in the barn unused.

 

[GrandmaBear]

HGV is over 7 tons I think. We have an old 7 ton horse box and you can drive up to that weight with a normal licence. We don't use it any more and it is just in the barn unused.

We have different weight classes too and different licenses for each or what a person can drive up to how much weight and various other criteria so probably similar. I just don't think we call one HGV and so just the different titles I guess for such here and there where you are.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Our handbrake (parking brake) is in between the front seats behind the gear stick. HGV is Heavy Goods Vehicle - ie a truck driver.

So are ours.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

The video is 11 and a half minutes.

Here's a rundown of the hearing from the video.

1. The confessions ALL came when he was housed at Wabash and was being involuntarily medicated. They came over a two month window. This is most likely why the defense wants them thrown out. He was eating his feces and running back and forth in his cell to bash his head against the wall. (My question: Were there any medical reports on his condition from hitting the walls?) His confessions were to staff and other inmates. Some were written down and contain information that only the killer would know. This is not a fact. It's what the state is saying. Since they added "bloody" to the statement made by the woman, I have deep doubts about almost anything they say. What the state says DO NOT QUALIFY THEM AS FACTS. Some confessions contain false facts! Allegedly these were the harshest conditions he faced there. One of the confessions says he molested the girls and shot them. ALL of that is not true.

In addition to the defense not wanting them in, the prosecution wants to limit some of the confessions. My guess is the false confessions will cast doubt on the "real" confessions.

2. Cameras were not allowed in the hearing.

3. He now isn't housed in solitary confinement anymore.

4. All of the motions are being taken under advisement by the judge, and she will issue a decision over the next few days.

5. The psychologist who was treating him during the two month period while he was eating feces and "confessing", joined facebook groups talking about the crime, and could have been participating in some of the discussions about his mental health. The psychologist could be impeached based upon the information coming out about her.

6. The prosecution wants certain words kept out. Words like: Odinism and the names of the potential suspects the defense says are Odinists. (I agree with keeping their names out, unless more information links them to the crime.) They also want Keegan Kline and RL not mentioned. I see absolutely no reason either of them should be excluded. The defense should be allowed to question officers on how thoroughly they investigated RL, and Kline conversing with Libby definitely should not be left out.

7. After RA was arrested, the state said that more arrests could be coming. Now it's just him.

8. You both are treating the box cutter as conclusive evidence. There is NO evidence that a box cutter was the murder weapon. Allegedly, RA confessed to using one. That's all they have. All we know is they were killed by some kind of knife. Again, the box cutter is NOT a fact.

9. A woman came in and testified that this fit all the criteria for a ritualistic crime scene. (Previously, the state lied about what a professor said about the crime scene.)

10. A detective testified that using his own blood that he had lab people draw, he found that using the height of a similarly sized officer: (Libby German 5'4") it matched her placing her hand against the tree. (This was done to debunk the letter "F" on the tree. Even I don't think it's a letter "F")

11. Abby and Libby's families are under a gag order.

12. It seems pretty obvious Judge Gull will not allow camera's in the courtroom for the trial. IMO, and the people discussing the case in the video, that is a mistake. As one put it: "If there was ever a case that we need more transparency than this one ever, it is the Delphi case."

Right now, cell phones, recorders, and any other electronics are forbidden. It's all notes being taken with pen and paper.

*My take: Why all the secrecy? This case needs public scrutiny. The prosecution lying about "bloody", then lying about what the professor said, then only getting "confessions" while he was being "involuntarily" medicated at one facility and the mysterious five years to arrest RA, are all things that are very hinky.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

It seems to me that some here are taking the prosecution's word as gospel and the defense's word as nonsense.

 

[RoundPeg]

The video is 11 and a half minutes.

Here's a rundown of the hearing from the video.

1. The confessions ALL came when he was housed at Wabash and was being involuntarily medicated. They came over a two month window. This is most likely why the defense wants them thrown out. He was eating his feces and running back and forth in his cell to bash his head against the wall. (My question: Were there any medical reports on his condition from hitting the walls?) His confessions were to staff and other inmates. Some were written down and contain information that only the killer would know. This is not a fact. It's what the state is saying. Since they added "bloody" to the statement made by the woman, I have deep doubts about almost anything they say. What the state says DO NOT QUALIFY THEM AS FACTS. Some confessions contain false facts! Allegedly these were the harshest conditions he faced there. One of the confessions says he molested the girls and shot them. ALL of that is not true.

In addition to the defense not wanting them in, the prosecution wants to limit some of the confessions. My guess is the false confessions will cast doubt on the "real" confessions.

2. Cameras were not allowed in the hearing.

3. He now isn't housed in solitary confinement anymore.

4. All of the motions are being taken under advisement by the judge, and she will issue a decision over the next few days.

5. The psychologist who was treating him during the two month period while he was eating feces and "confessing", joined facebook groups talking about the crime, and could have been participating in some of the discussions about his mental health. The psychologist could be impeached based upon the information coming out about her.

6. The prosecution wants certain words kept out. Words like: Odinism and the names of the potential suspects the defense says are Odinists. (I agree with keeping their names out, unless more information links them to the crime.) They also want Keegan Kline and RL not mentioned. I see absolutely no reason either of them should be excluded. The defense should be allowed to question officers on how thoroughly they investigated RL, and Kline conversing with Libby definitely should not be left out.

7. After RA was arrested, the state said that more arrests could be coming. Now it's just him.

8. You both are treating the box cutter as conclusive evidence. There is NO evidence that a box cutter was the murder weapon. Allegedly, RA confessed to using one. That's all they have. All we know is they were killed by some kind of knife. Again, the box cutter is NOT a fact.

9. A woman came in and testified that this fit all the criteria for a ritualistic crime scene. (Previously, the state lied about what a professor said about the crime scene.)

10. A detective testified that using his own blood that he had lab people draw, he found that using the height of a similarly sized officer: (Libby German 5'4") it matched her placing her hand against the tree. (This was done to debunk the letter "F" on the tree. Even I don't think it's a letter "F")

11. Abby and Libby's families are under a gag order.

12. It seems pretty obvious Judge Gull will not allow camera's in the courtroom for the trial. IMO, and the people discussing the case in the video, that is a mistake. As one put it: "If there was ever a case that we need more transparency than this one ever, it is the Delphi case."

Right now, cell phones, recorders, and any other electronics are forbidden. It's all notes being taken with pen and paper.

*My take: Why all the secrecy? This case needs public scrutiny. The prosecution lying about "bloody", then lying about what the professor said, then only getting "confessions" while he was being "involuntarily" medicated at one facility and the mysterious five years to arrest RA, are all things that are very hinky.

A fixed camera could be deployed here. What gets me is Judge Gull (in Allen County) had a pilot program for televising trial proceedings. She just denies, denies, denies. I wish she would just hint at why.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

A fixed camera could be deployed here. What gets me is Judge Gull (in Allen County) had a pilot program for televising trial proceedings. She just denies, denies, denies. I wish she would just hint at why.

I have a theory on why she doesn't want THIS TRIAL televised. I think I've hinted at my theory enough that people can figure it out.

 

[Tresir]

The video is 11 and a half minutes.

Here's a rundown of the hearing from the video.

1. The confessions ALL came when he was housed at Wabash and was being involuntarily medicated. They came over a two month window. This is most likely why the defense wants them thrown out. He was eating his feces and running back and forth in his cell to bash his head against the wall. (My question: Were there any medical reports on his condition from hitting the walls?) His confessions were to staff and other inmates. Some were written down and contain inf2²ormation that only the killer would know. This is not a fact. It's what the state is saying. Since they added "bloody" to the statement made by the woman, I have deep doubts about almost anything they say. What the state says DO NOT QUALIFY THEM AS FACTS. Some confessions contain false facts! Allegedly these were the harshest conditions he faced there. One of the confessions says he molested the girls and shot them. ALL of that is not true.

In addition to the defense not wanting them in, the prosecution wants to limit some of the confessions. My guess is the false confessions will cast doubt on the "real" confessions.

2. Cameras were not allowed in the hearing.

3. He now isn't housed in solitary confinement anymore.

4. All of the motions are being taken under advisement by the judge, and she will issue a decision over the next few days.

5. The psychologist who was treating him during the two month period while he was eating feces and "confessing", joined facebook groups talking about the crime, and could have been participating in some of the discussions about his mental health. The psychologist could be impeached based upon the information coming out about her.

6. The prosecution wants certain words kept out. Words like: Odinism and the names of the potential suspects the defense says are Odinists. (I agree with keeping their names out, unless more information links them to the crime.) They also want Keegan Kline and RL not mentioned. I see absolutely no reason either of them should be excluded. The defense should be allowed to question officers on how thoroughly they investigated RL, and Kline conversing with Libby definitely should not be left out.

7. After RA was arrested, the state said that more arrests could be coming. Now it's just him.

8. You both are treating the box cutter as conclusive evidence. There is NO evidence that a box cutter was the murder weapon. Allegedly, RA confessed to using one. That's all they have. All we know is they were killed by some kind of knife. Again, the box cutter is NOT a fact.

9. A woman came in and testified that this fit all the criteria for a ritualistic crime scene. (Previously, the state lied about what a professor said about the crime scene.)

10. A detective testified that using his own blood that he had lab people draw, he found that using the height of a similarly sized officer: (Libby German 5'4") it matched her placing her hand against the tree. (This was done to debunk the letter "F" on the tree. Even I don't think it's a letter "F")

11. Abby and Libby's families are under a gag order.

12. It seems pretty obvious Judge Gull will not allow camera's in the courtroom for the trial. IMO, and the people discussing the case in the video, that is a mistake. As one put it: "If there was ever a case that we need more transparency than this one ever, it is the Delphi case."

Right now, cell phones, recorders, and any other electronics are forbidden. It's all notes being taken with pen and paper.

*My take: Why all the secrecy? This case needs public scrutiny. The prosecution lying about "bloody", then lying about what the professor said, then only getting "confessions" while he was being "involuntarily" medicated at one facility and the mysterious five years to arrest RA, are all things that are very hinky.

I believe the majority of the confessions were at Westville in the two month period he was under the physchologist, not at Wabash. Also, they were not just to staff and inmates but were over the telephone also. So they have that wrong.

It is RA saying he used a CVS box cutter and disposed of it in a CVS dumpster. It depends if his confessions are believed regarding this. I am treating it at face value.

The secrecy is due to the gag order and the nature of the crime. There has already been a leak of the photos, so the secrecy is due to that and to stop sensationalism IMO.

The statement in the video "what was the juiciest thing we heard?" Is typical of these news organisations.

 

[Tresir]

It seems to me that some here are taking the prosecution's word as gospel and the defense's word as nonsense.

Who are you referring to? There aren't many of us and you say "some". We can believe who we like. It seems to me some people are FOS so I will believe whoever I want to believe.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I believe the majority of the confessions were at Westville in the two month period he was under the physchologist, not at Wabash. Also, they were not just to staff and inmates but were over the telephone also. So they have that wrong.

It is RA saying he used a CVS box cutter and disposed of it in a CVS dumpster. It depends if his confessions are believed regarding this. I am treating it at face value.

The secrecy is due to the gag order and the nature of the crime. There has already been a leak of the photos, so the secrecy is due to that and to stop sensationalism IMO.

The statement in the video "what was the juiciest thing we heard?" Is typical of these news organisations.

Not according to the video. The box cutter is coming from the prosecution. Other than their words there is no proof.

The defense says Odinists did it and have more proof than just flapping their gums.

Why do you believe what the prosecution says, without any proof, other than what they said?

The prosecution could be basing that on next to nothing. Just the words of someone unreliable.

If his confessions came while he was being tortured, then they should be thrown out.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Will Odinism be part of Delphi murder trial testimony? What we learned

Three days of hearings ahead of accused killer Richard Allen's trial revealed details not previously made public.

www.indystar.com

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Will Odinism be part of Delphi murder trial testimony? What we learned

Three days of hearings ahead of accused killer Richard Allen's trial revealed details not previously made public.

www.indystar.com

Was more than one person involved in killing Libby German and Abigail Williams?​

Murphy, the former Indiana State Police detective, testified that the early consensus among investigators was that two to six people were involved in the killings. He focused his investigation mainly on another alleged Odinist whose sister told investigators that he'd confessed to the crime.

Elvis Fields' sister, the retired detective testified, provided "very specific" information only someone who was at the crime scene would've known. Murphy also recalled a recorded phone call between Fields and his sister, during which she blurted out, "Elvis, why did you kill those girls?"

Fields denied killing the girls when interviewed by detectives. But Murphy recounted an interaction that caught him off guard: After Fields consented to a DNA swab test, he asked Murphy if he would get in trouble if his spit was found on the girls.


This is disturbing:

"The data we gave is the data we have," McLeland said, adding that it is not the state's job to organize the data for the defense. "We've done everything possible to make it easy for them. But here we are."

So, according to McLeland, the state could supply the evidence in a secret code as long as they give the code key to the defense. Even if that code, with the key, would take months to decipher.