LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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The O memo is not evidence. It is a fairy tale. Hopefully that will be gone for good soon. Then the jury selection can begin and the trial get underway. I spent yesterday chilling out watching the Olympics and will probably do the same today.
 
Just because nobody is pushing the RL theory, and you're wrong about that, the internet has others that agree with me. You haven't even payed any attention to the links I've provided, and you haven't been following the case from the very beginning. So just ignore what I'm saying, but it's based on facts you don't know anything about. Laughing at my theories would make more sense if you'd been following the case from the beginning. 15 people said that bridge guy was RL, but that's not significant?
He is not a POI anymore. I have been following the case from day one so you are wrong on that too. You are the one who has not been following from the beginning. It would be like me continuing to insist that DN had done it. You remember him? I want to concentrate on the trial and not old outdated internet theories.
 
This is what RA is concerned about. This could be a reason why the D leaked the CS photos. I wonder who RA said this to? His attorneys? It certainly wasn't a phone call to his family. IIRC MW took photos of the photos in August didn't he?

"Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family."
 
Adding "bloody" when that was never said. There are also some other questionable things in the Frank's Memo." The "bloody" thing being one of them. Why did the cops lie about that? The prosecution never challenged that as being untrue.

I bring things up just like others dismiss them because he was arrested, so that means he's guilty.

After thinking about RL, I think that because he died, they couldn't interview him anymore. They couldn't catch him in conflicting stories.so they can't present much evidence, except that he lied to cover the time the kids were killed.

What's disturbing is nobody here seems to care about his lying so it would appear he had an alibi.

People here are convinced he did it, any contradictory evidence be darned.

There was the whole cat hair thing that some were pushing, but it turned out to be untrue.

All I want is for people to open their minds. I have done so. If you don't know that it's because people haven't read all of my posts.
I don't think he is guilty just be because he was "arrested". There is his bullet, his gun, his confessions, and more.

As to the bloody, also been discussed back when to no end and I just also talked of it not far above here last night. This happens all of the time. You bring something up that I just already addressed just last night... ??

Who is RL? He is a non anything even to the DEFENSE. I am about to forget him for good. His lying also has been covered to no end. NONE of this is new and NONE of it has not previously been discussed over and over and over.

I was never overboard on the cat hair thing and I don't think anything has been shown to be true or untrue with that or anything else not know for certain.

You have opened your mind? When was that? I see no such thing. You are stuck and can look at nothing but the same old things that were HOW long ago and nothing since.

Again the D does not even touch on him or use him. Logic dictates there is a real reason for that. Yet they brought up KK.

You know, there probably is some RL did it fan page somewhere.... In all jest maybe you want to go find it or or already on it.

By the way, we did not know about RA prior, but many times I think someone guilty BEFORE they are ever arrested in many a case LOL and so an arrest does not determine at all what I think.

I'm about to forget forever who RL is. Talk to someone else about it. We've all already been through it ALL.

His dying did not stop them proceeding with him, what are you talking of? They were NOT proceeding with him.

The case is moving some and with any luck there will also be trial now in pretty short order. You talk of people going with something because there was an "arrest". Uhm no, there's been plenty since the arrest and now more finally coming out.

You don't open your mind. You have not even talked about new info and if you do, it is with blinders that only try to fit it into your beliefs when not a thing about it fits nor is anyone else trying to do so. But I've said, go ahead, that's your right.

RL no longer exists to me and from here on out, that is where I am going. You do nothing but constantly try to drag people back to the same old. Try something new and get stuck on the Os. I wouldn't like that much either but at least it would be a change of pace and at this point might actually seem like a breath of fresh air. I mean I don't want that either but the other thing has been beat to death so bad it should have it's own RL thread for you.

I've tried to yet again nice about it and even ask that you may be at least discuss the new stuff because there are some new "pages" now in this case but you won''t. And again, your right.

Maybe I'l find a new spot or something on this one. OH I already have more than once, taken a break from this and gone elsewhere to Tom, etc. where it is not always the same old.

Tie RA to RL for me please? or RL to the Os for me? Or anything? Remove RA from the trails and bridge? TIE them. Not that the Os were there either but MAKE it WORK. It doesn't and it's ridiculous.

I had a long post (I think, not sure but think I posted it) in the last week or so of why RL lied. He was drinking and driving. THAT too has been covered many, many, many times. He is NOT BG and that is so obvious it is beyond obvious.

The VOICE is RA and WHO sent the girls "down the hill" is most definitely the murderer or involved. By the way my being convinced of that does NOT come from the fact he was "arrested". Arrest has never had a thing to do with who I feel is guilty in cases as many a time I am there BEFORE that. Not here of course because we never knew of RA's existence but my being convinced has to do with a lot more than just his arrest.

This isn't an attack, it is meant to discuss and respond to your such accusations.

I've said before too, MORE THAN ONCE, that I don't always have the popular opinion by a long shot. I STAY out of Read for the most part because mine does not match what most of the rest of you think,. It matches a lot on some of the people but not the reasons for it, etc. HERE your opinion is not the popular one and I don't believe anyone shares it. And you are welcome to it. But there is a different between having a different one and recognizing that and trying to repeatedly stuff yours down everyone else's throat and take the thread constantly to it.

Do I go there and stay and do that? I think it's been at least a month and I think I may have went in and said what I thought of how it turned out or some such and that's it.

When the whole internet of crime things was saturated with her sh*t and one could find little else on, I watched enough, not always by choice and at least found that the whole world doesn't think that way and you can too with RL. I doubt much of it but there are some out there.

You know you could go try to see if Barb McDonald has a channel. I wouldn't know.

And if I EVER get time I am going to ask Linda what she thinks today re I forget his name. Ron somebody... See I'm already starting to erase him for good.

LOL.

I am not positive yet, but I am pretty sure the box cutter thing RA knew but could never have known unless the killer himself. P said in these hearings which imo typical news has not covered fully AT ALL that some of these confessions had facts in them only the killer could know and I think that was one example and they have more. They have held very close to the vest but now we are in pretrial hearings and some has to come out so they gave an example.

Again tie now I have totally forgot his name that old dude you think was BG to RA.

RA totally panicked over the evidence. And his defense when they finally got around to realizing they messed up leaving him languish then did as well to cover their butts and are trying to get it ALL thrown out.

Blinders. You don't even entertain anything else nor do you take anything new in without trying to fit it to your mold.

Anyhow, this is my first anything on waking up. Not coffeed as this was how it started.

You know despite what anyone thinks of any case and if they differ, going on and on and beating the same old drum with nothing new and repeating the same old things and links does what? Absolutely nothing except irritate.

Maybe there's something new on a what's his name again? Forum but I doubt it. I think you've brought all there is and we have ALL heard it, seen it, etc.

ON the flip side aside from HIS gun, RA appeared to have used a box cutter. OH MY that is NEW. But just ignore that, don't even discuss it. Heck you haven't even tried yet to acknowledge that or tie it to whatever his name is. It's like nothing was ever said about such or anything else in the hearings although you kept waiting for confessions and other things and still are to tie in what's his name.

And you, who go on about people wrongfully convicted, are doing such with him. Take a GOOD LOOK which you will NOT but you are.

I don't think you even read anything here unless it is a response to you and even then you don't fully.

I get little time and yet if I haven't read something try to say so, or looked at a link, etc.

I need to go make some coffee. Should have done so first.

Peace and hugs. And more than one has said it here many, many, many times. I am done with it.
 
Where did she say a black eye?




Make excuses all you want, but things don't add up if you remove the lies.

Why doesn't that bother anyone else?
She did NOT say a black eye. Oh God don't go off with false sh*t now. I said things that would be TYPICAL from a fight. NOT that she said any such thing. And last night you had it a he. A month or so ago you had the college kids at Idaho killed by gun. I think I probably have LESS time than you do but I keep up on the basic facts.

I was talking of things that one may mean by saying someone looked like from a fight, MEANING bloody would be one no? And then saying black eye would be etc. Good Lord. TYPICAL things we could intuit if someone said someone looked like they'd been in a fight to show bloody would be ONE. NO ONE said black eye, I was giving an EXAMPLE.
 
Just because nobody is pushing the RL theory, and you're wrong about that, the internet has others that agree with me. You haven't even payed any attention to the links I've provided, and you haven't been following the case from the very beginning. So just ignore what I'm saying, but it's based on facts you don't know anything about. Laughing at my theories would make more sense if you'd been following the case from the beginning. 15 people said that bridge guy was RL, but that's not significant?
The internet has a lot of crazy people that agree with a lot of crazy sh*t and even start it.
 
The O memo is not evidence. It is a fairy tale. Hopefully that will be gone for good soon. Then the jury selection can begin and the trial get underway. I spent yesterday chilling out watching the Olympics and will probably do the same today.
Good for you. I do love a lot of the events at such. Not a fan of all the other things surrounding and not just this year either but some incredible athletes no doubt. No time and no TV and can't keep up with what I do follow hardly.

A chill day is so necessary, down time, etc.
 
He is not a POI anymore. I have been following the case from day one so you are wrong on that too. You are the one who has not been following from the beginning. It would be like me continuing to insist that DN had done it. You remember him? I want to concentrate on the trial and not old outdated internet theories.
there have been MANY through the years entertained on in the internet. I can't even name them all. Even looked at more than one myself when so. I looked at the one whose name I NOW can't remember and KK and more. And everyone who was ever arrested in IN through all these years for anything relating to children and more.

But I'm not stuck there, that's what you do when waiting for more answers and them to find the perp.

I'm sick of seeing the beating of a dead horse. Actually it is beating a dead man who has been cleared. LONG ago.
 
This is what RA is concerned about. This could be a reason why the D leaked the CS photos. I wonder who RA said this to? His attorneys? It certainly wasn't a phone call to his family. IIRC MW took photos of the photos in August didn't he?

"Harshman said one of the telephone confessions he had transcribed recorded Allen’s concern over what evidence would be revealed at his trial, specifically crime scene photographs, and the impact that would have on his family."
Are you referring at the start of your post here to something specific? Not clear if this was just a general thought or you were responding to something. Who RA said what to? Are we talking box cutter, general stuff or what?

What he did to the girls?

I guess what I mean is this post is just kind of there, and not a reply to anything. Is it in response to anything specific he was worried about or just a stand alone post about generally his concerns?

My coffee is almost done. I need a cup. Lol. Five at this point. Not because of you lol. But kind of burnt out from the start about that dead man who somehow did this along with RA and the Os and who knows who else.

So how is GB doing? In the games? I am not watching of course nor looking at posts on it on here. I know Simone got another gold medal. Headlines come up on the phone which I never use for internet, etc. except at work on break.
 
Are you referring at the start of your post here to something specific? Not clear if this was just a general thought or you were responding to something. Who RA said what to? Are we talking box cutter, general stuff or what?

What he did to the girls?

I guess what I mean is this post is just kind of there, and not a reply to anything. Is it in response to anything specific he was worried about or just a stand alone post about generally his concerns?

My coffee is almost done. I need a cup. Lol. Five at this point. Not because of you lol. But kind of burnt out from the start about that dead man who somehow did this along with RA and the Os and who knows who else.

So how is GB doing? In the games? I am not watching of course nor looking at posts on it on here. I know Simone got another gold medal. Headlines come up on the phone which I never use for internet, etc. except at work on break.
It was a thought I just had and posted straight away, that's all. It is from my Detective Harshman post (the LE person who reviewed all RA's phone calls and testified last week.) I just thought of this when I re-read that whole paragraph I had copied in to my post .

RA is speaking to 'someone' (probably D) during his confession phase about the crime scene photos being shown at trial and is worried about his family seeing them.

I am wondering if that was the motive for the leak? We don't know MW's motive for leaking them do we?

I am just imagining D brainstorming with MW about these confessions and MW suggesting leaking the photos in advance. Just a theory that occurred to me. We certainly don't know why he leaked them do we and as he has done a plea deal, the motive will not ever come out. And the guy he leaked them to is dead.

GB is equal 3rd or 4th at present. US is 2nd, China still top.
 
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It was a thought I just had and posted straight away, that's all. It is from my Detective Harshman post (the LE person who reviewed all RA's phone calls and testified last week.) I just thought of this when I re-read that whole paragraph I had copied in to my post .

RA is speaking to 'someone' (probably D) during his confession phase about the crime scene photos being shown at trial and is worried about his family seeing them.

I am wondering if that was the motive for the leak? We don't know MW's motive for leaking them do we?

I am just imagining D brainstorming with MW about these confessions and MW suggesting leaking the photos in advance. Just a theory that occurred to me. We certainly don't know why he leaked them do we and as he has done a plea deal, the motive will not ever come out. And the guy he leaked them to is dead.

GB is equal 3rd or 4th at present. US is 2nd, China still top.
So you are thinking they were trying to dilute the impact of them to his family by leaking them?

I've thought about it too in similar ways and think I said something about such above but was talking about why would they when their client was so worried about them? My thought was they leaked them and purposely tied the Os to them rather than RA, to dilute them to family and to RA having done it and take away that and dilute the confessions for lack of a better word with dilute lol.

And yes, the guy in their chain is dead.

Not surprised re China. For them it is a full time, overtime mission. Rooting for one or the other of our countries though, not that I intend to watch, as I don't.

Yeah, I wasn't sure to what you were referring in that post and that's why I asked.

I got more than a couple of hours of sleep this time and had my breakfast I had to pass on yesterday. Better start to the day by far. Now I am into three 12 to 9s in a row which never end up being 9 of course but later. Next two won't be perfect but at least same shift. Actually today is 12 to 8 as it is Sunday. Yesterday since I went in early I was done by 4:30 but then had to stop and wasn't home until 5:30 or later but then I had the whole evening and this morning in between these shifts. The end of the week is going to be hard again as I will have a 12 to 9 and then the last day/followoing day have to be in at 7 I think it is. Same as it started out, hard with the back to back shifts.

I am not thrilled with the working late either but I prefer them over having to be there in the early morn.

Been watching the Doerman hearing but had to stop, it was getting to me. I only have around ten minutes to finish and meant to go back but think I am going to wait. I just do not need to add it right now and hitting where I at least have to start getting ready in between being on here. I don't think you have followed it. Guy who shot and killed his three little boys. He just took a guilty plea after just a day or two or so prior he and his D talked insanity defense. They are going through some of the details now and it is just heavy so I stopped last night, tried again this morning, but just felt I needed to step away for now. Not the gory details but just what he did, what the stepdaughter saw and more, it's just a lot to take in.

Rob Wood was live on a show re Daybell. A lot of family members are in the chat. I missed the live and haven't even watched the show but started it just to link it, etc. No time right now but I put it in the Daybell thread if interested.

It is supposed to be 79 today. Finally under the very high temps some and tomorrow like 66 degrees! I don't want winter either but man the heat bites at work too.

And so, in this one, now we await the judge's decisions... It wouldn't surprise me if more hearings pop up either. Not that the D thinks ahead. There were only these because of the last scheduled trial and last minute and they already put them off once.

I still think there's been plenty more said in them than we have likely heard but I suppose news covered most of what they figured are the bombshells by now.
 
So you are thinking they were trying to dilute the impact of them to his family by leaking them?

I've thought about it too in similar ways and think I said something about such above but was talking about why would they when their client was so worried about them? My thought was they leaked them and purposely tied the Os to them rather than RA, to dilute them to family and to RA having done it and take away that and dilute the confessions for lack of a better word with dilute lol.

And yes, the guy in their chain is dead.

Not surprised re China. For them it is a full time, overtime mission. Rooting for one or the other of our countries though, not that I intend to watch, as I don't.

Yeah, I wasn't sure to what you were referring in that post and that's why I asked.

I got more than a couple of hours of sleep this time and had my breakfast I had to pass on yesterday. Better start to the day by far. Now I am into three 12 to 9s in a row which never end up being 9 of course but later. Next two won't be perfect but at least same shift. Actually today is 12 to 8 as it is Sunday. Yesterday since I went in early I was done by 4:30 but then had to stop and wasn't home until 5:30 or later but then I had the whole evening and this morning in between these shifts. The end of the week is going to be hard again as I will have a 12 to 9 and then the last day/followoing day have to be in at 7 I think it is. Same as it started out, hard with the back to back shifts.

I am not thrilled with the working late either but I prefer them over having to be there in the early morn.

Been watching the Doerman hearing but had to stop, it was getting to me. I only have around ten minutes to finish and meant to go back but think I am going to wait. I just do not need to add it right now and hitting where I at least have to start getting ready in between being on here. I don't think you have followed it. Guy who shot and killed his three little boys. He just took a guilty plea after just a day or two or so prior he and his D talked insanity defense. They are going through some of the details now and it is just heavy so I stopped last night, tried again this morning, but just felt I needed to step away for now. Not the gory details but just what he did, what the stepdaughter saw and more, it's just a lot to take in.

Rob Wood was live on a show re Daybell. A lot of family members are in the chat. I missed the live and haven't even watched the show but started it just to link it, etc. No time right now but I put it in the Daybell thread if interested.

It is supposed to be 79 today. Finally under the very high temps some and tomorrow like 66 degrees! I don't want winter either but man the heat bites at work too.

And so, in this one, now we await the judge's decisions... It wouldn't surprise me if more hearings pop up either. Not that the D thinks ahead. There were only these because of the last scheduled trial and last minute and they already put them off once.

I still think there's been plenty more said in them than we have likely heard but I suppose news covered most of what they figured are the bombshells by now.
I had a quick look at Doermann and just wondered what his motive was and saw the guilty plea. So he is considering insanity plea or not? Any motive in that other than insanity eg. Was it revenge against wife or something?

I heard about a case here in UK recently where the boyfriend was a passenger in a car driven by his GF and they were arguing on the way home from a festival, I think it was. He pulled on the handbrake which spun the car and it crashed. She got out of the wreck and was hit and killed by another vehicle. He lived and is up for murder, I think it is.
 
I had a quick look at Doermann and just wondered what his motive was and saw the guilty plea. So he is considering insanity plea or not? Any motive in that other than insanity eg. Was it revenge against wife or something?

I heard about a case here in UK recently where the boyfriend was a passenger in a car driven by his GF and they were arguing on the way home from a festival, I think it was. He pulled on the handbrake which spun the car and it crashed. She got out of the wreck and was hit and killed by another vehicle. He lived and is up for murder, I think it is.
No, it is over, no insanity plea but just days before they reached this plea they were talking such. Personally I think it was against wife or against even wife and daughter and to beyond hurt them. I don't know and don't know that we ever will. Watch him in court though, this man is FINE. Beyond okay. Imo he is simply pure evil. I know that seems to be making it simple but I truly think that's the case. I do believe it is revenge or having had it with something that was not being done the way he wanted whether the raising of the boys, the wife, or what. That's just a personal thought.

It could also be something so sick and simple as child support, etc.

it is notable to me he never killed the wife and daughter. He had the chance but did not, more than once. The boys were the target. HIS boys.

Wow re your UK cases and then she gets hit by another vehicle?! He should be charged. Not sure about intentional homicide... Is that what he is charged with?
 
No, it is over, no insanity plea but just days before they reached this plea they were talking such. Personally I think it was against wife or against even wife and daughter and to beyond hurt them. I don't know and don't know that we ever will. Watch him in court though, this man is FINE. Beyond okay. Imo he is simply pure evil. I know that seems to be making it simple but I truly think that's the case. I do believe it is revenge or having had it with something that was not being done the way he wanted whether the raising of the boys, the wife, or what. That's just a personal thought.

It could also be something so sick and simple as child support, etc.

it is notable to me he never killed the wife and daughter. He had the chance but did not, more than once. The boys were the target. HIS boys.

Wow re your UK cases and then she gets hit by another vehicle?! He should be charged. Not sure about intentional homicide... Is that what he is charged with?
He only got 7 years and will prob be out in half that. He pled guilty to manslaughter but I think he should have been charged with murder. I found a link.


 
He only got 7 years and will prob be out in half that. He pled guilty to manslaughter but I think he should have been charged with murder. I found a link.


What is a hand brake? I don't think we have such here. We have an emergency brake but that is on the left side near the driver's door and he wouldn't be able to access it without reaching across her entirely. And he'd have had a hard time reaching the floor brake too that shed' have more control over and is under her feet. Sounds dangerous just to have one, what a kid or another person like him pulled on such? But then I'm unsure of what it is.

He deserves more time than this, that's for sure. I don't know about first degree, I'd be torn but second for sure. I wonder why she kept seeing him. All someone like him is going to do if she does is try to get back into her life and into her home again.

He sounds like total temperamental loser. Per her mother and his actions. Also dangerous. I almost have to wonder if there was also abuse if he was this hot tempered and controlling.

So he didn't get hurt? Apparently neither did with anything life threatening as both managed to get out of the car. He should have been HELPING her get to safety but I don't know of course how it all was and who could get out where.

SUCH a shame she got hit after freeing HERSELF from his actions. The fact they survived that crash is probably due to her driving skills and he is the one who survives. So unfair.

Also what is an HGV driver? He should lose any commercial kind of driving license FOREVER. If he can get in a temper and do that, he can get in one while working and do that or worse too. Plow into a home, road rage against another driver, etc. Arsehole.

Off topic we are so I'll stop. Just those comments and had these couple of questions.
 
I don't think he is guilty just be because he was "arrested". There is his bullet, his gun, his confessions, and more.

As to the bloody, also been discussed back when to no end and I just also talked of it not far above here last night. This happens all of the time. You bring something up that I just already addressed just last night... ??

Who is RL? He is a non anything even to the DEFENSE. I am about to forget him for good. His lying also has been covered to no end. NONE of this is new and NONE of it has not previously been discussed over and over and over.

I was never overboard on the cat hair thing and I don't think anything has been shown to be true or untrue with that or anything else not know for certain.

You have opened your mind? When was that? I see no such thing. You are stuck and can look at nothing but the same old things that were HOW long ago and nothing since.

Again the D does not even touch on him or use him. Logic dictates there is a real reason for that. Yet they brought up KK.

You know, there probably is some RL did it fan page somewhere.... In all jest maybe you want to go find it or or already on it.

By the way, we did not know about RA prior, but many times I think someone guilty BEFORE they are ever arrested in many a case LOL and so an arrest does not determine at all what I think.

I'm about to forget forever who RL is. Talk to someone else about it. We've all already been through it ALL.

His dying did not stop them proceeding with him, what are you talking of? They were NOT proceeding with him.*1

The case is moving some and with any luck there will also be trial now in pretty short order. You talk of people going with something because there was an "arrest". Uhm no, there's been plenty since the arrest and now more finally coming out.

You don't open your mind. You have not even talked about new info and if you do, it is with blinders that only try to fit it into your beliefs when not a thing about it fits nor is anyone else trying to do so. But I've said, go ahead, that's your right.*2

RL no longer exists to me and from here on out, that is where I am going. You do nothing but constantly try to drag people back to the same old. Try something new and get stuck on the Os. I wouldn't like that much either but at least it would be a change of pace and at this point might actually seem like a breath of fresh air. I mean I don't want that either but the other thing has been beat to death so bad it should have it's own RL thread for you.

I've tried to yet again nice about it and even ask that you may be at least discuss the new stuff because there are some new "pages" now in this case but you won''t. And again, your right.

Maybe I'l find a new spot or something on this one. OH I already have more than once, taken a break from this and gone elsewhere to Tom, etc. where it is not always the same old.

Tie RA to RL for me please?*3 or RL to the Os for me? Or anything? Remove RA from the trails and bridge? TIE them. Not that the Os were there either but MAKE it WORK. It doesn't and it's ridiculous.

I had a long post (I think, not sure but think I posted it) in the last week or so of why RL lied. He was drinking and driving.*4 THAT too has been covered many, many, many times. He is NOT BG and that is so obvious it is beyond obvious.

The VOICE is RA and WHO sent the girls "down the hill"*5 is most definitely the murderer or involved. By the way my being convinced of that does NOT come from the fact he was "arrested". Arrest has never had a thing to do with who I feel is guilty in cases as many a time I am there BEFORE that. Not here of course because we never knew of RA's existence but my being convinced has to do with a lot more than just his arrest.

This isn't an attack, it is meant to discuss and respond to your such accusations.

I've said before too, MORE THAN ONCE, that I don't always have the popular opinion by a long shot. I STAY out of Read for the most part because mine does not match what most of the rest of you think,. It matches a lot on some of the people but not the reasons for it, etc. HERE your opinion is not the popular one and I don't believe anyone shares it. And you are welcome to it. But there is a different between having a different one and recognizing that and trying to repeatedly stuff yours down everyone else's throat and take the thread constantly to it.

Do I go there and stay and do that? I think it's been at least a month and I think I may have went in and said what I thought of how it turned out or some such and that's it.

When the whole internet of crime things was saturated with her sh*t and one could find little else on, I watched enough, not always by choice and at least found that the whole world doesn't think that way and you can too with RL. I doubt much of it but there are some out there.

You know you could go try to see if Barb McDonald has a channel. I wouldn't know.

And if I EVER get time I am going to ask Linda what she thinks today re I forget his name. Ron somebody... See I'm already starting to erase him for good.

LOL.

I am not positive yet, but I am pretty sure the box cutter thing RA knew but could never have known unless the killer himself.****** P said in these hearings which imo typical news has not covered fully AT ALL that some of these confessions had facts in them only the killer could know*6 and I think that was one example and they have more. They have held very close to the vest but now we are in pretrial hearings and some has to come out so they gave an example.

Again tie now I have totally forgot his name that old dude you think was BG to RA.*7

RA totally panicked over the evidence. And his defense when they finally got around to realizing they messed up leaving him languish*8 then did as well to cover their butts and are trying to get it ALL thrown out.

Blinders. You don't even entertain anything else nor do you take anything new in without trying to fit it to your mold.

Anyhow, this is my first anything on waking up. Not coffeed as this was how it started.

You know despite what anyone thinks of any case and if they differ, going on and on and beating the same old drum with nothing new and repeating the same old things and links does what? Absolutely nothing except irritate.

Maybe there's something new on a what's his name again? Forum but I doubt it. I think you've brought all there is and we have ALL heard it, seen it, etc.

ON the flip side aside from HIS gun, RA appeared to have used a box cutter. OH MY that is NEW. But just ignore that, don't even discuss it. Heck you haven't even tried yet to acknowledge that or tie it to whatever his name is. It's like nothing was ever said about such or anything else in the hearings although you kept waiting for confessions and other things and still are to tie in what's his name.

And you, who go on about people wrongfully convicted, are doing such with him. Take a GOOD LOOK which you will NOT but you are.

I don't think you even read anything here unless it is a response to you and even then you don't fully.

I get little time and yet if I haven't read something try to say so, or looked at a link, etc.

I need to go make some coffee. Should have done so first.

Peace and hugs. And more than one has said it here many, many, many times. I am done with it.

1. Prove it. I can't and neither can you. I'm offering a theory. IMO, they could have gotten enough to build a weak circumstantial case, but after he died there was nothing more they could do. I do wonder if they asked the new owner of the property if they could search the whole thing. Probably not because they had become focused on RA.

2. I skip over your long posts. You yourself said that if people don't like them, they don't have to read them. I don't, and so skip them.

3. IF, RL was bridge guy, then there probably isn't a connection. 15 people are sure he was bridge guy. The FBI believes BG matches the body type of RL.

4. How would they possibly know if he was drinking and driving? They'd have to catch him in the act in order for it to be a problem for him. I'm sure he knew that.

5. I'd like to see where somebody said it was him, definitely, and nobody else. That's not how they testify. I believe they can say it's not inconsistent with RA's voice, and they said RL's was too.

6. The box cutter thing has never been proven. It's a rumor as of now.

7. See #3

8. His defense didn't let him languish. The defense tried over and over and over and over again to get him moved. Judge Gull denied the request several times. She should not be on this case. She is completely prosecution centered.

She did NOT say a black eye. Oh God don't go off with false sh*t now. I said things that would be TYPICAL from a fight. *1 NOT that she said any such thing. And last night you had it a he. A month or so ago you had the college kids at Idaho killed by gun. I think I probably have LESS time than you do but I keep up on the basic facts.

I was talking of things that one may mean by saying someone looked like from a fight, MEANING bloody would be one no? And then saying black eye would be etc. Good Lord. TYPICAL things we could intuit if someone said someone looked like they'd been in a fight to show bloody would be ONE. NO ONE said black eye, I was giving an EXAMPLE.

1. A black eye would be consistent with a fight between a grown man with a gun and a 14 and 13 year old? I don't buy it for a second. That makes the whole "In a fight" suspect as well. If he did have a black eye, then there would have to be another man involved who hit him for some reason.

It was a thought I just had and posted straight away, that's all. It is from my Detective Harshman post (the LE person who reviewed all RA's phone calls and testified last week.) I just thought of this when I re-read that whole paragraph I had copied in to my post .

RA is speaking to 'someone' (probably D)*1 during his confession phase about the crime scene photos being shown at trial and is worried about his family seeing them.

I am wondering if that was the motive for the leak? We don't know MW's motive for leaking them do we?

I am just imagining D brainstorming with MW about these confessions and MW*2 suggesting leaking the photos in advance. Just a theory that occurred to me. We certainly don't know why he leaked them do we and as he has done a plea deal, the motive will not ever come out. And the guy he leaked them to is dead.

GB is equal 3rd or 4th at present. US is 2nd, China still top.

*1. The police and or the prosecution couldn't be listening or recording correspondence between RA and the defense. That is a HUGE violation. Anything they heard would automatically have to be thrown out of court, and the police and prosecution people listening in would be in deep trouble.

*2 This has already been settled by the courts. The defense had nothing to do with the leaking of the evidence.
 
Not reading. Scrolled and rolled.

Because over months on end, I know there won't be a thing in it I haven't heard.

I saw a number one, two and scrolled past. And am going to continue to.

Not going to block because isn't like the rare other crime you might comment on once in awhile I may not want to see and talk about but I will if I have to. But I can scroll and roll. And guess what, I did.

If you want an RL discussion you can certainly try here but you may get more response in a RL did it fan page or something.

I'm talking blind as I never read a word. Just guessing at your content which is usually always the same.

Just saw you in Doerman and responded and that is why I'm not going to block. Because on very rare occasion you talk in Daybell or a few others.

But I'm not going here any longer. Like I said the defense has not even talked Ron Logan. And I think you said it puzzled you...

Uhm yeah.

Again, REALIZE I did not read your post, I scrolled past the minute I glimpsed the first of it and even that couldn't tell you a thing about, just knew, how could one, not it would be the same thing.

But you go for it.

I've said I am done before but I truly am. Everyone's entitled to their thoughts. By the way I don't report you or anything or whine to anyone about you either. I try at times to talk to you about it, and even ask have your opinion but any interest in discussing new stuff? Which you never even respond to.

Done Big Bird. In this case with you. For now anyhow.

And if I takes blocking where I then can't see you in any other thread which I would like to, then going there next.

Again I never read a SINGLE point or the post.
 
@Cousin Dupree

I scrolled and saw where you said the box cutter was rumour and the one about LE not listening to the calls and realised the post was not factual. I am guessing you are ignoring what went on at court last week then? I don't know why you are not reading or noting the hearing details.
 
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What is a hand brake? I don't think we have such here. We have an emergency brake but that is on the left side near the driver's door and he wouldn't be able to access it without reaching across her entirely. And he'd have had a hard time reaching the floor brake too that shed' have more control over and is under her feet. Sounds dangerous just to have one, what a kid or another person like him pulled on such? But then I'm unsure of what it is.

He deserves more time than this, that's for sure. I don't know about first degree, I'd be torn but second for sure. I wonder why she kept seeing him. All someone like him is going to do if she does is try to get back into her life and into her home again.

He sounds like total temperamental loser. Per her mother and his actions. Also dangerous. I almost have to wonder if there was also abuse if he was this hot tempered and controlling.

So he didn't get hurt? Apparently neither did with anything life threatening as both managed to get out of the car. He should have been HELPING her get to safety but I don't know of course how it all was and who could get out where.

SUCH a shame she got hit after freeing HERSELF from his actions. The fact they survived that crash is probably due to her driving skills and he is the one who survives. So unfair.

Also what is an HGV driver? He should lose any commercial kind of driving license FOREVER. If he can get in a temper and do that, he can get in one while working and do that or worse too. Plow into a home, road rage against another driver, etc. Arsehole.

Off topic we are so I'll stop. Just those comments and had these couple of questions.
Our handbrake (parking brake) is in between the front seats behind the gear stick. HGV is Heavy Goods Vehicle - ie a truck driver.
 

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