LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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The whole thing is explained really well in part one and part two of those videos, but I'll try.

Logan asked his cousin to lie about the times he went to the fish store, which he said was 2- 2:30ish. A receipt was found for his time at the fish store being 5:21. This makes the time he asked his cousin to lie for him being around the time the crime happened, and he was actually at the fish store around the time the bodies were discovered. The fish store is approx. a half hour away from where he lives. Pretty damning in my eyes.

Just to be clear, I don't think he acted alone. I believe he was part of a group.
My bolding. So he wasn't home when the bodies were discovered the next day? How does that make him suspect?
 
The whole thing is explained really well in part one and part two of those videos, but I'll try.

Logan asked his cousin to lie about the times he went to the fish store, which he said was 2- 2:30ish. A receipt was found for his time at the fish store being 5:21. This makes the time he asked his cousin to lie for him being around the time the crime happened, and he was actually at the fish store around the time the bodies were discovered. The fish store is approx. a half hour away from where he lives. Pretty damning in my eyes.

Just to be clear, I don't think he acted alone. I believe he was part of a group.
So he was at the fish store at 5.21 pm that is certain and it takes 28 mins to drive to Lafayette from Delphi so he was at the fish store some minutes before the purchase and afterwards, so it is possible he was there 5 - 5.30 pm. Half an hour for travelling each way would extend this time to 4.30 to 6 PM as a minimum. Do we know what time he actually left for Lafayette? We know he was at the waste station around midday so we are to imagine that in between his trip to dump rubbish at midday and travel to Lafayette at 4.30, he walked across the high bridge, from the end furthest from his land, chased the girls across the creek back to his land, murdered them, stole some clothes from them, got covered in blood then somehow walked back to his house and cleaned up in time to leave for Lafayette by 4.30 pm. I don't think it is possible for a 77 year old man to do that. The girls were on the bridge around 2.30pm IIRC from Abbey's Snapchat pic on the bridge, which means Bridge Guy was at the North end around the same time. It seems likely RL drove himself into Lafayette at 2 - 2:30 PM but asked his friend to lie and say he drove him in, because of his driving ban.

ETA the girls were not found till the next day. RL was at the fish store the day the girls went missing. Also, I don't believe we have ever been provided a time of death for the girls either.
 
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So he was at the fish store at 5.21 pm that is certain and it takes 28 mins to drive to Lafayette from Delphi so he was at the fish store some minutes before the purchase and afterwards, so it is possible he was there 5 - 5.30 pm. Half an hour for travelling each way would extend this time to 4.30 to 6 PM as a minimum. Do we know what time he actually left for Lafayette? We know he was at the waste station around midday so we are to imagine that in between his trip to dump rubbish at midday and travel to Lafayette at 4.30, he walked across the high bridge, from the end furthest from his land, chased the girls across the creek back to his land, murdered them, stole some clothes from them, got covered in blood then somehow walked back to his house and cleaned up in time to leave for Lafayette by 4.30 pm. I don't think it is possible for a 77 year old man to do that. The girls were on the bridge around 2.30pm IIRC from Abbey's Snapchat pic on the bridge, which means Bridge Guy was at the North end around the same time. It seems likely RL drove himself into Lafayette at 2 - 2:30 PM but asked his friend to lie and say he drove him in, because of his driving ban.

ETA the girls were not found till the next day. RL was at the fish store the day the girls went missing. Also, I don't believe we have ever been provided a time of death for the girls either.

The timing of when they were found isn't firm, I think. I believe they were found the day before it was announced officially. Again, watch those videos. She put very little opinion in them. More just facts. Again, my memory of stuff like that is hard for me. I can remember history pretty well, but not these kinds of things.
 
The timing of when they were found isn't firm, I think. I believe they were found the day before it was announced officially. Again, watch those videos. She put very little opinion in them. More just facts. Again, my memory of stuff like that is hard for me. I can remember history pretty well, but not these kinds of things.
They were found around midday the next day I believe. Time of death has never been revealed.
 
Why did he lie about the time at the fish store?
I was just going to say this. Even when he supposedly admitted he drove and allegedly to Lafayette his receipt from the fish store if I recall did not match his timeline at all. So which thing was he really lying about....?? That's the thing about liars, then you can't believe anything they say and when they lie to LE and the FBI no less, there is something really wrong and it's pretty hard to believe someone that does that.
 
It is fine if you believe he was involved. I do not happen to think he was, that's all. I don't think comparisons to Hitler, Epstein, Jackson or others would change my mind either. If there was evidence, he would have been declared a POI. He wasn't. They had probable cause for the search, but it drew a blank. I remember it well, especially them taking away his white pick up truck. Absolutely nothing came of it except for LE to discover he drove himself when he should not have done, which violated his probation.
We don't have to agree of course. And I am not trying to change your mind with Hitler, etc. I am simply stating the reasons that it is entirely understandable why some of us still feel he may be viable.

He would not necessarily be named as a POI, they named no one as one in all those years yet the Klines were on the radar way back when too or so it sounds and RA went in as well and we have no idea if he has been on their radar all these years or not or looked into. In many cases they NEVER name a suspect or POI until an actual arrest as they did here with RA. That means nothing at all to me.

Both sides, your belief and ours that he could still relate to all of this, are not based on certainty of any of it. LE shared NOTHING of their investigations of anyone through the years, results of warrants or anything else.

In a nutshell I don't think you can say you are right with 100 percent certainty any more than we can.

What was RA going to do if the girls made a run for it and made it to Logan's doorstep screaming for his help? Everyone talks as if the killer knew the girls were cornered well yeah, to a point, but Logan could have been outside, taking a walk on his land, home outside, etc. Killer coudln't be sure of where Logan was unless maybe he did know.

I think there are more questions if he was not involved than there are if he was quite honestly. That remain all unanswered.

Time will tell I guess. Hopefully we get all those answers.
 
We don't have to agree of course. And I am not trying to change your mind with Hitler, etc. I am simply stating the reasons that it is entirely understandable why some of us still feel he may be viable.

He would not necessarily be named as a POI, they named no one as one in all those years yet the Klines were on the radar way back when too or so it sounds and RA went in as well and we have no idea if he has been on their radar all these years or not or looked into. In many cases they NEVER name a suspect or POI until an actual arrest as they did here with RA. That means nothing at all to me.

Both sides, your belief and ours that he could still relate to all of this, are not based on certainty of any of it. LE shared NOTHING of their investigations of anyone through the years, results of warrants or anything else.

In a nutshell I don't think you can say you are right with 100 percent certainty any more than we can.

What was RA going to do if the girls made a run for it and made it to Logan's doorstep screaming for his help? Everyone talks as if the killer knew the girls were cornered well yeah, to a point, but Logan could have been outside, taking a walk on his land, home outside, etc. Killer coudln't be sure of where Logan was unless maybe he did know.

I think there are more questions if he was not involved than there are if he was quite honestly. That remain all unanswered.

Time will tell I guess. Hopefully we get all those answers.
Good point on the possibly being able to run for help and taking that chance.
 
Good point on the possibly being able to run for help and taking that chance.
Thanks. Yeah I've long thought that no matter WHO the killer turned out to be. And if someone local who never wanted anyone knowing, they were taking a HUGE risk. And these girls knew this area well too, Abby lived right down the road and I am sure knew Logan's home was on one end of it, the homes on the other end, etc.

Like I said we grew up on a trail. On a one mile stretch of a many miled trail, we lived on one end of one mile and I can tell you who lived on the other two ends in both directions AND further. I also knew how to cut through to get to them whether the trail, through the woods or a field.

How could a local killer KNOW Logan would be gone especially if he knew he wasn't to drive??!!! Or how could he be sure he wouldn't be there? To me that is a huge HMMMMM.
 
Also IF there are more involved, the moving him makes more sense to me. Possibly a connection in that way in making the "others" freak out wondering what is going on or similar. Of course, there could be many reasons why they did it, but that puts a different twist on it to me.
 
Also IF there are more involved, the moving him makes more sense to me. Possibly a connection in that way in making the "others" freak out wondering what is going on or similar. Of course, there could be many reasons why they did it, but that puts a different twist on it to me.
Yeah his being in danger made me think of the ring more than local people in the county jail upset with him.
 
Last I heard they had the number they were looking for.

I've never seen a change.org petition do anything despite good intents.

I have sympathy to no end for the family but I think this is probably more a way of showing the public what they want so the public doesn't go bonkers with things or something and that at least some will honor their wishes more than thinking it will affect a court's decision.

It all comes down to whether there is legitimate legal reason(s) to seal it imo although I have seen judges do such when I have seen no legitimate reason but then I'm no expert. In Morphew for instance, there was NO GOOD or legitimate reason by law that I could see.

Like I said no expert but I don't agree with sealing things in general. If the reason is to take down a RING then yes, I have no problem with it. Maybe if the reason is to protect an undercover officer but only to the extent and time needed to do that. I think in most cases that at least redacted versions should be provided and even then, only if legitimate reason to redact and not provide all.

This is a huge case but it isn't the only one. Serial killers have killed more wiithout sealed documents.
 

Hmmm. He does speak. Well sort of.

Saw this earlier but no time to really think on it. Now that I've got a moment my first thought is assuming he is the murderer or part of the murder, and LE sure says he is and had reason for the first arrest with charges ON this case, is don't murderers who worry about getting caught think about what lawyer they would use, how much one would cost, about their family and what may result from their arrest, etc.? I guess not, he likely spent all is time with his sick pedo fantasies, pictures of children and dropbox activity and online activity that way and didn't research atty. fees.

As I typed this, I answered my own question. Of course he didn't think about any of these things. He didn't consider them before he went after these girls nor after.

We don't know if the wife knew anything or not but if the evidence on him is strong, she would be stupid not to get out and honestly, if they have joint assets, she might want to be talking to someone and protecting herself.

He seems to allude to the fact he didn't have a full picture of their financial situation. If that house is still paid off and not refinanced, he should have enough to at least get started with a lawyer so my last thought is perhaps the wife is NOT standing by his side. Of course a bank isn't going to loan on even that if neither is working or both have lost jo
 
I can’t think of any cases where a public defender ended up being the defense attorney in a high profile murder case. I’ll bet you anything some attorney that wants to get their name in the press will take up the gauntlet.
Well in our state and I didn't know it until our case, they don't appoint the standard public defender when it is something like murder. Delphi is so small if Indiana is similar they will fund him an attorney who has some murder charge experience. They do it I was told (in our state0 so that it can't be said he didn't have adequate representation for the type of charges. They can't appoint a PD who has mostly handled traffic, domestic, assault, drug, etc. and has not dealt with murder charges. They are still considered a state appointed attorney/public defender but it just isn't the full time one for the county but a private attorney the state pays as a public defender in such a case if I understood it correctly.

I don't know about the pro bono thing in this one with high profile. I mean there may be some scum out there willing to do it but the cases some take there is a known name or still some assets or celebrity... And one like this...? I don't know. I think even RA may have thought he is some famous big killer and more than one atty would try to contact him to represent him free, he found out it isn't so and hence this letter....
 
Ghislaine Maxwell is a good example. She and her brother and husband seemed to guarantee and lie that the law firm would be paid and got them to take it on and now they aren't being paid and she was notoriously famous AND connected and no great private attorney took it on for FREE. My guess is because they are so hated like RA is here AND because we are talking about pedophilia or abuse of minors in very likely a sexual manner. And in this case the murder of same.
 

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