LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
I even read the link. Not a hint as to what it is about. I do not agree with the secrecy in this case and if there ever was a real reason for it, I forget. Seems to me it was in the beginning because investigation was still ongoing and it could jeopardize.

Only if one reads it does one see on Tuesday she denied two more Franks hearing requests....

Also says not for the first time Gull disagrees the search warrant did not give enough to expect results to be found and reasons for such.

Not sure why a "status" hearing needs to be closed for part and no details are given for either part but status. Status hearings are generally just to see how all is going, if any needs to be addressed, and so on, if anything came up that needs to be, has all been, and so on...

Could it be a deal as Tresir keeps thinking may happens and she wants it hammered out before the public is allowed?

I don't see it but who knows...

And so we have a status hearing apparently before decisions on motions have been given...
 
I was talking the status hearing scheduled. I had not read the next post yet so to be clear although believe it was already mentioned in that link that she denied such.
 
From the Fox59 link posted by @Imamazed

"On Tuesday, Gull also denied two more attempts by the defense requesting Frank hearings. The defense has repeatedly filed motions seeking to throw out evidence seized during a search of Allen’s home by claiming police weren’t completely truthful when filing for a search warrant.

Gull disagreed, not for the first time, and said the search warrant established reasonable belief that evidence could be found in Allen’s home and vehicle and that police did not contain false statements or omit statutes with reckless disregard."

So yes, the Franks hearings have been denied as well as the motion to throw out the search warrant. I guess the status hearing on the 23rd must be to recap on any remaining issues or motions, presumably.
 
Last edited:
From the Fox59 link posted by @Imamazed

"On Tuesday, Gull also denied two more attempts by the defense requesting Frank hearings. The defense has repeatedly filed motions seeking to throw out evidence seized during a search of Allen’s home by claiming police weren’t completely truthful when filing for a search warrant.

Gull disagreed, not for the first time, and said the search warrant established reasonable belief that evidence could be found in Allen’s home and vehicle and that police did not contain false statements or omit statutes with reckless disregard."

So yes, the Franks hearings have been denied as well as the motion to throw out the search warrant. I guess the status hearing on the 23rd must be to recap on any remaining issues or motions, presumably.
I read this and agree. I never saw enough or any basis in the things the D tried to get this thrown out. And well the Franks motions speak for themselves and imo they don't speak. They are a mess of a bunch of stuff just thrown in for a blizzard effect, with little real meat to them.

Not sure why no former opinion or order yet but such apparently have been denied.

Good idea to clip it and bring it forward. It was quite a ways down in the article. I never though to do so but did mention such.
 
This is a great article from the Sun. It is based on The Murder Sheet couple reporting, as they attended the whole three days. I won't copy and paste as it is long and graphic in places but they conclude that Allen's defence are not providing an adequate defence and that they should be working on a plea deal for him. It is very revealing in places, including that he could be faking his physchosis but his confessions are very real.

Have a good read.

A week to go until the status conference on the 23rd.

 
This is a great article from the Sun. It is based on The Murder Sheet couple reporting, as they attended the whole three days. I won't copy and paste as it is long and graphic in places but they conclude that Allen's defence are not providing an adequate defence and that they should be working on a plea deal for him. It is very revealing in places, including that he could be faking his physchosis but his confessions are very real.

Have a good read.

A week to go until the status conference on the 23rd.

Do you have any ideas on when the prosecutor offered a plea deal?
 
This is a great article from the Sun. It is based on The Murder Sheet couple reporting, as they attended the whole three days. I won't copy and paste as it is long and graphic in places but they conclude that Allen's defence are not providing an adequate defence and that they should be working on a plea deal for him. It is very revealing in places, including that he could be faking his physchosis but his confessions are very real.

Have a good read.

A week to go until the status conference on the 23rd.

I mean, the guy's defense about a "crazy satanic cult" killing the girls is just pure bonkers. Everything points to him and he knows it. That's why he's in the state he is currently. He's trapped in a cell and perhaps, he knows now how Libby and Abby felt when he had cornered them. He's going to get real screwed up in prison. Even the most violent inmates don't like cellmates who did what he did..
 
This is a great article from the Sun. It is based on The Murder Sheet couple reporting, as they attended the whole three days. I won't copy and paste as it is long and graphic in places but they conclude that Allen's defence are not providing an adequate defence and that they should be working on a plea deal for him. It is very revealing in places, including that he could be faking his physchosis but his confessions are very real.

Have a good read.

A week to go until the status conference on the 23rd.

Haven't read yet but that pretty much mirrors my opinion and the psych doctor even said as much. I look at the timing of EVERYTHING and the things he did are fake to me. I have long wanted to have enough time to do a timeline to show what I mean. The timing of his problems ARE always convenient and needed. Not the first person to pull such a by a long shot.

I also have long said I wouldn't wish these attorneys on anyone, even him.

He disgusts me and it is contrary feeling to feel sorry for a defendant in that respect. But they are AWFUL. And trying to cover their own butts by blaming everyone but themselves.

I feel SO sorry for the girls' families. Just imagine! The tragedies they already have had, and can't change, no arrest for years, and finally there is one and the wheels of justice start trurning and a need for that and then the case turns into this kind of a messed up nightmare. That never ends. Yet they need to stay mostly silent. My GOD. I know how that was on a three year basis and only a four to six months basis before an arrest. I can't even imagine it multplied by all this. Such alone about killed all of us.

AND the public nature of it all.

I'm in danger of sidetracking.

Anyhow I will give it a read.

I was not impressed with the coverage of the hearings WHATSOEVER. I sure hope trial is different.

And WHERE are those decisions? And what the heck is going on with this status hearing? And part secret. Everyone seems to be talking deals or that they should try to get one. Yeah, they should because they messed all up and don't have a defense. Idiots. IMHO.

I don't know why the state would give him one or the families less than two life sentences though with no chance of parole. Both girls deserve that. And both families. That is my sticking point on the thought of any deal.

If that would happen, all still needs to come out. For the families and for the public .

it was a hard watch, a very hard watch but such just happened in Doerman. He pled guilty but at the final and sentencing, what needed to be said and what happened was read into the record. It was part of it. What he did, what everyone went through, how mom and sister tried to stop and save each and every child.

You can't make a deal and leave all hanging as to what the evidence is and what happened imo. That needs to be part of such.

It was a very hard watch and I had to stop and take I forget a week or more before I could go back to the last ten minutes of it I think it was.

Not sure if you are familiar with it but a man who killed his three little boys, all in front of mom and sister, one after the other.

Again, I am in danger of sidetracking.

Anyhow I am going to read this. Just what you've said matches what I have always thought. Faked. Confessions real. Then faked when knew had to cover. Defense was never there for him. Just dumped a bunch of evidence on him. Timing, timing, timing of every bit of it. If I had a life I'd lay it out and show it. I sure have seen it always, just no time to show it or explain it adequately.

I have to admit a deal instead of finally seeing this tried would feel a letdown. And that's why like in Doerman if such happens, all needs to still be laid out and told. For the families. For all.

I suspect in that one it was all part of the wife's wants of things wanted on the record and known. I actually thought she may have been on his side and a woman who didn't divorce him but she had. A hard watch but she got what was necessary on the record and I suspect it was part of the deal and her wishes.

I don't see Abby and Libby's families feeling any differently if such were to be agreed to. Not that they have the say, but smart prosecutors go with the family's wishes as to deal or no deal. it isn't up to them, it is up to the State and ultimately the judge but again, smart ones consider the famiies' wishes.

Okay. Going to stop. Long but did not sidetrack much.

I am waiting for decisions and trial. If some deal happens, they had better tell all is all I have to say really. Not sure why people are talking it other than of course I agree the D would be smart to try for one because they don't have sh*t and imo have done nothing but screw up and are incompetent.

JMO.
 
Do you have any ideas on when the prosecutor offered a plea deal?
AFAIK the prosecutor believes he can get a conviction, especially based on all the confessions and detail in them. I don't believe RA has been offered a deal. The MS are suggesting it is time for the D to consider pursuing one though.

The D have nothing if the O theory is thrown out, which appears to be what has happened.
 
AFAIK the prosecutor believes he can get a conviction, especially based on all the confessions and detail in them. I don't believe RA has been offered a deal. The MS are suggesting it is time for the D to consider pursuing one though.

The D have nothing if the O theory is thrown out, which appears to be what has happened.
Scott Reisch said the same as you recall. And he said as much before we knew Gull it seems had nixed the O defense. His tune even changed re things because it was not how he had been talking in his videos just prior.

I too am doubtful he's been offered any please excepti maybe dismissing more minor charges. Are there any minor ones, I can't recall?

The P has been nothing but acting as if they have a very strong case and are more than prepared for trial. In fact after the last delay I think it was they were frustrated with it and said THEY were ready to proceed and had been.

I also don't know how a plea would be discussed because it was said the D won't even talk to the P. In most cases, and it is actually a hard thing to see and one wonders about when you are a victim's family, the P and D are cordial as is the judge to both sides. USUALLY. Respectful. Work together on dates and things like that.

One time after one of our hearings ended, my sister and I were talking a bit and while all the others had, we had not left the courtroom yet. The defense atty was still at his table and the judge was still on the bench writing some notes or some such and all of a sudden the D attorney started making small talk and chit chat with the judge. And the judge was chatty back. it bothered us to no end and the fact they were alone but for us (maybe the clerk can't recall). I was not unaware such can go on but not like I see it every day nor ever in a murder case had I. We couldn't stand the man of course. The D atty. It bothered me even though I knew it was not unheard of. It leaves you thinking the D is schmoozing the judge, kissing some butt, to get some favor in the case... It's hard to see.

However,, my point is it is not a typical. But the D here has went after the judge and the P personally. While neither way should affect anything, ever, it certainly is not the normal way of things. Again it is hard to understand but in the courtroom they combat and strongly so for their side, but once out, they are civil and even working on things they should together I.e. dates, discovery and so forth.

MOST do anyhow.

But then most cases aren't some big public interest show either where one can even get famous. Or notorious. As the case may be.

All know my opinion on that and the reasons I feel for some of what goes on by the D or has went on.

RA really lost out because he will likely lose the one appeal he may have had a real chance at, and that's ineffective counsel. BUT Gull GAVE him every chance to see what had went on, what was thought and he made an informed decision to keep them despite it all.

The two covered their own butts for failing ahim from the start nd that's what they've been doing ever since imo.
 
AFAIK the prosecutor believes he can get a conviction, especially based on all the confessions and detail in them. I don't believe RA has been offered a deal. The MS are suggesting it is time for the D to consider pursuing one though.

The D have nothing if the O theory is thrown out, which appears to be what has happened.
Well there are hoops to jump through in plea deals. I'm not sure if Judge Gull would allow it, or if Abby and Libby's families would approve, either.
 
Judge can nix one even made. Most don't, but they have that authority.

I think the families would be against anything less than LWOP for two murders, however, I will say it is hard, because you are not ever guaranteed a conviction, so it feels like gambling with something that means so much to you, very stressful. And both families could disagree as well. And disagreement can even be within one's own family. We never had that, we all wanted it seen through but it happens.

And I just don't see the P doing it. Maybe if it were two LWOPs and that's it.

I think the recent talk is the tide turning on the leak type of people who used to push a defense narrative and just saying in THEIR shoes, that is what they'd better be doing is trying to get him a deal because it is the best hope they have/he has.

And we could be wrong and maybe the families would go for it although I highly doubt it. Not anything lighter than LWOP anyhow. Jmo.
 
I mean, the guy's defense about a "crazy satanic cult" killing the girls is just pure bonkers. Everything points to him and he knows it. That's why he's in the state he is currently. He's trapped in a cell and perhaps, he knows now how Libby and Abby felt when he had cornered them. He's going to get real screwed up in prison. Even the most violent inmates don't like cellmates who did what he did..
He confessed to his family multiple times and wants their forgiveness but they shunned him. Even the warden didn't want to hear his confessions. In the end he shouted it out for all to hear.

They have all failed him really IMO. Get him to plead guilty and he will feel much better immediately.
 
Last edited:
I mean, the guy's defense about a "crazy satanic cult" killing the girls is just pure bonkers. Everything points to him and he knows it. That's why he's in the state he is currently. He's trapped in a cell and perhaps, he knows now how Libby and Abby felt when he had cornered them. He's going to get real screwed up in prison. Even the most violent inmates don't like cellmates who did what he did..
We agree on this one.

I just hope where he is now they truly can keep him safe. There'd be nothing worse than him offing self or being offed and justice long awaited denied.

Tresir is right. His family did not want to hear it, they couldn't face it, they live in denial. With his mom AND wife like that, it would seem to indicate why they couldn't see what was right under their noses or they DID and stuffed it down in denial.

And sometimes it is what is not said. i've never heard one word about any phone calls to adult daughter. And speculation is she and her husband know otherwise or will be witnesses for the prosecution...

In fact, now that I think about it, it just hits me that this could be one part of big things that bothered him in the discovery evidence. And others. To where he felt doomed and caught out, perhaps by his own kid. Speculating of course. But we can count on each was talked to and interviewed.

I also have no problem believing the wife lied for him, also speculated out there.

We MAY get to find out one day soon.
 
This is a great article from the Sun. It is based on The Murder Sheet couple reporting, as they attended the whole three days. I won't copy and paste as it is long and graphic in places but they conclude that Allen's defence are not providing an adequate defence and that they should be working on a plea deal for him. It is very revealing in places, including that he could be faking his physchosis but his confessions are very real.

Have a good read.

A week to go until the status conference on the 23rd.

Going to read now before time does not allow. Almost forgot already!
 
Well there are hoops to jump through in plea deals. I'm not sure if Judge Gull would allow it, or if Abby and Libby's families would approve, either.
i can only see him pleading guilty now. I cannot see how somebody who has confessed more than 60 times to all and sundry could possibly do anything else. No plea deal.
 
i can only see him pleading guilty now. I cannot see how somebody who has confessed more than 60 times to all and sundry could possibly do anything else. No plea deal.
Similar here. Although confessions have not been ruled on yet have they? But he doesn't want all heard by all and if he still feels that way, then yeah, he should just plead guilty and avoid trial.

Not that it will be live anyhow though.

I just hope he doesn't off himself or IS offed.

I had real reasons for thinking they needed to keep him secure. It wasn't for punishment's sake.

The secret not public part of this status hearing makes one wonder. I don't know anyone else's thoughts but yes, a plea deal if even viable I wonder about for one. Or it is to discuss things not wanting heard other than such.

I watched someone the other night who I have never watched and was not sold on it but he talked of how there is something in this case that cannot be talked of to this day and is sealed. He had various thoughts and KK was one of them again. We do have to admit there seems to have been something here from the beginning although sealing is becoming far more common for no good reason, as well as gag orders and so forth.

Not sure what to think. I have never dismissed a KK connection. I also don't dismiss maybe protection of a family witness (daughter?) although that would be harder to justify imo but again, it is becoming more common and I don't agree with it generally, to seal and to gag. Even sometimes to protect too far and investigation, it makes for far more speculation.

Anyhow, whatever comes about, the truth needs to be out on everything but for if there is something to that, or like pedo ring. I don't lean that way but it has ALL been very odd throughout including the need for a judge to feel he needed to protect self and family, stepping down basically and so much more.

It is SO past time for this to be tried.

And Gull needs to get all the decisions issued. We don't need the D whining they didn't know in enough time before trial and we all know they should have been preparing for any decision and defense all along, but imo they will whine. And very possibly try for another delay due to such.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,354
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom