LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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So again Tom seems to think the decision will come by tomorrow on the motion in limine. That other YTer I watched figured it would be I a day or two too, that was days ago. I see why now, because the 30 days is about up.

If anyone wants to keep their eye out for it , please do and inform. Tom said if it comes he will do a community post and a show after that in the evening but I won't be able to watch for such or look for it until after work.

HOWEVER, Gull could do something like not release it until 11 p.m. so that it hardly hits news until the next day. Not that news is on top of a thing anyhow lol.
 
I haven't seen the decision yet but saw this from Tom, which is a spreadsheet breakdown of all the costs so far.


Thanks for checking.

Haven't looked at spreadsheet yet but he covered a lot of costs in his show, but I don't recall he'd done a spreadsheet yet but had a lot laid out on the screen.

People were very curious as to the genealogy testing or whatever it was for $20K. Haven't looked at your attachment yet.

Work was insanely busy today. I am WIPED. It went fast because so busy but on the other hand my feet and back feel like they worked 20 hours. We have been busy through the holiday weekend more so than usual, quite busy, but today was nuts. A Tuesday of all days after the holiday weekend. The last three weeks have been harder than normal and although always ready man am I ready to get the last shift done tomorrow and it's another early one. Thank God I've never been given 5 a.m.s 7 has always been my earliest and that's hard. A friend of mine gets a ton of 5 a.m.s. She isn't a fan however you do get done by 2 or so then which is the nice part but then you might have a night shift.

Anyhow, haven't looked at much yet, not sure what all I'll get to. I will see if Tom did any what do you call them, posts on his community page I think it was. He said he would if news or gogn to do a show on news tonight. I don't know that they are right about this deadline for Gull. Someone in his chat said that they thought the time limit was waived when both sides agreed to wait, and wait on depositions but I think that person was wrong because supposedly the defense was asked to wait on depositions until a decision and they refused the last I heard.

IF it is a strict deadline for her, I suspect it will be released late tonight if it is anything she has to really worry about. I mean I don't know the details on it, did she just say she'd make a decision in about 30 days, if so, that's hardly anything she has to be perfect on. I think they probably submitted additional arguments or some such she took under advisement and then is to rule. My guess.

I do think she should get it out of the way before too much more time passes.
 
Just checked, yeah, no word from him which means nothing is out yet.

I did see the same as you found, the spreadsheet of expenses he did put out.

I will probably be up til close to midnight stupidly if I make it, I will try to check before bed just in a general refresh of YT and Google maybe. That's what happened with the one I found the other day when it was only that YTer i'd never encountered who had the news on it. The one you asked for the name of. I THINK she probably checks too quite often... MOre than TOm perhaps because she is the only one who at least was out with it... My point is if something gets filed late tonight, she may be one still looking for it and he may as well as he tended to believe it would be out today...
 
SHE (that YTer) thought it would be out before the holiday weekend. Both I believe are going by the 30 day thing or whatever it was....
 
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I was wiped and did not have much time last night and ended up falling asleep long before midnight, maybe 10:30? So haven't done a recheck yet and less time than normal this morning.

I wasn't all that interested in the cost thing but did start watching it and only six minutes plus so hope to finish this morning.

$70K for a PODIUM? Now Tom's own columns do not say that was what such was for but he said it was...

For a judge's bench I could understand but I take podium to mean where the attorneys stand to question or give arguments...

Tom has such quirks lol, it's part of what I fall for I think... He gets so interested in things and like here does a spreadsheet that most probably wouldn't, and it's like his summaries too of the legal docs after reading them all, he does power point or whatever. VERY organized. That's why I count on him for all I would never have time for, like reading all and then summarizing the important parts.

Arguably, the podium would not be only a Delphi expense but will be used for all cases for years to come but the case may have caused such. Someone said in his live why would they care how fancy the podium unless she plans on it being seen, having cameras... One can hope I guess but seems doubtful at this point...

I haven't looked this morning, just got up and sitting here in the dark as to if anything was issued last night for a decision. I am on way less time than I like to have before work. I like at least three if not four hours and I don't have that today., not even close. It is not ideal and it's hard to want to get ready when it seems like it isn't day time yet. This winter is going to be very hard imo. I did not used to get a lot of early morns in my schedule. I don't know how I am going to get moving here in short order as I am totally wiped and it is pitch black outside. I was thinking I had a half hour longer than I now realize I do... Going to be by the seat of my pants today to get there by 7. On top of it, yesterday I started on the half hour point, 7:30, that is the 7 point and that throws me for a loop sometimes. I am used to leaving at exactly how many minutes past the hour and then I'll get that half hour mark. Off topic but the changing shifts always all over the place is one of the hardest things about this job. It's much easier to come home in dark than go to work in dark and get ready in dark one is already up so easy the other way. Closing isn't always fun but going in at 9 even or 10, noon, even 2 sometimes is more my schedule. I always have been a night owl and that's never changed and one then gets ready in daylight.

Anyhow, Gull needs to get this decision rendered. We will be closing in before long on a month before trial. If per normal practice the D is going to say they did't have enough time realizing they need another defense if can't use any third party, even though they should have been preparing for either eventuality ALL ALONG, we can be assured they will whine, complain or appeal... If true to form anyhow...

She needs to MAKE this decision already!!!
 
I guess I had better turn a light on long before I am normally ready to. I'd rather see the natural light of day first. The older I get I hate artificial light and expecting the body to think it is "daytime" and time to move when it is not. Sigh...
 
Well in a quick but hardly thorough search both on YT and Google, I see no news out late last night or anything...
 
You know in watching this still am but time is going by fast here for me, getting ready mostly rather than watching, the D, B & R can quit whining. It is not like they are not getting paid, they certainly are, and for questionable representation if you ask me. Of course they haven't been reimbursed that ridiculous amount to go get some old FB post on a trip or whatever it was... And we also know they when requesting reimbursement never document adequately but apparently at times they finally have and have been paid a fair amount and for services, experts, etc.

Several amounts are for straight attorney fees which goes to them and I'd argue they haven't for the most part done sh*t for RA anyhow through most of their time, if not all. They couldn't even go see the man.

So for anyone who might think I am anti a fair D, etc., I actually again feel sorry for RA in the attorneys he has had, and his family. But he and they chose to stick there...
 
And that's without all the incidentals, experts, transcription services and a ton more paid separately.
 
Man is it getting light later in the morn and dark earlier at night already. Not sure I won't be leaving in the dark about an hour from now, pitch dark yet.
 
Wow and I would add there is a column for both Rozzi and Baldwin. It is not like they can't afford to operate at their less than stellar level or survive AND all the other sh*t paid on top of it. Havent' hit the P side yet but sure that will be over top probably but just saying on the D for what they have tried to make it sound like...

In fact, I'd have to argue paying any transcription services for them because either their dictation is rife with errors or the transcription service is not intelligent enough to discern and fix and submit to them for edit. Assuming that's the transcription meant, and not court transcription of hearings, docs, etc.

I'm actually a bit surprised. Public defenders here get paid more than I'd have thought. You know for crappy attorneys, these look like some good wages to me...

I know that's sarcastic and all won't agree but serously the little they've done throughout and then when they finally got started it was mostly just ridiculous wandering filings that showed they hadn't done sh*t nor reviewed much and again never visited their client and so forth, I'd say they have been very well paid for what I consider their representation to be worth to date...

Ya know, if there was a defendant who had money or his family did and wanted to pay a good private criminal defense attorney charged with murder, I can't see one person or why they'd gravitate to these two so that considered, this is good pay for them...

And my time is fast going by here. Sitting down to a peanut butter toasted bagel for a moment. No time for the homemade egg mcmuffin thing. Man am I glad this is the last day of my work week. I wish I could fast forward it to the end of the day.
 

DELPHI, Ind. ― Jurors will not hear Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's defense that Libby German and Abby Williams were ritually sacrificed by a group of Odinists, Special Judge Frances Gull ruled Wednesday.

In a 136-page memorandum, Allen's defense alleged in September 2023 that worshipers of the pre-Christian Norse religion of Odin killed the teenagers on Feb. 13, 2017, as a ritual sacrifice. But jurors won't hear the defense case built around this theory. They also will not hear the names of suspected Odinists, who Allen's defense allege likely killed the teens.

Gull ruled that Allen's defense team did not produce admissible evidence that linked Odinism or specific suspected Odinists to the killings.

Special tip lines have been set up to take information in the deaths of Libby German and Abby Williams, who were killed while hiking the Delphi Historic Trails on Feb. 13, 2017.

Special tip lines have been set up to take information in the deaths of Libby German and Abby Williams, who were killed while hiking the … Show more
JOHN TERHUNE/JOURNAL & COURIER
The defense memo states the girls were killed with a knife and their bodies were laid out in a specific way that might indicate an occult sacrifice. Libby's blood was used to write a letter on a tree where the girls were found. Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes, and tree branches were used to form Germanic letters associated with Odin, according to the defense memorandum.

"The Court will not permit the evidence submitted by the defense in support of their arguments regarding third-party perpetrators in the trial of this cause as the probative value of such evidence is greatly outweighed by confusion of the issues and its potential to mislead the jury," Gull wrote in her order published Wednesday.

More: Jurors will hear Delphi murder suspect's statements allegedly admitting to the killings

Gull did not close the door entirely on Allen's defense, noting the court will allow Allen's attorneys to argue during trial why the evidence should be admitted. These "offers of proof" are done outside of the presence of jurors.

Wednesday's ruling comes on the heels of last week's ruling in which Gull ruled that Allen's statements admitting to the killings will be allowed.

This means that the defense's theory of Libby and Abby's killings will not be presented to jurors, and dozens of Allen's admissions to the killings made while in isolation at a maximum-security Indiana prison will be admitted into evidence.

Allen's trial begins in roughly six weeks with jury selection in Fort Wayne in Allen County. After a jury is selected and sequestered, the trial will move to Delphi. The trial is scheduled to run through Nov. 15.

Police investigated the killings for nearly six years until Oct. 26, 2022, when they arrested Allen after linking an unfired bullet found at the scene to Allen's sidearm found in his house during a search.

Allen's defense has tried for nearly two years to suppress the search warrant that allowed police to confiscate Allen's pistol.

Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.

7 hours ago
 

DELPHI, Ind. ― Jurors will not hear Delphi murder suspect Richard Allen's defense that Libby German and Abby Williams were ritually sacrificed by a group of Odinists, Special Judge Frances Gull ruled Wednesday.

In a 136-page memorandum, Allen's defense alleged in September 2023 that worshipers of the pre-Christian Norse religion of Odin killed the teenagers on Feb. 13, 2017, as a ritual sacrifice. But jurors won't hear the defense case built around this theory. They also will not hear the names of suspected Odinists, who Allen's defense allege likely killed the teens.

Gull ruled that Allen's defense team did not produce admissible evidence that linked Odinism or specific suspected Odinists to the killings.

Special tip lines have been set up to take information in the deaths of Libby German and Abby Williams, who were killed while hiking the Delphi Historic Trails on Feb. 13, 2017.

Special tip lines have been set up to take information in the deaths of Libby German and Abby Williams, who were killed while hiking the … Show more
JOHN TERHUNE/JOURNAL & COURIER
The defense memo states the girls were killed with a knife and their bodies were laid out in a specific way that might indicate an occult sacrifice. Libby's blood was used to write a letter on a tree where the girls were found. Abby was dressed in Libby's clothes, and tree branches were used to form Germanic letters associated with Odin, according to the defense memorandum.

"The Court will not permit the evidence submitted by the defense in support of their arguments regarding third-party perpetrators in the trial of this cause as the probative value of such evidence is greatly outweighed by confusion of the issues and its potential to mislead the jury," Gull wrote in her order published Wednesday.

More: Jurors will hear Delphi murder suspect's statements allegedly admitting to the killings

Gull did not close the door entirely on Allen's defense, noting the court will allow Allen's attorneys to argue during trial why the evidence should be admitted. These "offers of proof" are done outside of the presence of jurors.

Wednesday's ruling comes on the heels of last week's ruling in which Gull ruled that Allen's statements admitting to the killings will be allowed.

This means that the defense's theory of Libby and Abby's killings will not be presented to jurors, and dozens of Allen's admissions to the killings made while in isolation at a maximum-security Indiana prison will be admitted into evidence.

Allen's trial begins in roughly six weeks with jury selection in Fort Wayne in Allen County. After a jury is selected and sequestered, the trial will move to Delphi. The trial is scheduled to run through Nov. 15.

Police investigated the killings for nearly six years until Oct. 26, 2022, when they arrested Allen after linking an unfired bullet found at the scene to Allen's sidearm found in his house during a search.

Allen's defense has tried for nearly two years to suppress the search warrant that allowed police to confiscate Allen's pistol.

Reach Ron Wilkins at rwilkins@jconline.com. Follow on Twitter: @RonWilkins2.

7 hours ago
The one I read wasn't worded like this. This sounds like they can continue to argue this at trial, the way I read it in another article is IF they have proof, they can argue it come in (not what they have already shown but REAL proof, new stuff in other words, I'd say). That's how I took it. This one is worded much differently in that respect. She's already ruled on the things they submitted, argued, stated, etc. with this ruling.

Well he has no defense and it is pretty apparent he has no alibi or they'd have filed it and asked for dismissal due to alibi. This trial shouldn't take four weeks now. They are going to have to poke holes in the prosecution case and try to argue they've not proven their case. What else do they have? And I don't think they'll be successful with that, there is plenty of evidence and now a ton of confessions.

They can't fix now but they would have been wise to counsel their client in the first days to keep his mouth shut as most defense attorneys do and consider part of their job.

This is the right decision, Scott Reisch has been saying these very same things. Per the laws there has to be more than what they showed which was no placement of any of the Os there.

I think all her decisons were the right ones and not out of bias but because they didn't prove reasons for anything they requested. I do disagree in that I would not have moved RA but she did give them that one. I do not believe in his safety and let's hope they can keep him alive for the next two months.

I don't know if I knew the jury was to be sequestered. I knew they were coming from Allen County but did not know of the sequestering I don't think. That's a LONG time for them IF it goes four weeks. I just don't see how it can without the defense purposely drawing it out with irrelevant and repeat stuff. All O experts can now go and be dismissed. The O guys won't be among the witnesses for trial subpoenaed. I imagine they cannot bring in Click, etc. either unless they can somehow in around about way question say the sheriff asking if others were ever looked at in the invstigation... And NM is going to want to ensure he does not bring up Os accidentally or anything or would that open the door? I doubt he would, he'lll be glad to have the outlandish theory gone, but I mean don't slip.

Well, that does it now here comes trial... Short of them desperately attempting more motions, etc. or a stall tactic by going back to the ISC but I wouldn't but then I'm not them and they certainly would, to no avail... Who knows...

Not a good day for them or for RA so I sure hope they have a close eye on him.

Tom should be on tonight since the news is out and I'm actually done with work, home and two days off so I can actually catch a LIVE once!!! :cheering: :cheering:
 
She's not giving the defense a sporting chance. I've heard she does this with all defendants. She's prosecution's best friend.

The fact that one guy asked if his DNA would show up if he spit on one of the corpses should be enough to cast doubt on a one man show. This judge sucks.
 
She's not giving the defense a sporting chance. I've heard she does this with all defendants. She's prosecution's best friend.

The fact that one guy asked if his DNA would show up if he spit on one of the corpses should be enough to cast doubt on a one man show. This judge sucks.
Coming from a guy with changing stories and mental disabilities and who along with the others they can't place there. It is hearsay, rumor, unreliable stuff. The law says it needs to be far more than that.

They'd have been far better off leaving the ridiculous O sh*t alone, that was their over the top ridiculous fanciful saga of imaginary things filings and focusing on KK or RL. I suspect there are reasons they didn't BUT they'd have had a fighting chance perhaps. RL I think they couldn't per evidence just as they couldn't with BH who was at work, the O.

But KK actually had a plan or attempted one to meet Libby at the very same place.

There isn't much with RL other than his lie and while I think the phone ping makes perfect sense, they actually COULD provide a REAL something... The Os there is NOTHING. And they didn't purse the others.

Put some blame on the D for goodness sakes. It is like the confessions, they asked for a blanket blocking of over 100 of various types, times, to who, how, etc. That is NOT a good attorney. These guys are imo worthless attorneys. In the O filing that ridiculous imaginary, "what if" scenario that half the idiots thought was fact was out of line to put in the FM as was the unedited number of pages and evidence dump and attachments. Then the whole leak. These are the two that whined that Gull didn't call them a name as she did NM.

I don't know who you listen to or what you head but listen to Reisch who WAS initially one way about it for like one show and THEN he was up on the case law and law on third party defense and looked at what they had and ever since has said they have not provided any link or real evidence to get the O defense and it should be denied. And he IS a defense attorney.

The whole O thing too, it was one big blanket, oh it['s guards in the prison but they didn't do it, it's these Os out there who did it but just giving people I guess something to connect dots on some big O thing where they all know each other and helped each other.

This isn't COURT stuff, it isn't stuff you put to a judge. It's juvenile b.s. for filings. Go get some real evidence, file a professional filing and quit trying to make smoke from mirrors.

Leakers, suicides, can't bring anything solid or do it right, etc.

And RA really wrecked his good chances of claiming ineffective counsel later as did his family. Because they are ineffective. And he chose them knowing all about everything.

Gull cites the basis for every decision.

They have failed to merit what they ask for.

Put some blame on them.

And it isn't always nice when you feel rumor and such matters or some drawing from back WHEN and a guy's comments who has said various things and has disabilities, a judge ignores BUT judges ignore the chaff and look at facts and evidence, like it or not, and there isn't sh*t.

I'm so certain of it I will predict now they will never win on appeal a single one of these decisions from these motions hearings and these decisions before trial, either now or after.

Just my opinion though. And what right do they have to turn it into a circus calling in men that could not have been there and naming them as they already have? WITH NO EVIDENCE?
 
Well sh*t and shine-ola. Darn it. Tom did his live like seven hours ago. During the day! Hmph. if it had come yesterday it was to be at night. Today he must have been free to do one the minute he knew the news. Oh well. I am used to watching them not live. I was really hoping to catch a live tonight though.
 
So haven't watched more than a couple of minutes yet and Tom is reading it for the first too as he does his live probably right after hearing about it. Unlike the articles, he reads the decision and shows it all. As legal filings and judge's decisons, orders, etc. should be unless necessary to go a bit more, to the point, the why, a page or two, and succinct and the reason by law.

Linking. If haven't read the actual short decision, only takes a minute or two and he has covered that.



You know maybe things can be a bit whatever in the legal process where it is too buttoned to law and nothing more taken into account, but I also don't want to see total buffoons, fantasies creating blizzards, leaking and you name it trying to change it all by force with public falling for such and our process made into nothing but smoke and mirrors and b.s a judge is force to entertain. They take away the fluff and look at the facts and the law as they should. Total made up conspiracies and you name it.

NOW if they could place a single one of these men there, that would be different. It is all just b.s. and bluster.

Not one bit of something real. And cops like Click etc.? That is just the change in the b.s. going on and boy could I go sideways on that and how they fall for such crap. There may be some corrupt old school and a lot of good ones as well but they know the b.s. and the rabbit holes that just aren't it...

Click and the others for all their investgating could not place a single one there. Nor did any witness.

The D turned this case into a circus and if they had their way they would the trial as well.

LEAKERS. I wonder if they've been to the grave of the suicided man or sent an offering to the family...

One thing is for sure, look how many have fallen down this rabbit hole... Of nothingness....

IMHO Gull probably did not want to look since they claim it always that she again is against them and ruled against everything BUT she followed what she had, the lack of what they had, the fact they never did the confessions individually but wanted ALL OUT. They wanted ALL EVERYTHING OUT. They filed ridiculous filings going all over the place with no focused points, etc. In the end, she did what any judge would because they just didn't do it, provide it, etc. If following the law.

I hope these men sue the D attorneys arses off at some point.

I guess with this decision we are getting back into the territory of not all agreeing.

It's just my opinion. They have tried to create a circus and they did so. By leaks, by the public, by the filings intentionally let out etc. With nothing but b.s. most of which looked like an upset teenager wrote it...

Not trying to be that way it is HOW I see it.
 

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