LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I have either read this before or it is the very same thing someone else has said or more likely is what the defense alleges are abuses of his rights.

I honestly to date haven't seen much of substance.

The water in the visitor's room? It isn't like they are saying he is denied water, only in the visitor's room so I am guessing there must be a reason. So when it is visiting day and he has a visitor he can't have water or he can't have water provided by the vistior? Odd. I can only guess they are concerned he not commit suicide. Apparently he IS allowed water or they wouldn't state it as just when he is in the visitor's room. Likely there are machines to have paid snacks or beverages and perhaps a guard refused to wait on him and get him water instead? Just saying this very claim seems like it is making a mountain out of a molehill and what are they trying to imply, that the man receives no water if one doesn't think about the fact it was only said to be in the visitor's room? Bread and water denied, oh my.

Of course the defense is arguing his confessions can't be trusted, what else are they going to do when the man is confessing?? No one is making him confess.

A shock vest is for someone who could go into cardiac arrest.

I've seen many a case, I think we all have, where documents are sealed in the beginning of the case and then released after a bit, generally to protect the investigation is usually the reason but it can only be justified for so long. Unless you are Judge Boyce in the Vallow case I guess... I don't find it unusual they are now being unsealed or SOME of them are. I wonder if it has anything to do with Kline, the timing is interesting...

The only thing I see of any substance is being videotaped with his attorney and the sheriff attempting to visit him to question him. I suspect there is more to this. First of all WHEN did the sheriff try to visit him and did he say that was his purpose? As to videotaping with his attorney, is this just tape of visual or with sound? What is done with it and who has access? He is likely on suicide watch.

Note what isn't said and that is things like his being beaten (nope), denied visitors (nope), denied access to his attorney (nope), denied phone calls (nope), denied food and water (nope). Etc.

He clearly also isn't very isolated if he is confessing to other inmates.

Funny how the significance of this is being ignored or seems to be.

While his arrest surprised me as much as anyone, and he isn't a dead ringer for the man in LIBBY'S video, he was there and he placed himself there. I'm not sure anyone would have been a dead ringer for that grainy hard to see detail video. I trust they have their man and am interested in seeing the documents and the info in the case. HOPEFULLY they have done their job, not that I am expecting a landslide of DNA evidence, etc. but I do wonder what they found in the search of his home/premises, etc.

Interesting that he disparages the judge for releasing documents as is to be the case when the sealing of them cannot be justified any longer. Am I remembering incorrectly or isn't this judge highly qualified and respected? One stepped down due to threats and info out about he and his family in a very unprofessional public manner I might say he recused himself.

I'd have to know more to believe his basic constitutional rights are being violated. Maybe more is known and I just haven't seen it due to lack of time but more likely they aren't being violated as nothing has come of the defense's huffing and puffing about it.

She isn't an inexperienced judge and I can't believe the state nor the county would want to risk this case and she has heard the meat of the arguments unlike us and I'm guessing there isn't much "meat" in them. Just a guess though.

I gather his wife continues to stand by the defendant.

I find his article very slanted honestly, based on the little we know anyhow.

These remarks aren't directed at you at all, I'm just responding to the article and in general, so replied to the post of it/what is in it.
A shock vest is not for someone going into cardiac arrest. It's a device in lieu of leg shackles. It's literally like a dog shock collar on steroids.

A LifeVest is a wearable defibrillator.

Someone reported yesterday he was basically requiring assistance to walk. This is 3rd world behavior and it's absolutely appalling.
 
This is well worth a watch imo. Vinnie has the people from Murder Sheet Podcast on who I believe are the ones that got the records unsealed with a motion. They were in court and saw the proceeding.

There is footage of Allen a few times. He looks healthy enough to me. He walks, he isn't fat any longer and his hair is shaved. He hast lost his beer belly.

The Murder Sheet guy said he seemed a bit dazed and did not acknowledge his wife sitting there which he usually does.

Hmm. I never forget first of all that anyone who did this crime was evil and likely cunning and he hid things and lied and likely from his daughter and wife at all. I see most of anything he woudl pull as an act OR he is not happy with his wife and his lack of acknowledging her may be that she hasn't gotten him out or filled his canteen account or just of control.

We are talking about an alleged murderer of two teen girls who also had his community fooled for YEARS as well as his local bartender, etc.

He NEEDS to be where it is secure. Imo.

 
The woman who I forget who she is said maybe his confessions are due to him knowing what Kline is going to say or has said and he knows the gig is up....

I think the release of these records have an uncanny timing with the Kline thing... Just as other timing has had relating to Kline...

I guess we will see...
 
VP says that Allen was being interviewed in 2017, and he said he was wearing similar clothing. VP then says: "Who remembers what they were wearing five years ago!"

It wasn't five years ago. It was in 2017.

simon cowell facepalm GIF
 
VP says that Allen was being interviewed in 2017, and he said he was wearing similar clothing. VP then says: "Who remembers what they were wearing five years ago!"

It wasn't five years ago. It was in 2017.

simon cowell facepalm GIF
Lol you know what he meant. Vinnie is getting older and is a bit behind the times is all/can't track time lol

There was some good stuff in there though. It reminded me of Kline saying he wouldn't talk of Delphi now but once in prison he would....

The woman remarking on that he could have been there to kidnap them both and then take them to Logan's where he, Logan and Kline had plans for them also said another thing or too quite interesting and referred to Kline another time... I have entertained a similar thought at times because of mention of a pedo ring and the dropbox thing with others accessing it... It seems it could have been a group plan.... I'm not sold on that but in no way would it surprise me in this case either...

The timing of things with Kline and Allen's arrest and now releasing the records when Kline is going away is just very coincidental...
 
Lol you know what he meant. Vinnie is getting older and is a bit behind the times is all/can't track time lol

There was some good stuff in there though. It reminded me of Kline saying he wouldn't talk of Delphi now but once in prison he would....

The woman remarking on that he could have been there to kidnap them both and then take them to Logan's where he, Logan and Kline had plans for them also said another thing or too quite interesting and referred to Kline another time... I have entertained a similar thought at times because of mention of a pedo ring and the dropbox thing with others accessing it... It seems it could have been a group plan.... I'm not sold on that but in no way would it surprise me in this case either...

The timing of things with Kline and Allen's arrest and now releasing the records when Kline is going away is just very coincidental...

I thought they were going after a pedo ring too. It sure doesn't look like they have anything at all on one.
 
I am most likely wrong, but something really bothers me about this case. To the point where I wonder if some evidence has been manufactured. He confessed about five to six times while in jail. To who? He's in his cell alone for about 23 hours a day.

Of course some makes sense. If he did admit to being on the bridge and wearing what the girls who saw him described, what took so long to get a warrant to search his property?

I'm convinced that Ronald Logan was involved in some way too. Two people shown the footage of Bridge Guy and knew Logan, thought it was video of Logan right off the bat.

At the very least this has been investigated by Keystone Cops. They put the picture of Bridge Guy out and then put up a completely different picture of another guy. Turns out the second guy was just an image taken from the internet and used on a Facebook profile.

All they had to do was take the picture of the guy and run it through Google images. Evidently, that never occurred to them.

Then there is the whole Kline thing. It seemed he had information on a child porn ring, it seems that wasn't the case, so far. If they're still working on that it seems they aren't doing it very well.

Maybe I'm just being a conspiracy guy (apologies to Chris Elliot) but something really stinks about all of this. I've seen a lot of cases where people were railroaded simply because public pressure was getting too intense.

confused-animated-smiley.gif
 
I get what you mean, things just don't feel right or seem to add up but I think a lot of that is how long this case has went on and all the info we have heard, etc. like about the pedo ring and then their putting out the second sketch, centering on Logan and more things have just made it one muddled case with our having not enough info on one hand but too much of various cryptic things on the other hand.

Only recently I heard (on the Vinnie show I posted I think) opinions that they DID know of Allen and it wasn't an error or his being overlooked. They cited the one press conference where it was said strongly he may be from the area, hiding amongst them, watching, etc., etc. which exactly fits Allen, I remember feeling watching that that the guy was present at the PC and I remember looking at every face and watching it over and over and looking in the crowd, etc. But anyhow a couple of them or one of them (can't recall) think the cops have known of him all along but kept silent and were working on it is how it came across to me... I'm not so sure of that, I do think the "clerical error" maybe came to their attention prior to that PC but was a few years in by then and they had to work quietly and backwards having lost time and possibly making it harder to find MORE to prove it was Allen.

I don't know. And then maybe that led them back to Kline as well...

Nothing does seem to be coming from a pedo ring but I can tell you those things are often kept VERY quiet. It also could be a fed investigation which is even more quiet generally.

I am not CONVINCED there is a connection between Kline, Allen and Logan and it was a "conspiracy" but I sure don't dismiss it and it is one of my thoughts/real possibilities.

I think I've said this to you before but there is a lot. Allen WAS there and said as much. Dressed as the guy was. No one else could have done it with the timing and all. His car was there. Etc. And more I don't have the time or memory to go into this morning. I do think they have the right guy or ONE of them.

I just don't think they'd risk arresting the wrong person or railroad someone. They were under no more pressure than ever and in fact it was pretty quiet other than all the Kline stuff when all of a sudden news of an arrest in the case came to us after years and years of no results and out of the blue.

I think at a certain point Allen came to their attention again (or he always was on their radar but doesn't seem like it to me) or came to their attention for the first time due to the info getting "misfiled", etc., etc. and then they went to work trying to get enough info, find out more that could confirm he was their man, get more on him and so forth. They claim going through ALL the case info again brought him to their attention but I think something led to Kline and something came from him is just as likely...

Who knows?? And I know what you mean about them being keystone cops but the State has been very involved in the case as well, etc. but then who knows that they are very good either I guess...

I guess time will tell. The thing is they didn't arrest some guy who wasn't there or are railroading a guy that wasn't there or do you think they made up the fact he told them he was there?

With documents now about to come out, maybe we will know more, however, it will probably just cause more guess work and confuse us further lol.

I think part of it is the length of the case and all of the overboard discussion and wanting to find an answer so many of us have been involved in with online discussion, speculation, etc. makes it harder. I know that cases like McCann, Ramsey, Abby and Libby, etc., these old but high interest cases, if they solve them or made an arrest, doubt is going to come especially if it seems questionable or isn't who/what we thought, etc. or makes one wonder why the heck they didn't see the guy or have them on the radar back at the time.

I just don't know. I think they have the right guy. I'm not sure he is the only guy but I think he is the right guy due to many things. That he was from Delphi surprises me not one bit but that he didn't come 100 percent onto their radar on stating way back when that he was there and in the right time frame does surprise me.

As I think someone said (was it in that show as well or on Grizzly, can't recall), if you were the guy who talked to Allen and took this info way back when and then years passed with frustration and no arrest wouldn't you ask HEY whatever came of the guy that was there, did you investigate him and how was he cleared??? How could such a mistake stay buried this long on such a case they wanted to solve so BAD? What of the person who took this info and sat with Allen back then??? I think it was said it was a DNR person or park ranger or someone he met with wasn't it? When he said he was there?

I am looking forward to the document dump this next week. Not sure how much or how good it will be. Probably won't tell us a lot but I think it will show defense fighting to suppress some things or alternatively what the prosecution wanted sealed, etc.

There was a reason the judge agreed these last months to have them sealed and there is a reason the other day she just easily said yeah, okay, they should be released. They were sealing for some reason for a time. I think the fact Kline is about taken care of and is solid now could be the reason....?
 
I get what you mean, things just don't feel right or seem to add up but I think a lot of that is how long this case has went on and all the info we have heard, etc. like about the pedo ring and then their putting out the second sketch, centering on Logan and more things have just made it one muddled case with our having not enough info on one hand but too much of various cryptic things on the other hand.

Only recently I heard (on the Vinnie show I posted I think) opinions that they DID know of Allen and it wasn't an error or his being overlooked. They cited the one press conference where it was said strongly he may be from the area, hiding amongst them, watching, etc., etc. which exactly fits Allen, I remember feeling watching that that the guy was present at the PC and I remember looking at every face and watching it over and over and looking in the crowd, etc. But anyhow a couple of them or one of them (can't recall) think the cops have known of him all along but kept silent and were working on it is how it came across to me... I'm not so sure of that, I do think the "clerical error" maybe came to their attention prior to that PC but was a few years in by then and they had to work quietly and backwards having lost time and possibly making it harder to find MORE to prove it was Allen.

I don't know. And then maybe that led them back to Kline as well...

Nothing does seem to be coming from a pedo ring but I can tell you those things are often kept VERY quiet. It also could be a fed investigation which is even more quiet generally.

I am not CONVINCED there is a connection between Kline, Allen and Logan and it was a "conspiracy" but I sure don't dismiss it and it is one of my thoughts/real possibilities.

I think I've said this to you before but there is a lot. Allen WAS there and said as much. Dressed as the guy was. No one else could have done it with the timing and all. His car was there. Etc. And more I don't have the time or memory to go into this morning. I do think they have the right guy or ONE of them.

I just don't think they'd risk arresting the wrong person or railroad someone. They were under no more pressure than ever and in fact it was pretty quiet other than all the Kline stuff when all of a sudden news of an arrest in the case came to us after years and years of no results and out of the blue.

I think at a certain point Allen came to their attention again (or he always was on their radar but doesn't seem like it to me) or came to their attention for the first time due to the info getting "misfiled", etc., etc. and then they went to work trying to get enough info, find out more that could confirm he was their man, get more on him and so forth. They claim going through ALL the case info again brought him to their attention but I think something led to Kline and something came from him is just as likely...

Who knows?? And I know what you mean about them being keystone cops but the State has been very involved in the case as well, etc. but then who knows that they are very good either I guess...

I guess time will tell. The thing is they didn't arrest some guy who wasn't there or are railroading a guy that wasn't there or do you think they made up the fact he told them he was there?

With documents now about to come out, maybe we will know more, however, it will probably just cause more guess work and confuse us further lol.

I think part of it is the length of the case and all of the overboard discussion and wanting to find an answer so many of us have been involved in with online discussion, speculation, etc. makes it harder. I know that cases like McCann, Ramsey, Abby and Libby, etc., these old but high interest cases, if they solve them or made an arrest, doubt is going to come especially if it seems questionable or isn't who/what we thought, etc. or makes one wonder why the heck they didn't see the guy or have them on the radar back at the time.

I just don't know. I think they have the right guy. I'm not sure he is the only guy but I think he is the right guy due to many things. That he was from Delphi surprises me not one bit but that he didn't come 100 percent onto their radar on stating way back when that he was there and in the right time frame does surprise me.

As I think someone said (was it in that show as well or on Grizzly, can't recall), if you were the guy who talked to Allen and took this info way back when and then years passed with frustration and no arrest wouldn't you ask HEY whatever came of the guy that was there, did you investigate him and how was he cleared??? How could such a mistake stay buried this long on such a case they wanted to solve so BAD? What of the person who took this info and sat with Allen back then??? I think it was said it was a DNR person or park ranger or someone he met with wasn't it? When he said he was there?

I am looking forward to the document dump this next week. Not sure how much or how good it will be. Probably won't tell us a lot but I think it will show defense fighting to suppress some things or alternatively what the prosecution wanted sealed, etc.

There was a reason the judge agreed these last months to have them sealed and there is a reason the other day she just easily said yeah, okay, they should be released. They were sealing for some reason for a time. I think the fact Kline is about taken care of and is solid now could be the reason....?

All we have is their word that Allen admitted that. Is it on video in his interrogation? Too much smells.
 
He put himself in the area according to whom? Other than the cops, how do we know that?
That is a good point, but we have also not heard anybody else saying it wasn't him they saw or that wasn't his car they saw, etc, but I do see your point to a bit. I can't remember for sure as to where all the information I have read was only from cops or if it was actual interviews, etc, so I can't dispute it, either. I just hadn't thought about that aspect of the info given.
 
All we have is their word that Allen admitted that. Is it on video in his interrogation? Too much smells.
I don't know and can't recall but I've been under the impression it is not/was not disputed by Allen. Id' think if he'd never placed himself there or claimed to be dressed as he was that there definitely would be backlash coming from Allen and the defense PLUS the clothes they found match, etc. His car is on video in the area, etc. and more.

Let's look at the flip side, do you think they really picked some pharmacist from Delphi without a criminal record to pick on or use as a scapegoat? Why?

They'do better blaming Kline or some meth head or pedo from a nearby town etc. than some guy that was obscure with no criminal history if this is some set up. I think the way you are looking at it makes far less sense. And we have to keep in mind there is more. We don't know what they found, we don't know if he was processing pics at work that were pedo kinds of pics, etc., whether he was at work or claimed to be but was missing that day, etc... We don't know much of any of it yet as to findings on the warrant, his electronics, DNA, items of the girls anything...
 
no. we also have him putting himself in the area, his car in the area, people describing him as the one in the area, etc. Too many things linking him to bypass as not a viable suspect. This is all without him supposedly admitting it.
Yes there is a lot and that's only with the little we know. He wasn't picked out of the blue as some scapegoat. He did come out of the blue at us because the public had never heard of nor known of him. And I think that's what seems so strange to some.
 
He put himself in the area according to whom? Other than the cops, how do we know that?
I would have to guess it isn't just one officer's word for it or all talking heads on Court TV with Vinnie, all YTers, the Murder Podcast and more would be going on that there isn't proof he said this. Everyone so into or interested in this case couldn't be that clueless could they? I would have to guess it is recorded (what he said). Or that he admitted it again in this more recent time. There wouldn't have been enough basis to do much if they didn't have some solid groundwork. I feel as if we know, I just can't remember.

This was a big case and I'd think and hope that anyone they interviewed was recorded, etc.
 

View attachment 19541
This is what a guilty man looks like IMO. He is realising what is going to come out at trial.

From the link-

DELPHI — Richard Allen has made "admissions of guilt" to more than one person about his involvement in the deaths of Liberty German and Abigail Williams, according to Carroll County Prosecutor Nicolas McCleland.

"He made multiple confessions to multiple people," McCleland said during Allen's hearing on Thursday.

Allen's attorney acknowledged the confessions, saying Allen had made "incriminating statements" while at Westville Correctional Facility. He also claimed those statements should not be trusted because of his client's mental state.


“Confessions, non-confessions, incriminating statements, non-incriminating statements, we’ll deal with that," Allen's attorney Brad Rozzi said. "The jury will hear all of that.”

Allen arrived at the Carroll County Courthouse on Thursday wearing a yellow jumpsuit with his hands cuffed in front of him. His face was shaven and those in attendance noted that he appeared to have lost additional weight since his last court appearance.

Richard Allen

WRTV
Allen’s wife was among the crowd gathered inside the courtroom.

“He’s my person,” she whispered to WRTV’s Kaitlyn Kendall before the hearing began.
 

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