LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
What would he be a potential witness to?

I'm sure it has to do with his alleged treatment at the prison plus perhaps his mental and physical condition due to such. They tried to get him for a recent hearing and that is what the defense has been raising in recent hearings. Imo all they have for a defense is trying to go for a mental one especially since he confessed.

This man has lived and worked just fine all the years after the murder, walked amongst the victims and the people of Delphi, drank beer with them in front of the girls' posters, etc. But the minute he is incarcerated he develops mental issues. Uh huh.

The other inmate was talked of in the Court TV thing and he sounds like one of those jailhouse lawyers always filing things and not the most credible the way it sounds. Of course if the things he says are true, then shame on the IN prison staff BUT I find some of it difficult to believe, like the part about the warden.

I guess it is also possible he has seen behavior by Allen and maybe even heard his confessions to his wife and mother, hard to say. (The inmate I mean, not the warden)

Of note, this man himself is a sick child pedo who molested a child and is serving 40 years for it, so whatever he did to some poor child gained him a pretty serious sentence and has him housed in the same area of the prison.

Imo with the release of docs, more has come out that supports the fakeness of Allen's mental and physical condition (or intentional act and not eating, eating paper, etc.) and the timing of which they started to raise heck about it and moving him. Imo it is all due to trying to save him from the confessions he made in a desperate attempt to get them thrown out and not heard by any jury.

I haven't had time to watch much and have read nothing. Does anyone know if Allen's wife and/or mother reported his confessions to authorities after they heard them?
 
Last edited:
On the Court TV thing, Vinnie asked the Murder Sheet guy (who is an attorney by the way) what stood out to him of what they took when executing the search warrant, etc. His top thing was taking a cutting from the area around the spare tire. He found that significant. I did/do too as well. Several reasons for it come to mind and at its simplest maybe it is just a common area to look for evidence? I mean hiding clothing, evidence, etc. in that area so perhaps one would find blood. That's the simplest explanation.

More likely though is something about that area relates to something they know...?

He went on of course to mention other things but that was his top one. He mentioned all the phones, computers, etc. and the clothing.
 
I'm sure it has to do with his alleged treatment at the prison plus perhaps his mental and physical condition due to such. They tried to get him for a recent hearing and that is what the defense has been raising in recent hearings. Imo all they have for a defense is trying to go for a mental one especially since he confessed.

This man has lived and worked just fine all the years after the murder, walked amongst the victims and the people of Delphi, drank beer with them in front of the girls' posters, etc. But the minute he is incarcerated he develops mental issues. Uh huh.

The other inmate was talked of in the Court TV thing and he sounds like one of those jailhouse lawyers always filing things and not the most credible the way it sounds. Of course if the things he says are true, then shame on the IN prison staff BUT I find some of it difficult to believe, like the part about the warden.

I guess it is also possible he has seen behavior by Allen and maybe even heard his confessions to his wife and mother, hard to say.

Of note, this man himself is a sick child pedo who molested a child and is serving 40 years for it, so whatever he did to some poor child gained him a pretty serious sentence and has him housed in the same area of the prison.

Imo with the release of docs, more has come out that supports the fakeness of Allen's mental and physical condition (or intentional act and not eating, eating paper, etc.) and the timing of which they started to raise heck about it and moving him. Imo it is all due to trying to save him from the confessions he made in a desperate attempt to get them thrown out and not heard by any jury.

I haven't had time to watch much and have read nothing. Does anyone know if Allen's wife and/or mother reported his confessions to authorities after they heard them?
Yep, very good points.
 
If they play audio of phone calls to his mother and wife, confessing, hang him in the courtroom.
I think I now understand. He admitted the killings and is now going for an insanity defence. Or he wants to die as the confession to his wife has really sent him mad. The phone calls would be recorded and they both would have known that. So it would not be subject to legal protection, eg if he had confessed to his lawyer.
 
I think I now understand. He admitted the killings and is now going for an insanity defence. Or he wants to die as the confession to his wife has really sent him mad. The phone calls would be recorded and they both would have known that. So it would not be subject to legal protection, eg if he had confessed to his lawyer.


According to someone on CourtTV, there is a BIG sign stating that all calls are being recorded.
 
I wondered if it was that. I think they should focus on his defense but I suppose they can do more than one thing. Maybe he's needed to still try and get him moved out of that facility?
I think what they are trying since he likely has no mental history is to insinuate his treatment at the prison helped break him mentally and then from there they will try a mental defense. I mean what else do they have now to combat multiple confessions? Jmo of course.
 
I think I now understand. He admitted the killings and is now going for an insanity defence. Or he wants to die as the confession to his wife has really sent him mad. The phone calls would be recorded and they both would have known that. So it would not be subject to legal protection, eg if he had confessed to his lawyer.
I expect somewhere down the line a claim he had no idea they were recorded. I'd never believe it but I think he/they may try. I think the attorney would know that's an unbelievable claim but I wouldn't doubt Allen would claim it. This is a man who claimed he had no idea what a defense attorney would cost when he asked for an attorney after a bit. You committed a crime of a double murder and have been free for years and never worried nor considered such and he isn't young and naive. I think he is a FOX. Not a good sly one but he thinks he is. Let's not eat and get gaunt, etc. Look at how he dressed and approached these girls. Everything was so nondescript, head down some there too... Hunched, hands in pocket.

I may be wrong, but I am developing a picture of this man and it isn't the one he is portraying. It's an ACT.

Not arguing with anyone, just my instinct and all we have seen.

Maybe these things were benign but I don't think so--just think of him in front of that or those posters in the bar. Now think of his daughter on the MONAN HIGH BRIDGE in a shirt like Libby's... Add in all this other...

He thinks he is one smart dude and unfortunately, some are buying his woe is me act. I don't think he is happy don't get me wrong but it is an act. This man is a quiet control freak and cunning. He likes the games.

Again just all my opinion but I sense it pretty strongly and everything that happens or comes out only confirms it further to me.

I could be wrong of course.
 
I wondered if it was that. I think they should focus on his defense but I suppose they can do more than one thing. Maybe he's needed to still try and get him moved out of that facility?
I think they should. It's just highly unusual the lengths they've gone to regarding his housing. It's my personal opinion the State is doing their case a disservice by keeping him in a prison for convicted criminals. It's creating a massive bias and may figure into an appeal.
 
I think they should. It's just highly unusual the lengths they've gone to regarding his housing. It's my personal opinion the State is doing their case a disservice by keeping him in a prison for convicted criminals. It's creating a massive bias and may figure into an appeal.
It is highly unusual, I agree RoundPeg! I think he should be moved as well.
 
Last edited:
According to someone on CourtTV, there is a BIG sign stating that all calls are being recorded.
I'm thinking the wife knew for sure about the conversations being recorded why else would she abruptly hang up on him when he confessed to her? I think he knows it too although I don't think he's acting. I think he's under extreme pressure guilty or not. Does it matter if he knows anyhow? I would also think his lawyers would have told him about the calls being recorded. It will be interesting hearing those recordings. I think that will give the jury a pretty good idea of his state of mind.
 
Alex Murdaugh, an attorney himself, said things on phone calls and then had a fit it came out. I don't believe he was clueless and I don't believe Allen was either. I think they feel that invincible or smarter or feel the system is dumb and the people who work in it.

I think it is a mix of invincibility and in Allen's case cat and mouse. i do think though with his wife it would be easy to see her threatening to not be there for him as all are talking of or wondering about her and what he has left her dealing with financially and worse and if he does not tell her the TRUTH. And even IF he knew it was recorded, he NEEDS someone on the outside.

For some reason I think of Summer's call with Lori Vallow, sisters. She CLEARLY is falling apart but Lori doesn't crack because she is COLD and knows it is recorded. Lori also was okay with her attorneys and is convinced she is god's special child. I only don't capitalize god because whatever God chose her that she has cannot be the same one I believe in. I picture Allen's wife reeling with emotion just like Summer was and up and down. I honestly don't doubt he has some human emotions for the loss of his life (meaning on the outside) and what not and it hasn't been easy but I think he likely was put on the spot by her about what about this and how do you explain this and I want to believe you but how can I... You TELL me the truth or I am done with you is how I expect it went.

Of COURSE I am speculating. We all are. Do you know what else such a type does to get their way? Threaten suicide or that they want to die. They play that as their last card with spouses etc. I stayed in my first marriage for longer than I should have because of this game. I was young. And we are all taught you don't ignore anyone saying that. Sooo maybe she was done with him and said so and wanted the truth and he said he did it and deserved to die and that he wanted to, she was leaving, he was incarcerated, etc. To get HER to worry he had a death wish.

He had to do what he had to do at the time and then figured he could get out of it, no one would ever hear it, or he would deal with the fall out when it came (others knowing he confessed).

Again just a lot of speculation by me but yeah, it will be interesting to hear the calls.

Here is a thought to chew on though, and boiling it down, if he is confessing all over the place at that time then why would he not change his plea to guilty if he was so ridden by guilt or whatever?

I think he likely had to when given the things by her or there would be a fall out there and then he had to deal with the next thing next. If his wife LEFT him and it was publicly known, of course we
d all think she'd come to realize he was guilty. He can't have that.

I am guessing Lil RIcky was between a rock and a hard place. And he also allegedly confessed to his mom. The two he likely has outside of bars to provide help or money for a private attorney, commissary, show support in court are his parents and his wife.

I find it very interesting we hear nothing of the daughter being there in support of her dad.

I know this all sounds harsh. But I believe he did this and we don't know the half of the sick things he put these girls through. We know how he approached and more. And I keep in mind the crime that was committed here. This is not some turnip who fell of the country bumpkin truck. He is not naive.

This is NOT AT anyone or even in disagreement, just kind of writing as things come of my thoughts on it. I don't want anyone taking it as addressing them because I'm not.

Libby makes me think of Tylee Ryan for some reason. Can anyone agree on that one? They both sounded like protectors and the type that would fight for someone more vulnerable or their friends, brother, etc.

I think what brings such vehemence to me is the crimes that were committed against others. And I've always felt that way even before our loss. I do not like it when things aren't fair, or justice does not prevail. Was that way as a child. I am a Libra. The scales. It has always fit me. Jsut saying, always been a thing with me.

Been a long week and a stressful one. And the day off today was as well, no relief. Sorry for going on. Guess I am right now using cases and perps as a safe outlet to go at. Maybe that's part of it.
 
The state’s response to a defense motion to suppress evidence revealed for the first time publicly that investigators believed a knife was used to kill the girls. The document also includes the search warrant and search warrant return.


“Autopsies of the girls ruled their deaths as homicides and their wounds were caused by sharp object,” according to the documents.
Sorry if these details have already been posted. I haven't fully read all of the links and documents yet.

Delphi murders: Knife likely used in killing of 2 girls on hiking trail, docs reveal​

Investigators believe Richard Allen used a "sharp object" to kill Liberty "Libby" German, 14, and Abigail Williams, 13, Feb. 14, 2017, while the two teen girls were walking on a popular hiking trail in Delphi, court documents unsealed Wednesday revealed.

Investigators initially questioned Allen that same year after witnesses and security footage tied him and his vehicle to the crime scene.


A pair of underwear and a sock appeared to be missing from the crime scene when police arrived. Under Libby's body, detectives found a phone, which had a 43-second video showing Abigail walking on the Monon High Bridge toward Libby while a man wearing a dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. The man can be heard ordering the girls "down the hill," according to an affidavit released Wednesday.

Libby captured the video at 2:13 p.m., less than 25 minutes after she and Abigail's family members dropped them off at the trail.


Based on their investigation, authorities "believe a firearm was involved in the abduction and murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German because an unspent .40-caliber round was found between the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German."

Investigators also "believe a knife was used in the murder of Abigail Williams and Liberty German."

A medical examiner determined the girls died by homicide and had wounds caused by a "sharp object," court documents state.


Five years later, on Oct. 13, 2022, investigators again interviewed Allen and his wife, Kathy Allen. During that interview, Allen confirmed he had been wearing "blue jeans, and blue or black Carhart jacket with hood and that he was wearing head covering" when he was on the trail that day.

Authorities said Allen's description of his clothing that day and items that were later recovered from his home "match the description of the man seen on the bridge from the video taken by Liberty German's phone. "

Investigators executed a search warrant at the Allens' home in Delphi Oct. 13, 2022, and they recovered a blue Carhartt jacket, a SIG Sauer P226 .40-caliber semiautomatic handgun and a .40-caliber S&W cartridge in a "wooden keepsake box" from a dresser between two closets in Allen's bedroom.

The handgun recovered at Allen's home was consistent with the .40-caliber unspent bullet police located at the site of the murders in 2017.
 
I'm thinking the wife knew for sure about the conversations being recorded why else would she abruptly hang up on him when he confessed to her? I think he knows it too although I don't think he's acting. I think he's under extreme pressure guilty or not. Does it matter if he knows anyhow? I would also think his lawyers would have told him about the calls being recorded. It will be interesting hearing those recordings. I think that will give the jury a pretty good idea of his state of mind.

After his calls to his mom and wife, he made no more phone calls. I also believe he didn't receive any phone calls. I have no problem believing he has true remorse, about telling his wife and mother.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,498
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom