LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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That timeline is very suspect. I forget how it all fits together, but the "It's a Crime" videos explain it all.

I think KK set up a meeting with them under the Anthony Shots account. RL was the one on the bridge who corralled them to go down the hill. Waiting below were others, KK being one, RA may have been one of them too.
I forget as well but even in my own mind, I don't know that HE was actually seen in Lafayette and that receipt could have been from anyone... Or we don't know if cash, card, owner's recall him, etc. Or did she show enough time to do that, get back and more. Then there was the "dump" run. I really worry about my memory these days but here you are doing the sama. These huge cases like Daybell and this one with sooo much it gets hard when one follows them all and reads all and time lapses and the get quiet, etc.
 
Family members reports to LE (driving out of their way to report to LE).
I'd have to know more on all that but guessing you mean the ones talked of that said this or that to family members, etc. If I ever get time I think I could explain all that pretty well but it isn't going to be now. One thing I would like to know is how many people reported their neighbor, hub, ex etc. with a tip thinking it could be them that were NOT Os?? That's one thing I'd like to know first...

One thing is clear, defense caused doubt because people are having it, many, some, etc. or entertaining it. However, I would point out defense gets their time in the sun with prosecution not going into and sharing yet why what they say of even the scene and the perp couldn't be and re evidence and so on. You KNOW, I KNOW you do that defense left out ANYTHING that would negate this story or implicate their client. Naturally they did. That is a no brainer. Would you agree on that?

I think it all reeks of desperation quite honestly because they know now is the time they could intentionally make sure it hit the public before the sh*t starts to rain on them when the other side gets to show what all they have and have been working on.

I hope and pray anyhow and maybe I'm wrong but this is a one sided save RA version again that smells of desperate times call for desperate measures.

Of course if RA is truly innocent then I want it coming out and the right person arrested BUT I don't see that here at all. The MAN PLACED HIMSELF there.
 
Brain bleed?
Internal bleed?
Gravity; she bled downhill from her neck wound. (abby "took a long time to die".)
I dunno.

I'm more concerned about how they got from one side of creek to the other, and why there's been thinking about 2 crime scenes; not just one.
(and that doesn't included the 3rd crime scene of the kidnapping).
I can't say like others I don't still have questions, how can we not with not all shared and so on and in fact very little shared through the years by LE and still.

I have always felt and thought the girls may not have been killed that afternoon/early evening. I mean we have no WAY of knowing that, never did have a way to be sure and still don't imo. So yes a second scene whether near or farther. Inside or out. Etc.

Bled downhill from her neck wound, etc. from you. Yeah.
It all just shows if we have these questions, jurors will. Your questions of most import may differ from mine but we all have them. Emu, you, me, all, etc.
I tend to trust especially after this long if something is charged, thee is good reason and more than we know. The last thing they'd want is more egg on their face or doubts BUT they charged this and I do believe I smell desperation in Allen and the defense.
I think there is more here than we know. We don't know sh*t from the prosecution, how Kline plays in, what they found at Allen's or with his phone records and more. Where else he was that day, where he should have been and more. What his wife or employer said and more.
We know defense knows what prosecution does, not sure how much about investigating Kline on other things they'd have to share... but defense has the discovery on all with RA and we know they cherry picked but what are they IGNORING to get us all colored right now that they failed to investigate Os fully...
I haven't fallen for it and I could be wrong but at least three of us here haven't...
This was wild for a defense theory and they definitely had some sh*t to use and put together and center on but I do think there is a reason for all that...
I guess we shall see. I don't care if I am right or wrong, just going where what is know sends me or staying put as the case may be.
 
FYI: mel's last post was October 9th. So, it's been 9 days. Goodness, we've been through a war since she last posted.
I have been wanting to ask for days but get five minutes if that and just assumed maybe she was in the basement where I haven't been probably in at least two weeks or ten days, something like that. NOW i AM worried and was noticing lately... 'She generally checks and responds a bit to new comments or news on cases and all this activity here and in Morphew and not a sign of her.

@Cousin Dupree any contact with her in last week or two??
 
His failure fits with the meeting planned with Libby, the Shotz thing, the drop box and RA and Kline being a part of all together and the pedo ring thing. Whether Kline let RA have THIS one or the group did OR whether RA simply knew of the girls through this, etc., Kline could know the dropbox, he himself, the Shotz thing put RA there and then yeah he too is "responsible" for the girls death or he was there or was supposed to be, etc., etc.

I haven't let the Kline or pedo thing go but I have not jumped on board with the Os. There just isn't enough reason to and too much doesn't work. You seem to be struggling with all of the possibilities no?

All I think is that there are more avenues that need exploring. As I've said I'm sure more than one person was involved. I want THEM all caught not just a sacrificial lamb.

Why send RL? He had a gun, as did at least one of the others, but perhaps a 5'4" man wouldn't seem intimidating. At their ages they were probably close to 5'4" themselves, or they didn't think he could control two girls. I don't know.

This isn't the first case where we don't know exactly what happened. We don't know what happened in the Murdaugh case, just theories, but enough to convict. We don't know how Heuermann did his killings, but there is enough evidence to convict him.

So, nobody has all the answers. KK said he told the cops what happened, but they don't believe him. It doesn't fit the evidence. Supposedly the person who said they saw a muddy and bloody guy never said bloody in his first interview. From the beginning I felt there was something off about this. I think they may be trying to make the case against RA fit their theory.

Do they have RA's DNA? I've never heard if they did or not.
 
There's the possibility both were made to undress and more under duress. The redress depends on if one believes what the defense says. I haven't read the defense entire thing past a few pages of the intro but apparently redress had to happen after dead but not sure that's true but I guess their point is if he then slashed the throat (wan['t it? i HATE these details) she would have bled all over the clothes she had on. So what is your tihinking? How could he have killed Abby after her dressing and avoid that?

I've heard it was a bloody scene, but not if the actual spot where they were found was drenched in blood. I think they were moved after being captured. They may have been assaulted elsewhere and then killed.

I forget as well but even in my own mind, I don't know that HE was actually seen in Lafayette and that receipt could have been from anyone... Or we don't know if cash, card, owner's recall him, etc. Or did she show enough time to do that, get back and more. Then there was the "dump" run. I really worry about my memory these days but here you are doing the sama. These huge cases like Daybell and this one with sooo much it gets hard when one follows them all and reads all and time lapses and the get quiet, etc.

The woman on "It's a Crime" said that in order to believe his timeline, he would have been at the fish store for 3 hours. I had a couple of fish tanks and never even came close to being in one for three hours. One hour MAYBE, if they were busy. His cell phone pings didn't match his story either. They show him around where the girls were found.
 
All I think is that there are more avenues that need exploring. As I've said I'm sure more than one person was involved. I want THEM all caught not just a sacrificial lamb.

Why send RL? He had a gun, as did at least one of the others, but perhaps a 5'4" man wouldn't seem intimidating. At their ages they were probably close to 5'4" themselves, or they didn't think he could control two girls. I don't know.

This isn't the first case where we don't know exactly what happened. We don't know what happened in the Murdaugh case, just theories, but enough to convict. We don't know how Heuermann did his killings, but there is enough evidence to convict him.

So, nobody has all the answers. KK said he told the cops what happened, but they don't believe him. It doesn't fit the evidence. Supposedly the person who said they saw a muddy and bloody guy never said bloody in his first interview. From the beginning I felt there was something off about this. I think they may be trying to make the case against RA fit their theory.

Do they have RA's DNA? I've never heard if they did or not.
I haven't ruled out others as you know, in what capacity, I'm not sure, just knowledge or actually being there but that would be Kline and possibly RL and not sure on other in the pedo thing. I still dance with many a theory but I have not added Os. I just don't have or see any reason to but I'm never like never say never, but it just doesn't work. Meaning all the Os the defense name and SAYS did it, and wow is that stupidly bold, does not work for me.

I would NOT call RA a sacrificial lamb. Here we are with sacrifice again and that makes him sound like he is innocent or at least the most innocent of the bunch and I don't buy hat for a second.

Yes I want all caught IF there is an "all" but it all has to start somewhere and I believe it started more likely wth Kline and pressuring him and getting him put away and next is RA. THAT makes a lot more sense to me. Not that these things ever make total sense as we don't know all but it juts gels a whole lot better.

With Murdaugh, I feel pretty sure I know exactly what happened but I could leave a possibility someone else was in the know or helped but feel mostly not, it was Alex. In CB LI case , it iIS CB I feel BUT I have not ruled out his wife, etc. or group things in their life and with others but that doesn't necessarily mean the murders, maybe so, maybe not. BUT I do feel they have the KEY guy in each and possibly the only. And that is where you start and where you pressuer and they then may flip on others... RA isn't flipping on others, they are trying to remove him with nothing to back him up. If they wan the Os involved then they need a whole lot more than saying oh there is no evidence he is an O or ever has been, just take our word for it.

I see all you are seeing with the muddy and bloody etc. And with other questions. I think you and many would find such if wanting to in every case. I think if I were just driving and passed a guy that was muddy or bloody and I never expected to see either as I was having a fine day or had my mind on other things like needing to get groceries, someone in either state would all of a sudden do to my brain wow, why is that guy so stained, dirty, wet, muddy or bloody, etc.? I wonder where he has been and what he has been doing. And at that point to you wouldn't leap to murder necessarily at all. We all know blood in clothing when not that minute fresh starts going an brownish red or reddish brown and depending on color of the clothing even more so looking brown... Did she see it on his face or on dark jacket and jeans, etc.? I truly think that is one detail to not get hung up on (defense will of course, that is natural) but simply that she saw a wet or drying dirty guy WALKING down the road in the right time frame.

I don't know what would have changed to try to now make a patsy after five years. They have suffered year after year of not doing so and a lot of questions, criticisms and frustration amongst themselves and with the public of WHY they can't find this guy....He would be a patsy imo only IF they manufactured that he said he was at the bridge that day but they DID NOT. RA himself puts himself there and there is the problem with that theory. That is the FLY in THAT ointment. He admits to it because of many a reason, he KNOWS he was seen and he KNOWS what he was seen wearing, etc. as Olenna pointed out in a recent post. OF COURSE after he worried quickly and OF COURSE he had fear of getting caught and OF COURSE he knew he was there and worried he would be fast arrested and so he GOES to them FIRST, hey, I was there, can I help, I didn't see much of note but want to help... I think somehow he also knew who to contact or how to or knew the one who REALLY ruined things, the DNR guy... Et., etc.

All this said, I think we all feel something is off, Roundpeg recently said it, I feel it, you feel it, etc. but I think it has a lot to do with we don't know all, there has been a LOT of speculaion through the years, this came out of the blue, a totally unknown man to us, etc. He77 the Kline sh*t kind of gobsmacked too. I do think something is missing like another person or just enough info for us o answer a lot of unanswered questions and I think we will get more if this ever gets anywhere like to trial. Again, I'd like to know about RA's full day and interviews of his family, employier,etc. Sounds minor but these seemingly mundane details matter. Did he call in sick to work that day for instance? Tell wife and daughter go enjoy the day shopping in another city and blow some bucks and send them off? What would you think if just a total hypothetical if these things were true? What would you think if family came home to him washing clothes and in all their years he had never used the washer? What would you think if he told them when he got back, he'd have some project done and be ready to take them to dinner or have dinner waiting and it was clear he hadn't done any such thing ALL DAY? Just a bunch of hypotheticals.
This was a Monday. That could be his typical day off since retail, one can't assume Monday through Friday. I am in retail and I work every weekend (by choice or it would be ever other) and THurs/Fri are my normal days off BUT they can't always provide that either.

IF my memory serves his daughter would still be in high school so she had the day off just like A & L and I THINK his wife was Walmart and it would make sense that as much as they could they orchestrated days off each week together perhaps but with a secretive lying husband like I had he may have done just the opposite. This is how they get their time to pull their stuff. But I am sidetracking.

THis mundane stuff will tell a lot JUST FOR ONE THING. Prosecution is close lipped and not sharing anything they don't have to. And TRUST THIS, defense filed nothing that is in evidence that would IMPLICATE Allen. This is a cherry picked very one sided filing that you and others are letting take over.

Why can't you think of it this way? They NEED that search thrown out because not just the gun and ballistics BUT other things are HARMFUL for their client. It is a BIG DEAL they get it thrown out and so that is going to take a LOT of smoke and mirrors and a BIG TO DO/ a BIG HURRAH effort.

I will never get time but in the Kouri Richins case the prosecution blasted back and turned the tables big time.
 
I've heard it was a bloody scene, but not if the actual spot where they were found was drenched in blood. I think they were moved after being captured. They may have been assaulted elsewhere and then killed.



The woman on "It's a Crime" said that in order to believe his timeline, he would have been at the fish store for 3 hours. I had a couple of fish tanks and never even came close to being in one for three hours. One hour MAYBE, if they were busy. His cell phone pings didn't match his story either. They show him around where the girls were found.
Her name is Linda.

Yeah there is stuff that isn't proven as I recall. Like I said not even sure they can place HIM in town but do think there was a receipt. Anyone up to something is if smart plan the alibi or TRY to. It's why I wonder what Allen's schedule, plans etc. were that day and claims and what wife and daughter thought he was to be doing and where, etc.

How does it place him in the store for three hours? My guess would be he hit a bar as well or somewhere else with his trip to the "big city"... IF EVEN TRUE. I mean right now I could go to a store here and use your credit card if you gave me the info or pay in cash and give you the receipt as proof you were there when really it was me. It is FARFETCHED UNLESS he was involved and this was all planned though...
 
Is there a link and time? I recall hearing it will be on 30 minute delay. Smart judge, deciding rightly for coverage. Imo. Thee would e a lot more speculation and blowback without it plus it is the openness there is supposed to be and security for all by recording.
 
That doesn't mean someone couldn't have been down the hill. It doesn't even mean someone couldn't have been down the hill since earlier that day. They weren't killed on the bridge or on the trail. Even if Logan was NOT home... I grew up rural and actually right now I have people using my trail at my property and I never gave them permission to. OR Logan was okay with it is another possibility or involved.

Whatever happened to all the talk of the couple arguing under the bridge wasn't it...?

There was also talk in the early days as if there were tons of high schoolers there when Kelsey dropped them off and it wasn't that many years ago she had to explain that as not true or she didn't say that or mean it the way it was taken or some such...

Didn't Libby's dad ask a guy he encountered if he had seen anyone and he said no but he had heard a couple arguing under the bridge or something down below (not sure it was THAT bridge)...

I don't really want to revisit all of that as it was done to death for years but this triggered some of these thoughts/ memories...
Yes FSG was the guy who spoke to Libby's Dad. We know who he is I believe. He was the trails guy and he saw the couple under the bridge IIRC.
 
I forget as well but even in my own mind, I don't know that HE was actually seen in Lafayette and that receipt could have been from anyone... Or we don't know if cash, card, owner's recall him, etc. Or did she show enough time to do that, get back and more. Then there was the "dump" run. I really worry about my memory these days but here you are doing the sama. These huge cases like Daybell and this one with sooo much it gets hard when one follows them all and reads all and time lapses and the get quiet, etc.
The dump run was about midday. I think he then went to Lafayette, lunch and a beer or two and then to the Tropical fish store getting home about 6.
 
Yes FSG was the guy who spoke to Libby's Dad. We know who he is I believe. He was the trails guy and he saw the couple under the bridge IIRC.
Refresh me, it took me a minute to get FSG but then I did, flannel shirt guy, what do you mean by trail guy, that DNR guy or another park guy because a lot of that is starting to come back to me but not all...
 

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