LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
He has a receipt from the tropical fish store in Lafayette that day at 5.21 pm. What makes you so sure he was involved? He is too tall for BG.

Yes she could have but why would she put on Libby's clothes?

That timeline is very suspect. I forget how it all fits together, but the "It's a Crime" videos explain it all.

I think KK set up a meeting with them under the Anthony Shots account. RL was the one on the bridge who corralled them to go down the hill. Waiting below were others, KK being one, RA may have been one of them too.
 
RL's fish timeline was a lie. That's been proven.



If he was trying to cover them he did a very poor job. From footage from the bottom of the hill taken at a different time there are a lot of dead leaves on the ground. Also, why set it up in a particular way, if it didn't mean any thing?
I don't know that I believe either hat he was trying to cover them. He MAY have been and have just started and was doing it in such a way to just look natural in the elements. Meaning starting to criss cross different sized sticks but never finished. Was there any sn*w cover left in Indiana that Feb? Can't recall off the top of my head, thinking not, there was none in the bridge picks I don't think...

Anyhow I think what he was doing had meaning to him in some sick way. I also think there was something about these two girls to him, something he did not like or that they represented to him or something he sickly DID like but in a perverted way. I think this man is an SK or would have been. He also could have been trying to point to Os or some sacrificial type of group. However, I just don't see anything that proves that. The tree looks nothing like a clear F to me. And what most construe as horns on Abby, I keep thinking maybe a halo...? It's hard to ignore that on Libby the branches make a V almost highlight her private area, we haven't discussed it but surely I'm not the only one that sees that? I have ONLY seen the stick figure type representations NOT any photos.

There isn't any way we can think like this perverted severely twisted type but I do have thoughts and try to figure what he was getting at or thought... I keep wondering if he saw Abby as a little girl and Libby as an older bad girl so to speak. Maybe he didn't like what he saw as Abby acting older with a bf and pal-ing around with Libby. Maybe he flt if she was going to act older like Libby that she needed to wear Libby's clothes... WHAT am I thinking? I DO NOT KNOW, no reason for it really but I LOOK at these girls and I see naive children and yet Abby had a bf and Libby was talking with the Shotz profile, etc. Yes, it is an age where we all start getting the interest in boys and trying to figure things out (and it gets younger and younger I know) but of the two, particularly Abby looks like a pretty young little girl yet. And to a twisted mind with maybe hatred of females and a sick desire for them at the same time...? I am so far off base and don't know what I am thinking, see can't think like them, they are too deep into it and too warped and don't think normally.

I am going off the weird things many SKs have done, tons of them. Posing, moving, displaying their victims, painting their faces, keeping mementos/souvenirs, trying to make one perfect one out of parts of all (wasn't there someone like that??), Wearing their clothes and mimicking their deaths himself didn't Dennis Rader?

Which brings me to WHERE has @Mel70 been??? Should we be worried? Has she been in the basement, I haven't been in there even to pop and drop, I barely get ten minutes or so a day on the case threads lately. Usually if around she pops into the cases and haven't seen a sign of her. Has anyone who had been on more than I???
 
interesting ^

^ staging a crime scene (misdirection) (or messaging)

^ disagree here b/c the O guys include Libby's bf's dad - a patch-carrying Odonist. Probably how the O's landed on POI list.

When the evidence is disclosed as to the crime scene(s) and cause of death things will be more clear. We can hope, anyway.
If injuries did not match crime scene blood evidence ... did they search/find a 2nd crime scene?

Wondering why they didn't have a canine team out that night? Dogs would have found the crime scene very quickly.
Inexperienced/unprepared LE messed up - should have called for a canine team and let them work all night.
If it was kids 8 and 9; they'd have called the dogs. The cops assumed the teens were being teens ... and would show up in the AM and get grounded for months.

As for RA:

I think the teen babysitter girl witness knows who she saw; BG's odd response to her hello - made her uncomfortable. She knows his relative height. We'll see, but there's a chance she'll be the star of this case. She should prove compelling. It was her JOB that day to protect the kids she was with.

Via babysitter and Libby's phone, we can piece together that BG went to the bridge not once, but twice. BG was in a surly mood (moods suggest anxiety).
That's the behavior of someone waiting for/meeting someone.

RA tells cops he went to the bridge and platform and sat on the bench to watch his phone. RA felt he should report the platform. Felt he should report the bench. Felt he should report he was on his phone. Why mention the phone? And the bench. And the platform? ... because he knew people saw him do those things. I think it's odd to specifically recall (years and years later?) that "he was watching a stock ticker".

What was RA reading on the phone? (Does RA have stock to watch?)

LE has (likely) settled on the snapchat killer theory. How will they prove it?

The RA timeline matches the kidnapping from the bridge. But does the timeline match the mechanics from there on, all that was necessary to arrive at the resulting crime scene? Mr. Def Attny, walk us through the kidnapping, location movement, undressing, dressing, murder, staging, leaving scene, returning to car, clean up, etc..
I think it VERY possible RA meant to point towards Os or any such group and that he years later is doing the same thing, I'm sure they all heard too of the rumors and knew about them back when. RA may well have known even about Abby's bf and the dad before he killed the girls. He could also BE an O.

The next part where you disagree, I'm not sure how your comments about Abby's bf's dad relate to what I meant. I was simply saying three very strong things tie RA, Kline and Logan to the area. RA was there as was his casing. RL lived there and so was very familiar and it was near his property, and Kline had planned to meet Libby there. What places any O there at all or a likelihood they could have been, even the bf's dad? Nothing that I know of.

Good points about the second crime scene, there almost has to be one even if nearby or far because IF defense is accurate, Abby somehow had no blood on her in places one would expect or the clothes of Libby's she was wearing....

They didn't spend all night even looking for the girls. I think it was likely assumed/hoped they just went off, being teens PLUS dark would fall early and I'm not surprised no dogs were called in which likely would have had to come from somewhere else, they didn't KNOW anything big was wrong yet as it was just being realized and unfolding they were missing in little ol' Delphi from a rural type trail area (although close to town)... I don't doubt there was also some thought of they were TWO so when it comes to abduction, you think safety in numbers, the buddy system and yeah, they were teens.

Good points on mention of phone, bench, etc. because he knew he was seen and didn't want to get caught in lies right off and that easy. Even admitting to clothing he wore and more, same reason.

I'm going to guess there is some truth to the fact he follows stock ticker or has an app for it etc. for the very same reason, not that anyone saw him doing it but he probably DID do it and knew his phone activity if asked for would show it or something on that order. I don't see him as a stock type but who knows, his rural thing and guns don't fit with pharmacy tech real easily for me either. NOT saying he couldn't be both, just not something I'd guess on a quiz if we didn't know. but we do know.

So he DID have his phone with him that day......? I tend to forget that... This case isn't as nearly as many years out as LISK and look at that one...

There is a LOT we don't know that they DO. It may SOUND all minor and I've said it before but I want to know all about at least that DAY. Where was he supposed to be? Where was he the rest of the day? Was he to be at work, had day off, just got done, what? Where was wife? Where was daughter? When did he get home? How did he appear? What did he do when he got home? Or was he missing for hours past when this happened? Etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.
 
If this is a sicko-CSAM killer; killer may have played humiliating dressing/undressing games with them at gunpoint. Abby got dressed in Libby's clothes b/c a gun told her to. Maybe Abby was put to work moving Libby's body and moving sticks - it was cold out - he let her put on Libby's clothes. The girls weren't necessarily killed in the same place, same moment. JMHO and shame on me for even thinking this through. I'm giving myself time out. :shakinghead:
That's where I have basically ALWAYS been with this case, even before Allen's arrest... The clothing and all else just adds to it now. Cements it even more for me. This smacks entirely of such, NOT of something like Os.
 
The dog thing I think can be explained by Delphi being so remote. Not every PD has cadaver dogs. The closest PD with cadaver dogs may have been hours away. At that time nobody thought they were dead, just missing.
Agree. I'd also add likely the same with search dogs and that night they really had no reason to think they needed cadaver dogs, I am sure there was a LOT of ope still the girls were alive.
 
Keegan Kline: She says that KK failed a polygraph question about whether or not he killed the girls.


His failure fits with the meeting planned with Libby, the Shotz thing, the drop box and RA and Kline being a part of all together and the pedo ring thing. Whether Kline let RA have THIS one or the group did OR whether RA simply knew of the girls through this, etc., Kline could know the dropbox, he himself, the Shotz thing put RA there and then yeah he too is "responsible" for the girls death or he was there or was supposed to be, etc., etc.

I haven't let the Kline or pedo thing go but I have not jumped on board with the Os. There just isn't enough reason to and too much doesn't work. You seem to be struggling with all of the possibilities no?
 
Nobody saw anyone else except Bridge Guy..
That doesn't mean someone couldn't have been down the hill. It doesn't even mean someone couldn't have been down the hill since earlier that day. They weren't killed on the bridge or on the trail. Even if Logan was NOT home... I grew up rural and actually right now I have people using my trail at my property and I never gave them permission to. OR Logan was okay with it is another possibility or involved.

Whatever happened to all the talk of the couple arguing under the bridge wasn't it...?

There was also talk in the early days as if there were tons of high schoolers there when Kelsey dropped them off and it wasn't that many years ago she had to explain that as not true or she didn't say that or mean it the way it was taken or some such...

Didn't Libby's dad ask a guy he encountered if he had seen anyone and he said no but he had heard a couple arguing under the bridge or something down below (not sure it was THAT bridge)...

I don't really want to revisit all of that as it was done to death for years but this triggered some of these thoughts/ memories...
 
If they approached from Ron Logan's property they wouldn't have to go over the bridge.
Like I said not so many days ago like a deer drive/a hunt... Backwards to that in that in that a group pushes through an area to drive a deer to one sole shooter usually or two but here one guy gets and herds the girls and gets them going and it would explain other than just gun control why they couldn't get away. A few others were spread out waiting to herd and corner even if they took off running...? I don't like the word her d in relation to the victims but use it because that's what the real animals would have been doing basically.

I don't know that I lean this way though. There would be prints and much more BUT then many searchers trampled the area that night so who would know and it isn't like it was a secured area ever basically...
 
I didn't say he covered them but he was trying to dress them after he killed them. Perhaps he was ashamed of what he had done. His recent demeanour and weight loss sure looks like a guilty and troubled man and he has confessed. He is in a personal hell IMO.

Have you got a link re the fish timeline? I am pretty sure he wasn't home because they knocked on his door to get permission to search his land but he wasn't back till after 6 IIRC.
The defense claims the killer was trying to dress them after and that one man couldn't have done it and not gotten blood on him, them, had time, etc. wasn't it? For me I don't know that I know well enough to believe HE tried to dress them and didn't make her dress BUT again per defense that can't be because of bleeding out, already dead I guess.

The thing is in most cases prosecution mostly keeps its mouth shut while defense plants all this stuff even in court filings BUT for all we know they could blow the defense claim of this out of the water or their expert could...
 
I'm not sure. RA could have been one of them, I don't know. I'm sure RL was BG.
I'm not fresh on it but watched it back when she put it out and I'm pretty sure it was discussed here by us. I don't for the life of me remember it all and am not going to rewatch as I just can't but I remember thinking she had good points but wasn't sold either totally. I have entertained it back when and even before she did the video. I never ruled him out as being BG but I just don't feel that he is. If he is and is chasing them down to someone else why would they send the oldest guy that lives on the other end to go around and do all this physical part etc.? So many reasons. I really think he is/was too tall. I could see him on his end possibly... Unless you think he did it alone, it really doesn't make sense to me for quite a few reasons...

I don't put ANY store at all into one or two saying no doubt that is Logan meaning anything. That guy could be my ex and in fact I only ever shared this with Mel but it crossed my mind many a time for no real reason than that is many a midwestern man down to the walk and mannerisms. Just now it crossed my mind that it could be my first ex, many decades back, my kid's dad. We KNOW how many people almost all of us here and elsewhere thought it was each time a new person was arrested for a pedo crime or anything else. That video and pics aren't CLEAR enough to be certain, however, the people who SAW him for real, now that's a different story and taking all that and a bullet casing and RA himself placing himself there, THAT changes it and nothing to me even height says that isn't RA on the bridge. Round face, nose, all of it. Every bit.

I WONDER if there is better voice match, better enhanced video etc. than we have been shown. They aren't going to say so if so. And defense would know by now but they ARE NOT going to share anything that is against their client...
 
Hate to say it, but there's the possibility that Abby undressed, then re-dressed herself under duress.
There's the possibility both were made to undress and more under duress. The redress depends on if one believes what the defense says. I haven't read the defense entire thing past a few pages of the intro but apparently redress had to happen after dead but not sure that's true but I guess their point is if he then slashed the throat (wan['t it? i HATE these details) she would have bled all over the clothes she had on. So what is your tihinking? How could he have killed Abby after her dressing and avoid that?
 
He has a receipt from the tropical fish store in Lafayette that day at 5.21 pm. What makes you so sure he was involved? He is too tall for BG.

Yes she could have but why would she put on Libby's clothes?
Ordered to. Or they were the ones he threw at her and ordered her to put on or that were nearest, etc.

I'm sorry but if you were a naked vulnerable young teen at some sicko's mercy, you are going to be some traumatized by it all and what he has done that you are going to, if allowed to dress even rather than ordered to, put on wahtever you frantically and in shock (worse) you can manage to grab and get on to cover yourself.

There is every reason, or many, if she put them on why that may be. IF she put them on, defense said perp did....
 
So RL isn't BG then? You think he just came to the scene from his property?
I've already asked him if he thinks RL drove and parked at the old CPS and went in from the opposite way etc. when he could have just came to the scene from his property. I don't know that he
has answered, I am still playing catch up. But clearly the one thing he is sure of is BG is RL.
I think Linda's videos have a lot to do with it.
 
There's the possibility both were made to undress and more under duress. The redress depends on if one believes what the defense says. I haven't read the defense entire thing past a few pages of the intro but apparently redress had to happen after dead but not sure that's true but I guess their point is if he then slashed the throat (wan['t it? i HATE these details) she would have bled all over the clothes she had on. So what is your tihinking? How could he have killed Abby after her dressing and avoid that?
Brain bleed?
Internal bleed?
Gravity; she bled downhill from her neck wound. (abby "took a long time to die".)
I dunno.

I'm more concerned about how they got from one side of creek to the other, and why there's been thinking about 2 crime scenes; not just one.
(and that doesn't included the 3rd crime scene of the kidnapping).
 
Sorry about that. It's dark. I know.

IMO, this crime was planned, BG was prepared, movements likely very intentional ... and it just makes sense (when sussing things out) to "wear the hat" of the person in control.

I think BG appears overdressed and to have a belly b/c that's where he carried/wore a change of clothes. If one witness saw beige, it's b/c he brought beige with him. BG may not have a big belly. For what it's worth.

All just MOO.
BG is overdressed. It's not "macho" for a midwest man to wear a coat on such a day. Just a hooded sweatshirt you may not be razzed about too much. He'd be dressed at least as lightly as the girls and even they had to be encouraged to take a sweatshirt or jacket by Kelsey. He also knew he'd e expending energy, dress light you will be working up a sweat. I've seen it my entire life. THIS is when men would more likely be wearing a T shirt and jeans, you know we are northerners we can take the cold, above zero is SUMMER.... Kind of macho thinking. I'm telling all this is fact! Even us women would do similar although probably have a sweatshirt ready just as Kelsey suggested to the girls. Not a coat and all the sh*t this man had on.

I agree this was PLANNED too.
 
I don't know that I believe either hat he was trying to cover them. He MAY have been and have just started and was doing it in such a way to just look natural in the elements. Meaning starting to criss cross different sized sticks but never finished. Was there any sn*w cover left in Indiana that Feb? Can't recall off the top of my head, thinking not, there was none in the bridge picks I don't think...

Anyhow I think what he was doing had meaning to him in some sick way. I also think there was something about these two girls to him, something he did not like or that they represented to him or something he sickly DID like but in a perverted way. I think this man is an SK or would have been. He also could have been trying to point to Os or some sacrificial type of group. However, I just don't see anything that proves that. The tree looks nothing like a clear F to me. And what most construe as horns on Abby, I keep thinking maybe a halo...? It's hard to ignore that on Libby the branches make a V almost highlight her private area, we haven't discussed it but surely I'm not the only one that sees that? I have ONLY seen the stick figure type representations NOT any photos.

There isn't any way we can think like this perverted severely twisted type but I do have thoughts and try to figure what he was getting at or thought... I keep wondering if he saw Abby as a little girl and Libby as an older bad girl so to speak. Maybe he didn't like what he saw as Abby acting older with a bf and pal-ing around with Libby. Maybe he flt if she was going to act older like Libby that she needed to wear Libby's clothes... WHAT am I thinking? I DO NOT KNOW, no reason for it really but I LOOK at these girls and I see naive children and yet Abby had a bf and Libby was talking with the Shotz profile, etc. Yes, it is an age where we all start getting the interest in boys and trying to figure things out (and it gets younger and younger I know) but of the two, particularly Abby looks like a pretty young little girl yet. And to a twisted mind with maybe hatred of females and a sick desire for them at the same time...? I am so far off base and don't know what I am thinking, see can't think like them, they are too deep into it and too warped and don't think normally.

I am going off the weird things many SKs have done, tons of them. Posing, moving, displaying their victims, painting their faces, keeping mementos/souvenirs, trying to make one perfect one out of parts of all (wasn't there someone like that??), Wearing their clothes and mimicking their deaths himself didn't Dennis Rader?

Which brings me to WHERE has @Mel70 been??? Should we be worried? Has she been in the basement, I haven't been in there even to pop and drop, I barely get ten minutes or so a day on the case threads lately. Usually if around she pops into the cases and haven't seen a sign of her. Has anyone who had been on more than I???
FYI: mel's last post was October 9th. So, it's been 9 days. Goodness, we've been through a war since she last posted.
 
That timeline is very suspect. I forget how it all fits together, but the "It's a Crime" videos explain it all.

I think KK set up a meeting with them under the Anthony Shots account. RL was the one on the bridge who corralled them to go down the hill. Waiting below were others, KK being one, RA may have been one of them too.
I can go with this one to a point although still why put the oldest man on the bridge, etc. when the girls wee expecting Shotz possibly. And the older and having to corral them, control them AND get down the hill, etc.?

So are you now off the Os and back to the pedos? I get entetaining all, I do as well to a point, I just haven't added the O thing.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,492
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom