UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson killed in Midtown Manhattan by masked gunman in December 2024

Cousin Dupree said:
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This might be the most weirdly produced thing I've ever seen. I was taking it at face value and of course the man should be charged with first degree and quite possibly terrorism but as I finished it and then read a handful of comments, it's entirely political.

As far as the production, we have Mr. Rapid Speed with the questions and then Mr. Average Speed with the answers and it is pretty clear the two aren't actually talking to each other.

But guess what, I did watch it only to find out all that. I went into it not having a clue.

The comments alone give it away though which I looked at after.
 
Imo this was pretty good, not a big fan generally but the guest was good and all pretty fair and balanced and interesting.

 
This article states the the suspect's mother called NYPD because she recognised her son. This was the day before he was spotted in Altoona.

"Law enforcement sources told ABC News that Mangione's mother spoke with a task force of FBI agents and New York Police Department detectives one day before her son's arrest on Dec. 9.

That conversation followed a tip the FBI received from the police in San Francisco, where Mangione's mother filed the missing persons report.


RELATED: Defense fund established by supporters of suspected CEO killer Luigi Mangione tops $100K

The tip from SFPD was based on physical appearance and Mangione's mother, in her conversation with the Joint Violent Crimes Task Force last Sunday, indicated the person in the surveillance photos circulated by the NYPD could be her son, the sources said.

The task force was still working on the information the mother and San Francisco Police Department provided when Mangione, 26, was arrested in Altoona."


6abc.com

Luigi Mangione's mom indicated to FBI that CEO killing suspect photos could be her son: sources

Mangione's mother spoke with FBI agents and NYPD detectives, the day before his arrest, indicating surveillance photos being circulated at the time could be her son.
6abc.com 6abc.com
 
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Tresir said:
This article states the the suspect's mother called NYPD because she recognised her son. This was the day before he was spotted in Altoona.

"Law enforcement sources told ABC News that Mangione's mother spoke with a task force of FBI agents and New York Police Department detectives one day before her son's arrest on Dec. 9.

That conversation followed a tip the FBI received from the police in San Francisco, where Mangione's mother filed the missing persons report.


RELATED: Defense fund established by supporters of suspected CEO killer Luigi Mangione tops $100K

The tip from SFPD was based on physical appearance and Mangione's mother, in her conversation with the Joint Violent Crimes Task Force last Sunday, indicated the person in the surveillance photos circulated by the NYPD could be her son, the sources said.

The task force was still working on the information the mother and San Francisco Police Department provided when Mangione, 26, was arrested in Altoona."


6abc.com

Luigi Mangione's mom indicated to FBI that CEO killing suspect photos could be her son: sources

Mangione's mother spoke with FBI agents and NYPD detectives, the day before his arrest, indicating surveillance photos being circulated at the time could be her son.
6abc.com 6abc.com
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One reason I usually don't follow certain types of cases are because in short order, one political side or another blasts in and tries to use such things. And of course it already is going on here.

Whether it's this issue or that, or whatever they can, guns, race, hate crime, you name it. They get so out of control that they are not discussed sanely sometimes. Because they are played. Groups come in, etc.

I mean I don't even want to go there or talk of it.

In this one, I like most saw the case from the beginning but already it's getting beyond out there.

But there are always sane ones too to watch. Who wade through the b.s.

Any of these crimes at their core come down to the crime and the person that did it, regardless.

This guy hunted and stalked apparently and then killed his target and was going to go on and kill more, imo.

He is not some freaking hero.

I trust and believe you know me well enough to know I am talking to the general subject matter, not toward you.

There's so much more to come here yet imo. Like here and his mom thinking such.

John Kelly is a very sane watch on this.

People immediately, some anyhow out there, immediately jumped on a ship that he actually cares and is trying to change health care, etc. Bull, imo. Does THAT need to be changed? You bet. Was that his intent or was it to be a hero, gain notice, etc...

My daughter and I had a pretty good discussion the other night about this. And she told me something I had always told my kids. And it was nice to see it stuck and she always thinks of it or is aware of it. Not going to share it here but it relates to attn seeking and how when one loses that attn. A bit deeper than that but this guy again is nothing special, no American hero.

I will also repeat to all, it's great to get on the health care stuff, people should band together, change is needed, but the way many jumped on this and weren't doing anything prior or trying to says IT ALL. He isn't a savior. He is a cold blooded murderer.
 
Not my fave channel but the guest knew his sh*t.

And brings some sanity.

Lots of takeaways but one that I did not know was that to me intentional planned murder is first degree but I gather in NY state it is not.

And a bunch of other things. And some good explanation of a lot going on.

 
This "kid" needs to not be made a hero.

This is what it is, but take a listen. He has had a privileged life.

 
It is pretty "canned" though and "produced",

Like the one I watched earlier someone else linked on another case.
 
Just came across this. There's no doubt that this conversation has to be had, but the reason why it has come to the top of the agenda must be ignored. IMO.




THE VIEWS EXPRESSED BY CONTRIBUTORS ARE THEIR OWN AND NOT THE VIEW OF THE HILL​

​

The deadly cost of insurance denials in America’s healthcare system ​


BY SHRAVANI DURBHAKULA, OPINION CONTRIBUTOR - 12/22/24 11:00 AM ET​

dots-icon.svg
​

​

​

Luigi Mangione’s alleged killing of UnitedHealthcare CEO Brian Thompson has sent waves through the medical community. This horrific act of violence, while tragic and inexcusable, forces us to confront an uncomfortable reality: frustration with the unchecked power of publicly traded insurance companies has reached a boiling point, for patients and doctors alike.​

As a pain management physician, I deeply empathize with the anguish of denied care. While my patients desperately seek relief, insurance companies reject treatments that are evidence based, cataloging them as “unnecessary” or “experimental.” They use opaque and unreliable artificial intelligence algorithms to deny care and rely on the medical record notes to contextualize the humanity of my patients. The process of scheduling appeals with insurance representatives or “peer” reviewers is frequently a time-consuming exercise in futility. Decision-making “peers” can be individuals without expertise in the relevant medical field, incentivized to deny care. The appeals process can take months, leaving patients to suffer while the clock ticks on their quality of life. ​

The stakes are not just financial — they’re profoundly human. Insurance denials often force doctors to fall back on older, cheaper options that are less effective and carry higher risks. For pain patients, this can mean a return to opioids, which insurers readily cover. And while opioids are reasonable in certain circumstances, they also have well-documented side effects and an established role in America’s addiction crisis. When insurers lag behind medical evidence, they not only undermine patient care but perpetuate public health emergencies like the opioid crisis. ​

Insurers argue that denials are necessary to control costs and prevent overutilization. But when denials become routine, when they disregard medical evidence, and when they disproportionately impact vulnerable populations, they cease to be a tool for efficiency and become a mechanism of harm. ​

When a patient qualifies for Original Medicare, I am relieved, as it is subject to stricter regulatory oversight as compared to private insurers. In my specialty, it can at times more reliably cover newer, innovative treatments, such as peripheral nerve stimulation. This advanced procedure involves implanting a tiny wire near a nerve for just eight weeks to rewire the brain and spinal cord’s pain signals. Remarkably, even after the wire is removed, the treatment can continue to provide lasting, life-changing pain relief. ​

Such was the case for one of my patients, Mr. JA, a decorated U.S. Army colonel and military veteran who had undergone more than 26 surgeries, and who was suffering from chronic neck pain, migraines and hand numbness. After receiving nerve stimulation therapy, he was able to completely eliminate his pain medication and regain a sense of normalcy — a transformation that would have been unlikely under private insurance. Unfortunately, for many others, particularly younger patients or those without traditional/government-run Medicare plans, access to such life-changing treatments is frequently out of reach, sacrificed at the altar of corporate profit. ​

​

Insurers’ unchecked power ​

Commercial health insurers wield enormous influence, often prioritizing profits over patients. UnitedHealthcare reported over $20 billion in profit in 2023, yet patients continue to face barriers to care. Insurers argue that denials prevent overuse of services, and while there is truth in the fact that medical overspending can result in patient harm while impacting annual economic burden and taxpayers, when cost-cutting trumps medical necessity, the system fails everyone except the shareholders. ​

Doctors have limited recourse. Our clinical expertise is too often overridden by algorithms and cost analyses. Patients, meanwhile, are confused and disheartened, as they have seemingly few solutions but endless medical bills. This compromises trust in the healthcare system and breaks down what should be a sacred doctor-patient relationship. ​

A way forward ​

Recent events are an opportunity for President-elect Trump and the new administration to re-evaluate the unchecked power of the commercial insurance industry. We need: ​

​

​
  1. Transparency in denials: Insurers must publicly disclose data on claim denials, including reasons and outcomes of appeals, as well as their use of AI to deny claims. Sunlight is the required disinfectant.

  1. Independent review panels: Every denial of care should be reviewed by independent boards of medical experts with relevant specialty training, ensuring decisions are grounded in the most up-to-date evidence rather than old guidelines and profits motives.
  2. National standards: A federal framework for claims and appeals would ensure fairness and consistency, overriding the patchwork of state regulations that currently lets insurers exploit loopholes.
Healthcare should heal, not harm. The current system, which allows insurers to dictate care while evading accountability, erodes trust and endangers lives. Reforming these practices is more than just a policy goal. It is a moral imperative.​

Shravani Durbhakula, MD, MPH, MBA, is an academic pain physician and anesthesiologist practicing in Nashville, Tenn. She is the former pain medicine program director at Johns Hopkins School of Medicine and serves on the board of directors of the American Academy of Pain Medicine Foundation.​


​

Copyright 2024 Nexstar Media Inc. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.​
 
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I think it could be an idea to have two threads. One for Mangione and the murder and another one for the Health care and industry issues.
 
That's quite the read. And I did read it, all of it.

First, I am going to say what I have been here, that this guy does not deserve credit and it does not appear to be his motive.

Imo the things really need to be separated. His cold blooded murder and the health insurance industry problems.

Good Lord he probably feels like some major hero the way people are tying the things together.

As far as the article itself, yeah, pretty much true and I've said myself it is really difficult to explain with our system here and its problems and this certainly covers parts of it. There is also incentivation as to what drugs to provide and has been for decades and big pharm is another issue. It is all horrible but there's a lot more to it.

It is a good article in that it covers a lot of it, and anyone who works in the industry knows a lot of the regulation and paperwork nightmares. They make it an intentionally difficult system to navigate when a patient only wants care and is often unable to even navigate it all themselves at a time they are in a very hard time and ill for instance.

I've said a few times it is definitely a subject people should have been yelling about before now even, but again this guy does not deserve credit for the talk of it now. I mean where WAS everyone on this issue?

I'm dealing with it myself right now, and it probably is not going to end up well for me. The sheer stupidity and rules and mine is under a work comp thing and what another morass of a mess. Now I have two providers which is a law in this state you can only have one. Like I knew (not) and yet was referred and ended up in such. It is an absolute nightmare and too much to explain, when all I want to do is get better and back to work.

And yes then one reads they profit in the multi billions while patients suffer and need a paycheck and no big bills.

And it is never going to get better amongst a zillion other problems when people stay silent and do nothing about it.

But that does not mean killing someone who is part of it, and at 26 and with a pretty privileged life, glorifying him is asinine and he isn't even old enough to have suffered from all the problems, running around with cash, and you name it and shooting someone from behind and lying in wait.

It was a good opinion piece.

However, he is a cold blooded murderer. The article though did not glorify him and said as much once, at the very beginning.

It is everywhere else the issues are not separated.

I did not even know until yesterday that a planned and intentional murder is not first degree in NY! We don't even know our own laws because of the sh*t that goes on or we don't live in that state,etc., etc. Watched a show on that, and why he is now being charged the way he is. It's just one big hot mess and all changes too right under our noses. Govt., all of it is out of control.

And I'm sorry but some generations don't even have a clue.

And I probably had better leave that right there and stop.
 
I have heard pretty much nothing about the gun that he allegedly 3D "printed" himself - if that is the correct term. What are the laws on that? Are they different in each state too? Should the NY laws even matter if these are federal crimes anyway?
 
This article is two and a half years old and says that 3D printed guns are legal in the US. Is that true?

It says there are full instructions online showing how to do it.

news.sky.com

3D-printed guns are appearing on British streets - and the police are taking notice

3D-printed guns are appearing on the streets of the UK, with the files needed to build the firearms easy to find online. Experts say members of the far right often share instructions about how to make the weapons online in preparation for a so-called race war.
news.sky.com news.sky.com
 
Tresir said:
I have heard pretty much nothing about the gun that he allegedly 3D "printed" himself - if that is the correct term. What are the laws on that? Are they different in each state too? Should the NY laws even matter if these are federal crimes anyway?
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Gun laws do vary by state. These are hard questions to answer but good ones. And I am going to readily admit I don't know all the answers.

My home state is pretty relaxed on gun laws, I mean there is hunter safety but children can hunt with an adult. My grandson's dad is an avid hunter and my grandson has been hunting and shooting since a pretty young age. Quite good at it too. One can buy them a gun even, not sure whether it can be in their name. I've never done much that way and so not real sure. I'm talking WI. There are also conceal and carry laws, both states I'm in allow such but you need a permit I believe in both and a class. Talking more self defense there and pistols. I am no gun expert, my terms might not even be right.

Both are big hunting states, MN and WI. We just finished a bit ago the deer hunting season which is huge in both. Kids go with. It's a major tradition around Thanksgiving. MN is first, their season, then WI's starts. Imo they follow each other so people can hunt in both states and the seasons do not compete.

I know LITTLE about 3D printing, never even seen it, would like to know more. Never done it, seen it, etc. Laws have not kept up with the internet I can say that much.

Isn't he charged both in NY and now federally? The laws matter in NY if he has charges in each. Federal has their own laws. Federal law trumps state law IF they put down a law for all states. That's largely getting ignored some though nowadays by certain states, etc.
For instance, sanctuary cities and illegal immigrants, etc. are illegal by federal law but it gets ignored. First one I think to do that was CA.

Like I said it's kind of hard to answer but they are good questions.

As to the states, here is an example, people will drive from here to North Dakota for cigarettes because they are enough cheaper, it is worth a fairly long trip. Some do such things if close to a border just for gas, as gas prices vary per state, and taxes, same with cigs. Now there's pot, in some states it is legal and in some it is not. Everything is a huge nightmare.

I know CA has some over the top ridiculous laws. A lot of truckers will not even truck there. Over regulated so bad.

But I'm not up on NY's. However I did watch some things and the first degree murder thing was interesting. There has to be an aggravating factor, not just an intentional murder. To me, intentional, planned murder is first degree but I gather there it is not.

Like we tried to explain in Maxwell/Epstein, state is different than federal. This guy whose name I will never say can be charged in both imo. States have their own autonomy over a lot of things and in theory and through the years, that's a good thing usually, but it's changing and imo being abused by some too. Some people move just based over state laws, seriously.

Before I fell and in these last years, I was trying to decide if a buy a home or ever could again, what state I prefer to do it in because it's a long term thing. SS rules vary in each state. One state taxes SS, one does not. Sales tax in MN is far higher than in WI. Politics and freedoms are different in each but politicians can change every few years...

This is long enough but hoping it gives a picture of how it can vary.

And then one can get down to just counties.

MN was ridiculous over the COVID rules, WI much more relaxed. The MN governor's rules made no sense at all.

It's pretty out of control imo. And I get why people are up in arms over this and the health care thing, because it's a morass and a mess and unfair and more. But giving this guy any glory is not right, he's a 26 year old that planned a murder and didn't even have a gripe with him or that company so far as I've heard yet.

Now people come out of the woodwork and say things because I guess there's someone to hide behind and others to hang with while they say it, and no one brave enough to say a word before. Although honestly, I think they are often trolls, etc. in any case but each time real people fall for the sh*t.

This guy is a singular person that committed cold blooded murder. More may be involved. It is interesting he is mad at corporate America since his family is part of such and has owned, country clubs, nursing homes and more.

All of this I guess is just "my opinion piece". I will never combine the two things. You don't kill as an answer and people making him some hero is ridiculous. He IS no different than a terrorist shooter, etc. and imo intended to go on doing these type of things, someone was next imo. Attention as well, and all are sure giving it to him, or many.

My daughter was over a couple of nights ago, and we talked of this some, and I am SO glad she sees it. The things some of the last generations were taught has to be combatted but we are seeing the results for a lot of years now imo.

That's probably as far as I can go, if that's not even too much.

I guess I'd add the advent of the internet seemed to start a lot of things... But now I'm going down a path so will stop.
 
This one also says they are legal. Numbers have at least doubled every year in the 5 years from 2017 to 2022. So we can assume at least 50,000 of them are on the streets by now IMO.

www.standard.co.uk

What are 3D-printed 'ghost' guns and are they legal in the US and UK?

Authorities say the gun found on Luigi Mangione, who has been accused of killing Brian Thompson, was made with the help of a 3D printer
www.standard.co.uk www.standard.co.uk

From the above link -

Are ghost guns outlawed in the US?​

"Building and buying 3D guns is legal at a federal level, however, they are being tightly regulated ever since Joe Biden came into administration.
Since the 1990s, do-it-yourself gun kits have been a popular pastime among gun lovers. However, their use in high-profile shootings has increased since the early 2010s. 3D printers have also been used to build fully functional guns, gun parts and accessories.
Before 2022, gun kits could be sold without serial numbers or being registered and buyers didn’t have to meet minimum age requirements or pass a background check to have one shipped to them.
According to data from the US Department of Justice, 25,785 3D guns were seized in the US in 2022, up from 1,629 in 2017."

So it seems he did not break any gun laws as such, maybe. Unless it's an offence to transport a gun across state lines to commit murder, which i think it would be. You can likely transport guns for hunting, as you describe MN and WI having slightly different hunting seasons so they facilitate that by the sounds of it. However, transporting a gun across state lines to commit murder, as he did, must be a federal offence. IMO.
 
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