Who is the LONG ISLAND SERIAL KILLER? *ARREST JULY 2023*

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Who is the Long Island serial killer? This is a general discussion thread about this terrifying case.


MEMBER'S ONLY DISCUSSION/DOCUMENTS:
https://www.crimewatchers.net/threa...other-sensitive-information.3498/#post-226869
 
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I don't think Asa is excluded here. CB#2. In listening to Soto today, all closeto victim, etc. are suspects until proven otherwise. They had to go with CB on the cases and proof they had on him because he I am guessing was showing signs of heating up again. I do recall a disgusted look or two about Asa from LE in pressers and dismissie attitude toward her b.s. and I don't mean Harrison. I believe it was Tierney. Let's hope there's some hope for the administration in this messed up fricking city and suburbs when it comes to justice rather than politics. Could it? Just for once? I care less about the politics, I care that justice comes above such.
 
I'd doubt it. And the hope doesn't make up for them paying the wife and family of a serial killer, wife's hairs who were found on some, millions of dollars. You agree on the hairs but endorse the Peacock thing.

She is going to be Ms. abiding and loyal wife who was blindsided.

And the fact that that money is helping him even if it is getting him real butter somehow (as he said to Happy Face) is DISGUSTING.

No pics these days. I'm surprised they aren't showing hi wasting away and so skinny like RA. I kind of doubt he is... Pizza leave, the crust, Twinkies yes wife, you don't want me implicating you...

Not at you believe it or not but there's little one can do but I can refuse to watch Peacock. And any smart politician (if there is one) can go to close that such could happen. EVER.

I could live with them getting a million bucks if she suddenly becomes a defendant. I'm sure that with the pressure of being convicted she'd squeal like a pig about a lot of stuff she's been holding back. Like others who were involved in the killigs.
 
I entirely agree, and they are good points.

She may want to be careful not so much that she will say anything in the Peacock thing but yes, if he didn't do it, and she says o, the other hairs are HERS. Think about this too, the ONLY thing that remained after all that time, no other DNA, remains that much could be found from, etc., JUST HAIRS survived it all and I'd say that says a lot...

No one knows at least when they were killed, abduction perhaps between his phone stuff and the date some are known to have last been heard of it probably more solid.

It never dawned on me until last night like I said that she probably doesn't DARE leave him high and dry as she is the alternate perp or a complicit perp. However as you point out, to call him innocent, leave her as the other hair source! Lol.

If you finish Gialcone's show, I am worried though about the case/s as with Harrison gone and new people in place, things seem to have returned to the decades long of problems. They do give Tierney some credit BUT have a lot more to say about it all.
I just had a horrible thought. Did he have a large fridge and freezer in that locked basement room?

What did CB2 think was in that basement? Did she ever go in there or was she not allowed in there? Would you live with someone who had a locked basement no go area? Creepy as f*ck.
 
I can't think of any other time a wife's hair has been mentioned in a case, as part of the evidence. She was far away when the bodies were dumped, but that doesn't mean the victims couldn't have been held in captivity for awhile.

The Peacock documentary may be a good thing. She might slip up and give out some evidence.
Nobody knows when they were dumped though do they? She may have been away when they went missing yeah, but one of the cases she was at a hotel that he came and visited when that one went missing. He could have had them captive in the basement for example. Also I don't think we know how long she was away but if she visited Iceland, I would think those visits were probably a month or so. I don't think we know the half of it yet.
 
I could live with them getting a million bucks if she suddenly becomes a defendant. I'm sure that with the pressure of being convicted she'd squeal like a pig about a lot of stuff she's been holding back. Like others who were involved in the killigs.
Not sure who you mean by others in the plural other than him?

The money is just wrong. She is profiting off the dead victims and the fact she is married to a serial killer and perhaps even is one herself for all we know.

I'd have no problem with her becoming a defendant if warranted. In fact I'd charge her for standing by her man and showing no sympathy for the families in the meantime, not that there is a law against such but I'd make one. Lol. And for profiting off of such.

I imagine her and CB have talked about this and I wonder how. Are they passing notes through the attorney? Or are they one of those couples who never communicated. She at with her cartoons and video games all absorbed and he ate dinner at work and left his crusts from it and then sought out "escorts"...

This woman COULD have gained people's sympathy but instead I think quickly showed who she really is and for me it just makes it even more likely she is involved and not involved, that she KNEW. I agree with having her become a defendant but it doesn't make me agree with the money or Peacock.

What are your laws there in NY? I wonder if anyone has FOIAed for his jail calls if any or visitor's roster... Or can't they get such? Not that they'd probably show much. I don't think Mr. and Mrs. CB are stupid. I wouldn't call them smart but they know how to protect own ass. I wonder how two such clearly self centered greedy individuals lived together? I have never been able to figure such out in life and can only conclude that it is because they get on the same page to a point.

I AM glad she quickly showed her true colors in a way because I felt guilty in the beginning for having an intense dislike of her and it turns out it was warranted and now most out there see her the same way.

We rarely agree as you think almost tall are charged or convicted unfairly but in this one you think her hairs present and other things mean she was involved it seems...?

I sure the heck don't dismiss the idea either.

I find it almost impossible to believe at minimum that she didn't know. All these years, with what her hub's cheating lifestyle is like and dead women in their neighborhood, a killer not caught and these girls SOMEHOW getting his and her hair on them from probably THEIR home is one of the most likely guesses and I just don't buy she never at least wondered or came to figure it was him. That's at MINIMUM. and IF that Vergata story is true, she most definitely knew, was part of SAT there while he did his killing and torturing after chasing the terrified naked girl... If that's true I think it's a glimpse into what probably happened to all of them...

I see no reason LE can't have verified that by now--DID THEY? Even if her cop bf denies it there are other ways and if quite simply there WAS a cop bf for one, is a heck of a start as is the swinging thing and some other details.

I guess my point is that Old Sad Miserable Asa (now rich and not so sad acting and supportive and strong for her hub and the CAMERAS) would have been PRESENT for THAT one. So if they are ignoring it over their attitude and politics and the fact it comes from John Ray, they are missing a GOLDEN opportunity. If THAT can be corroborated, she was there, she knew at least. And that's just one avenue to take a good look at her out of many ways...

I have to say though the retired NYC and area homicide, etc. cops with shows are saying with Harrison gone this has reverted to its politics and they don't have as much faith in are they going to do further work and keep the task force together and keep on it beyond these four women, etc... For years, decades before that we know they didn't and he is the one that brought it and that task force did it and cracked it. They already see the difference and reason to worry with him gone.

Anyhow back to the original, Asa deserves no profit off this even if innocent, you don't profit over the fact you were cluelessly married to an SK and over his victims and their families. She and he are moral less as far as I can see and entirely self gratifying people. Well we know pretty certainly HE IS no doubt but she has pretty much shown her colors as well.

They likely do a lot in tandem. Swinging and perhaps killing together which is why both their hairs are present. He did the hunting.... What was her job...

Clearly I feel no guilt any longer for talking of her this way. In the beginning I couldn't fathom my quick dislike of her but it all bore out...
 
I just had a horrible thought. Did he have a large fridge and freezer in that locked basement room?

What did CB2 think was in that basement? Did she ever go in there or was she not allowed in there? Would you live with someone who had a locked basement no go area? Creepy as f*ck.
Entirely possible and if he did, LE has it. Or I would hope.

No, anyone who has their secrets and a locked room in your own house, etc. and is your spouse, there's something wrong there. My ex was a lot that way, to this day I wonder if he was hiding something more than I came to believe (cheating). I was NEVER okay with it though. You're married and he can jump in your vehicle and you are fine with it, you're normal and you are married but don't ever get in his which was locked even from you as were things inside it and so on. He'd come home and park it way off out of the way and he did the same with things like sheds. As FAR as I know he never killed anyone but NO, it is WEIRD, it is NOT normal, and NO ONE can ignore such or not wonder what the heck is going on or what is being hidden.

This woman even if not involved KNOWS. She knows or knew something was off and for her to say now she gives him the benefit of the doubt that is b.s. It at minimum gave to her things she has seen and wondered of through the years IF not involved herself. She is NOT unsavvy in playing things herself. She knows inside herself at minimum at this point that he did this which also says to me she did all along or at some point at least and excused it again IF not involved herself. She is doing it now in that she knows but is showing support or nonjudgment of him (for reasons, money and her own guilt and actions?).

Yeah, a freezer or whatever. I haven't had never do a lot of time but think of this. Even when she was out of town. Are we really to believe Rex picked up a victim and killed them immediately that night only in his truck, got out the burlap, wrapped, taped whatever and never took them home and got more jollies (sick) off torturing them and for some time, even a day when ideally CB2 and kids were gone? He's got a free playground and NO ONE coming home. I've had no impression they were the type who had friends, visitors or family popping in or dropping by, just the opposite. Unless of course it was an arranged swinging date which is not the same at all.

CB2 has to be the most clueless thing that ever existed OR she knew at minimum. If stupid and loving and gullible with head in sand then this rise from sad and woebegone to profiting off it and standing by her man is amazing and shows the opposite...

Now we don't know a lot about like CA in the Delphi case but I of course don't think much either there of them standing by him, mom or wife AND HE CONFESSED TO THEM. My guess is they were shocked when he was arrested and even though when he confessed they should have taken a different road wife hung up and is still there supporting him and I would guess she couldn't accept the confessions or face it. We can't know but I think this was more likely being blindsided and a refusal to believe or accept he did this. She can't. Was blindsided (i'd hope but then she did delete all that FB period) and she is forcing denial on herself perhaps. What she is NOT DOING is coming out and making movies or documentaries and DISPLAYING her support or RA or making statements through an attorney of her own, etc. and I'd suspect because she knows or senses or just can't totally accept yet he did this and has a need to believe otherwise. This is NOT CB2. Totally different...Entirely different wives I see of two men who did multiple killings allegedly but BOTH supporting....

RA who knows with the mess being made but CB is going away for life imo with little doubt. Asa knows this and sees this... There's no grief there that he will never come home again imo. She is not stricken, she moved and is moving to do for her and so on. Of course we can't see all or know all but I'd say in Delphi more likely RA's mom and wife are thrown for a total loop. And were blindsided. Most likely. And maybe even have those doubts and thoughts he did it, especially after confessing to them, but can't quite go there yet... This is denial and maybe an inability to face it head on and a need to wait and see BUT they don't advertise their support or go making documentaries and so forth, they maybe feel a bit of shame even for "am I dumb" to believe him and so on and have their doubts...? I don't know.

What I do know is that's not the case with CB2. She knows exactly what she is doing and she is not some blindsided reeling woman. Heck she was filing for divorce like the next day almost. She recovered fast in some ways didn't she....... Almost like ready for such...
 
Nobody knows when they were dumped though do they? She may have been away when they went missing yeah, but one of the cases she was at a hotel that he came and visited when that one went missing. He could have had them captive in the basement for example. Also I don't think we know how long she was away but if she visited Iceland, I would think those visits were probably a month or so. I don't think we know the half of it yet.
They can't prove she was far away in all, wasn't it only two? Regardless, yes they don't know when they were killed, when theky were dumped, how long they were kept alive or if they do, we haven't been told. This case was such a late solve, I seriously doubt they know. How can they? THEY CAN have possibly found blood, DNA, etc. in the home and that would show one or more were there. Proving though how long they were kept if at all and when killed is another story.

They could have been kept a day, ten or six months, alive OR dead. Who knows? And Asa wasn't gone that long.

I think with what they have that we know of and the phones, his contact, hair and more, he will be convicted without much issue (although defense will put issues up I'm sure, pretty quiet so far though) BUT they definitely do not know time and date of death and so on, if he picked them up and they were killed right away or he kept them and "toyed" with them, etc. These people are warped. Maybe Asa liked to come in only for a certain part after he had done his hunting and capture... Who the heck knows. They both are creepy as all get out.

I agree. I don't think we know the half of it yet. I do hope they have not halted the investigation and are still full force on it. If Harrison was still there, I wouldn't doubt it but with him gone, I'm less sure we will see that continue.
 
I continually am wondering about the timeline and came across this good one in Wikipedia.


1996

  • February 14, 1996: Karen Vergata last seen.
  • April 20, 1996: Partial remains of Karen Vergata found, Fire Island, New York.
1997

2000

  • 2000: Valerie Mack last seen by family members in spring or summer, Port Republic, New Jersey.
  • November 19, 2000: Partial remains of Valerie Mack found, Manorville, Long Island, New York.
  • Identified in May 2020 see below link.


2003

  • July 2003: Jessica Taylor last seen, Port Authority Bus Terminal, Manhattan, New York.
  • July 26, 2003: Partial remains of Jessica Taylor found, Manorville, Long Island, New York.
2007

  • July 9, 2007: Maureen Brainard-Barnes last seen, Manhattan, New York.
  • July 2007: A friend of Brainard-Barnes's, Sara Karnes, receives a phone call from a man claiming that he had just seen Brainard-Barnes and that she was alive and staying at a "whorehouse in Queens."
2009

  • July 12, 2009: Melissa Barthelemy last seen at her apartment, 1149 Underhill Ave in the Unionport section of the Bronx, New York.
  • July 17, 2009 – August 26, 2009: Amanda Barthelemy, sister of Melissa Barthelemy, receives a series of "vulgar, mocking and insulting" calls from a man using Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone. There are additional calls on July 23, Aug. 5, Aug. 19 and Aug. 26. The caller eventually tells Amanda Barthelemy that her sister is dead.
2010

  • May 2, 2010: Shannan Gilbert makes a panicked phone call to 911 at 4:51am after fleeing a client's house; she bangs on doors of several neighboring houses and disappears, Oak Beach, Long Island, New York.
  • June 6, 2010: Megan Waterman, 22, who had traveled to Long Island from Maine for sex work, last seen at a motel, Hauppauge, New York.
  • September 2, 2010: Amber Lynn Costello last seen at her residence, West Babylon, New York.
  • December 11, 2010: Remains of Melissa Barthelemy found along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, New York.
  • December 13, 2010: Remains of Megan Waterman, Amber Lynn Costello, and Maureen Brainard-Barnes found along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, New York.
2011

  • March 29, 2011: Further partial remains of Jessica Taylor found along Ocean Parkway,Long Island, New York.
  • April 4, 2011: Remains of Valerie Mack, "Asian Male" and "Baby Doe" (the 16-24-month-old daughter of "Peaches") found in brush area along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, New York.
  • April 11, 2011: Further partial remains of "Peaches" / "Jane Doe No. 3" found near Jones Beach State Park, Long Island, New York.
  • April 11, 2011: Further partial remains of Karen Vergata found, Tobay Beach, Long Island, New York.
  • December 13, 2011: Remains of Shannan Gilbert found in a marsh, Oak Beach, Long Island, New York.
2016

  • July 2016: Shannan Gilbert's sister Sarra murders their mother, Mari.
  • December 2016: "Peaches" and "Jane Doe No. 3" positively identified as the same person.
2020

  • May 2020: Police announce forensic identification of formerly unidentified remains of Valerie Mack.
2023

  • July 2023: Rex Heuermann charged in relation to the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, and Amber Costello and named as a suspect in the murder of Maureen Brainard-Barnes.


2024

  • January 2024: Heuermann indicted for murder of Maureen Brainard-Barnes
 
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They can't prove she was far away in all, wasn't it only two? Regardless, yes they don't know when they were killed, when theky were dumped, how long they were kept alive or if they do, we haven't been told. This case was such a late solve, I seriously doubt they know. How can they? THEY CAN have possibly found blood, DNA, etc. in the home and that would show one or more were there. Proving though how long they were kept if at all and when killed is another story.

They could have been kept a day, ten or six months, alive OR dead. Who knows? And Asa wasn't gone that long.

I think with what they have that we know of and the phones, his contact, hair and more, he will be convicted without much issue (although defense will put issues up I'm sure, pretty quiet so far though) BUT they definitely do not know time and date of death and so on, if he picked them up and they were killed right away or he kept them and "toyed" with them, etc. These people are warped. Maybe Asa liked to come in only for a certain part after he had done his hunting and capture... Who the heck knows. They both are creepy as all get out.

I agree. I don't think we know the half of it yet. I do hope they have not halted the investigation and are still full force on it. If Harrison was still there, I wouldn't doubt it but with him gone, I'm less sure we will see that continue.
We need to know who the cop boyfriend was who picked up Karen and said it was ok to leave her and they were just playing a game. This was in '96, so did the woman who gave the statement to John Ray name him? That guy needs to be outed. I remember seeing his initials and it wasnt the guy who went to jail for beating up an informant who stole stuff from his car.
 
Ok so that timeline has come in handy already. The four he has been charged with were all found in Dec 2010, Melissa on the 11th and the other three on the 13th. Two of them, he made calls to their friends and relatives. These are the dates they went missing -


  • July 9, 2007: Maureen Brainard-Barnes last seen, Manhattan, New York.
  • July 2007: A friend of Brainard-Barnes's, Sara Karnes, receives a phone call from a man claiming that he had just seen Brainard-Barnes and that she was alive and staying at a "whorehouse in Queens."

  • July 12, 2009: Melissa Barthelemy last seen at her apartment, 1149 Underhill Ave in the Unionport section of the Bronx, New York.
  • July 17, 2009 – August 26, 2009: Amanda Barthelemy, sister of Melissa Barthelemy, receives a series of "vulgar, mocking and insulting" calls from a man using Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone. There are additional calls on July 23, Aug. 5, Aug. 19 and Aug. 26. The caller eventually tells Amanda Barthelemy that her sister is dead.

  • June 6, 2010: Megan Waterman, 22, who had traveled to Long Island from Maine for sex work, last seen at a motel, Hauppauge, New York.

  • September 2, 2010: Amber Lynn Costello last seen at her residence, West Babylon, New York.
ETA you know what reading about this call that a friend of Maureen received that said she was in a whorehouse? The call supposedly made by Peter Hackett about Shannon Gilbert to her family saying she was in a home for fallen women, which he later denied making. Maybe that caller wasn't Hackett but was actually CB.
 
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I just came across this DM article about John Ray's symposium. A couple of storys about CB encounters that I had not heard before.

 
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I continually am wondering about the timeline and came across this good one in Wikipedia.


1996

  • February 14, 1996: Karen Vergata last seen.
  • April 20, 1996: Partial remains of Karen Vergata found, Fire Island, New York.
1997

2000

  • 2000: Valerie Mack last seen by family members in spring or summer, Port Republic, New Jersey.
  • November 19, 2000: Partial remains of Valerie Mack found, Manorville, Long Island, New York.
2003

  • July 2003: Jessica Taylor last seen, Port Authority Bus Terminal, Manhattan, New York.
  • July 26, 2003: Partial remains of Jessica Taylor found, Manorville, Long Island, New York.
2007

  • July 9, 2007: Maureen Brainard-Barnes last seen, Manhattan, New York.
  • July 2007: A friend of Brainard-Barnes's, Sara Karnes, receives a phone call from a man claiming that he had just seen Brainard-Barnes and that she was alive and staying at a "whorehouse in Queens."
2009

  • July 12, 2009: Melissa Barthelemy last seen at her apartment, 1149 Underhill Ave in the Unionport section of the Bronx, New York.
  • July 17, 2009 – August 26, 2009: Amanda Barthelemy, sister of Melissa Barthelemy, receives a series of "vulgar, mocking and insulting" calls from a man using Melissa Barthelemy's cell phone. There are additional calls on July 23, Aug. 5, Aug. 19 and Aug. 26. The caller eventually tells Amanda Barthelemy that her sister is dead.
2010

  • May 2, 2010: Shannan Gilbert makes a panicked phone call to 911 at 4:51am after fleeing a client's house; she bangs on doors of several neighboring houses and disappears, Oak Beach, Long Island, New York.
  • June 6, 2010: Megan Waterman, 22, who had traveled to Long Island from Maine for sex work, last seen at a motel, Hauppauge, New York.
  • September 2, 2010: Amber Lynn Costello last seen at her residence, West Babylon, New York.
  • December 11, 2010: Remains of Melissa Barthelemy found along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, New York.
  • December 13, 2010: Remains of Megan Waterman, Amber Lynn Costello, and Maureen Brainard-Barnes found along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, New York.
2011

  • March 29, 2011: Further partial remains of Jessica Taylor found along Ocean Parkway,Long Island, New York.
  • April 4, 2011: Remains of Valerie Mack, "Asian Male" and "Baby Doe" (the 16-24-month-old daughter of "Peaches") found in brush area along Ocean Parkway, Long Island, New York.
  • April 11, 2011: Further partial remains of "Peaches" / "Jane Doe No. 3" found near Jones Beach State Park, Long Island, New York.
  • April 11, 2011: Further partial remains of Karen Vergata found, Tobay Beach, Long Island, New York.
  • December 13, 2011: Remains of Shannan Gilbert found in a marsh, Oak Beach, Long Island, New York.
2016

  • July 2016: Shannan Gilbert's sister Sarra murders their mother, Mari.
  • December 2016: "Peaches" and "Jane Doe No. 3" positively identified as the same person.
2020

  • May 2020: Police announce forensic identification of formerly unidentified remains of Valerie Mack.
2023

  • July 2023: Rex Heuermann charged in relation to the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Barthelemy, and Amber Costello and named as a suspect in the murder of Maureen Brainard-Barnes.


2024

  • January 2024: Heuermann indicted for murder of Maureen Brainard-Barnes
There's a lot we could look at with this put together there. I noted for the most part the ones who have approximate dates of going missing are mostly summer...Next thought on that was kids out of school, Asa and kids away on vacation.

That's just one thing. Vergata's date is a bit of an aberration but IF John Ray's lady is right, that was a different kind of thing and that is one that PLACES Asa there. She was also long before he/they maybe changed the game with other victims. That one was a singer thing with others who if not witnessing the murder (again IF that's what happened and if true), they saw things... AND brought Vergata TO THEM.

That also popped another thought just on saying that. Where were the two KIDS? These were typical school days/month. I was so instantly curious I googled it. It was a Wednesday, school night. I mean there could have been on school/blizzard, sn*w day or two and been at grandma's but that's doubtful. If that bad where already knowing no school next day, they wouldn't have traveled to swing there and so on. I could look up the weather but not going to do so because it's farfeteched. Were the kids in bed, oh now I recall, Asa was pregnant with their only bio child so only the son with disabilities would have been there. Now THAT is interesting... Asa marries Rex and has someone to support her and son and of course gets pregnant once. She marries Rex, has a kid but they are allegedly both huge swingers...

What did they do, think the boy too young to get what was going on even if he saw a naked fearful woman running around the outside of the home in the winter? Or did they put him to bed with a little extra something to sleep well...

Of course that is all IF this is true...How young would he have been? I could but not going to look for that either. Put in ten plus hours today and another tomorrow and then two more nines.Then too a rare day off for something family related and finish out the pay week on Saturday next with more long hours.

Anyhow I kind of went off the timeline thing but I think we could do a few things with this list. Separate the going missing times or best known from the found news. Maybe areas. And some other differences OR likenesses.

We've all read it all and I know you have too but I get wanting a timeline like this as I can hardly keep the victims straight, along with the years, who was found where and so on. Too bad it coudln't be pinned when something gets too far back, I'm not great at knowing how to find it plus I'll forget it exists as we wind to some other subject and the passage of time.
 
We need to know who the cop boyfriend was who picked up Karen and said it was ok to leave her and they were just playing a game. This was in '96, so did the woman who gave the statement to John Ray name him? That guy needs to be outed. I remember seeing his initials and it wasnt the guy who went to jail for beating up an informant who stole stuff from his car.
I recall too the initials were given. I can't recall from where. Joseph Gialcone had Ray on and has done a fair amount with this, could have been from Ray or witness themselves, or even Rodney Harrison as he did get with Ray and discuss these things in public before he left and I give him major credit for that. It almost even seems to me we heard what area of the city, borough, precinct, and what position he held, he was a detective of some type wasn't he or am I wrong on that.... We know the year. I'm not asking you to do the work but because I KNOW you like digging, how many could there be with the same initials, rank, precinct in 1996........?????
 
I just came across this DM article about John Ray's symposium. A couple of story's about CB encounters that I had not heard before.

I think I"ve heard before probably through a video. I tried to watch the symposium around when it was done but the sound quality was horrible. I gave up. I think I did watch someone who managed to get it all and share it or enhance audio or something or from someone who was there can't recall.

The girl who was 18 serving shots I have some real questions about with that story. Several. Not saying it couldn't be or isn't true plus coke is involved and she's young then but just some real questions.

Of course I always have to consider DM as the do sometimes twist a bit or aren't word for word and so on or get every fact right.

The Vergata story too has changed a bit here and there. From what I recall. Now that could be because we heard it from Ray who probably knew it well but was going from best of his recall. They are not huge but they are there.

I'd heard of the one with the woods incident and believe all of them but dont' think I read the DM article prior.

Just one example, prior she THOUGHT she might have had saex with CB, now she DID as did her partner, they both did. And now it's best sex ever where before she only thought she might have had sex with him. I recall that distinctly. At least I think that's what Ray said she said or perhaps her affidavit did, not sure which. That and a few other little things like that are changed some. but going from unsure to certain with detail is major even if it isn't a big change, it is when trying to judge honesty.

There are things in both of those stories I hope to point out I noticed but I am flat out wiped. Last day of a week with OT and a another ten hour day tomorrow, at least.

Good finds!
 
Article with ages has probably been posted upthread but here it is again. In Feb '96 when Karen Vergata was taken to the Heuermann residence, the son would have been 5 or 6 years old.

 
Article with ages has probably been posted upthread but here it is again. In Feb '96 when Karen Vergata was taken to the Heuermann residence, the son would have been 5 or 6 years old.

Hmm. Well an educated guess would be he was home. I guess they could have gotten a sitter but it would have to be one where theyt took him to their house on Valentine's Day. It seems highly unlikely. He may or may not have been in school but that would be daytime anyhow.

That's quite the thing to expose your kid to, dad having sex with a strange mand then a strange woman. Another scared to death woman running around naked chased by dad probably and one who showered in your shower and was peering out the window in fear. That's without anything else they were doing like drugs and alcohol.

UNREAL. Great parenting by Mr. and Mrs. CB. Even IF say the sex went on downstairs, the naked running didn't and the witness asking mom in the living room if she wanted to have a go at some action. I don't care if the kid was in bedding either, a kid can wake up and hear or walk out at any time and in fact it's not unusual when things are going on or people over for them to do so...I think right here says a lot about what kinds of parents they were most likely.

I'm not going to attack the kids but the fact daughter worked with dad allegedly is something that bothers me some too when one considers what he used his work days for quite often. Did they go to and from work together? I suppose not when he was meeting up with sex workers. Did she share that pizza lol or was he a selfish dad, food was all his. You know I figured it had something to do with she couldn't get a job or keep one or something so hence working for dad but maybe it wasn't that, maybe mom made him give her one to keep dad in line. It's a way to keep like or hope to a cheating husband home for instance is saddle him babysitting the kids or where one would hope he wouldn't do the things he would do if the kids were present... Well same idea, put adult daughter, even better, in office with dad where he pulls much of his shenanigans perhaps...?

I mean did he need her there? I doubt it she had no related experience and age, wisdom, etc. I don't think he'd want that, perfectionist and full of himself as he is and she'd be seeing the way he treated female colleagues and all else.

I'll leave the kids alone but will say they have very odd parents with some real abnormal lifestyles let's just say and it can't help but have affected how and who the kids are. And the icing on their cake for affect in life is dad is now in jail charged as a heinous serial killer in a well known number of cases with ample proof. Then you see mom play victim, then you see her immediately go to divorce dad, then see her pick up and rally and go rags to riches and use the killings and his infamy to profit and turn into a supportive wife to dad, but for what reason...

Yeah, that's really from early years to now some examples set and for even adult kids to figure out or not be affected by.

So in further years was daughter and son seeing the swinging and other oddities when daugher as a toddler and onward? Did she see any naked woman being chased...? Of course if again, true.

If this night of swinging at CB's home is even true that there was such no matter what went on and if it was Vergata, there's a lot there. It shows Asa herself was part of such and okay with sex workers. Shows she condoned or even was part of or encouraged Rex with other partners of both sexes and with sex workers. It shows a chase of a terrified woman whoever she was probably by Rex, someone who had NO options, and one that Asa may even have known resulted in murder. It shows an absolute disregard and uncare for that woman and that matches her absolute failure to recognize the victims who were also sex workers and say a word in sympathy about them or their families until just now which is way past where it counts and only because she knows it has been commonly said and asked what is wrong with this woman as she hadn't done so.

It makes it a lot harder to believe she didn't at least know of her husband's continued behavior with sex workers through the years, thought little of them as he did, and even more. It shows she partnered back then to such things at their own home with a total disregard for her child/ren.

I could go on, an on, lol but it shows a lot. It also shows not for a minute does she believe CB innocent, she just says so. It shows she very likely is complicit or knew and cared less. Her hair is a big thing but even more so, there's plenty that shows she knew a lot and either condoned or participated. And from their early years together...

How'd they meet? I feel I've heard but then I'm not sure I have but wanted to know and maybe only seen it speculated. Through some swinging thing would be my first guess. Or through Craigslist lol and some mail order bride thing. Only half kidding...

You know, the Vergata story, there's been plenty of time to vet and Tierney has not come out and blown it out of the water. There is the cop bf, even if he denies such activities, if real is one thing and if others can place this woman's him together is some corroboration. There are jail records of IF Vergata just got out of jail. Even though he seems the type, I'm not the biggest fan, to not do a thing about what he does not think or is told to, one would think just checking into this when it is the best known story of Ray's witnesses, just looking into it would be done if only to blow it out of the water and hush it. I would say he knows though it is going to take some real facts in denial of it for anyone to believe the denial such went on. With the black eyes this case and various LE and officials and politics in this whole area have had for years and the attention this now has by the public (always has had but off and on), AND an arrest, no one is going to believe them if they simply say the COP BF said it isn't true, NONE of this happened with ANY woman but can't prove the two never "dated", "swung" etc. and all the other little details and so on and so on.

Since it hasn't be dispelled, tells me there must be substance or no way to dispell it is my guess and perhaps it was even found to have substance.

It may be avoided for another reason. There's so much here and around these cases and Giilbert too and of corrupt cops and those in elected positions and so on of a culture and their own behavior and treatment of sex workers and so on that yet another cop picked up some hooker apparently as a fourth for CB and the night and cared less like the woman did when they left her with him, smacks of at least indifference but more so even part of something where he'd seen this before... Oh they'are just playing a game... Had he been with and seen and been part of such before with CB... All they need right is another cop from the area that shows more hints of something really wrong or was dirty and involved in the sex workers things... That alone is a reason to avoid it or not go there and even could be protection of the "brother" for that matter. But then by not vetting and clearing or confirming this, they're giving such an impression anyhow...
 
Two articles about Karen Vergata. The cop was apparently a NY city narcotics detective. Haven't found a name yet. The second article has links to the affidavits so I will look at them to see if his name is in there. Still trying to copy the data in the first link.



A new witness believes that she last saw Karen Vergata, who was recently identified as Fire Island Jane Doe, at the Massapequa Park home of Gilgo Beach serial killer suspect Rex Heuermann.

Miller Place-based attorney John Ray revealed Wednesday details shared with him by the witness — one of four that have recently contacted him, two of whom have signed affidavits documenting their recollections. The second sworn statement was from a taxi driver who said Heuermann once threatened to kill her and believes she saw the suspect with Shannan Gilbert, the missing woman who Suffolk County police were searching for when they found 11 sets of human remains along Ocean Parkway a decade ago.

“We … added two more investigators to [the Gilgo Beach Homicide Investigation Task Force] to take this type of information in and to pursue it … to see if it is credible,” Suffolk County Police Commissioner Rodney Harrison told reporters while joining Ray at the attorney’s news conference.


Ray has represented Gilbert’s family, who believe that Shannan was killed in Oak Beach, where her body was found in December 2011, but authorities have suggested that she may have accidentally drowned in the marsh. Heuermann was charged in July with killing three women found dead in Gilgo Beach and prosecutors have said he is the prime suspect in a fourth murder while the investigation is continuing into whether he may be involved in the other deaths.

The witness account of Vergata at Heuermann’s home is notable for the fact that it would be the first alleged connection between the suspect and one of four Gilgo-area victims whose remains were dismembered and scattered in Manorville, Hempstead Lake State Park and — in Vergata’s case — near Davis Park on Fire Island. Vergata’s death in 1996 also makes her case the one unsolved longest of the Ocean Parkway victims. The victims Heuermann was charged with killing were found intact and had been murdered between 2007 and 2010.

In the affidavit, a 54-year-old woman whose name was not released said she and her then-boyfriend — a New York City narcotics detective — went to Heuermann’s house after finding an open invitation to go there on the wall of Trapeze, a swingers club in Manhattan where couples share partners with one another. On their way to Long Island, the witness said her boyfriend picked up a woman she recognized as Vergata, the witness wrote in the affidavit, after authorities announced in August that they had identified the victim after two decades. Ray said the woman cried when she saw Vergata’s face in the news because the witness told the attorney that she was uneasy with how the victim was allegedly left at the suspect’s house.

“Hey shouldn’t we be taking her, something’s wrong here,” the witness told her boyfriend as she said they left Heuermann’s house, leaving behind Vergata, who ran out of the home naked, according to Ray. The boyfriend reportedly told the witness, “Don’t worry, they’re just playing a game. Leave it.”

That incident was alleged to have occurred on or around Valentine’s Day in 1996, which is when Vergata’s family said they last heard from the victim. Although the affidavit allegedly places Vergata in Heuermann’s home, the witness does not say that she saw the suspect kill the victim.

In the other affidavit, the taxi driver wrote that she once was called to pick up a woman from the Sayville Motor Lodge, a motel whose owners were charged last year with sex trafficking — and that she believes it was Gilbert who she drove to the Ronkonkoma Long Island Rail Road station after a date with Heuermann went bad in the fall of 2009. The witness recalled that Gilbert said the man told her he was paying her $1,000, but when she looked in the envelope, it was full of pieces of paper, so she locked herself in the bathroom and called a cab, according to the statement. When the cabbie arrived, a large man emerged and covered his face as he fled, the statement added.

Several days or weeks later, the cabbie said she was called to pick a man up from a location near exit 59 on the Long Island Expressway, but when she arrived, he changed his destination and said “he wanted to take her on a long trip into the woods,” but when she refused he pulled out a handgun and threatened to kill her, Ray told reporters. She recognized the man as the same person she saw at the Sayville motel, the witness told Ray.

“I already want to kill you, just give me a reason,” Ray said the witness recalled Heuermann telling her before her dispatcher chimed in that he could see and hear the threats, scaring the suspect off. The attorney added that the cabbie reported the incident to police, but nothing came of it, which is why she turned to Ray when she saw Heuermann’s face in the news and realized who he was.

The other two witnesses Ray said he heard from have not signed affidavits, but one alleged that she believes a man fitting Heuermann’s description pointed a gun at her in Queens. The other alleged that Heuermann sometimes hired more than one sex worker at a time, even while his wife was home, and that his wife accused them of stealing an iron. Heuermann’s attorney could not immediately be reached for comment on the information Ray shared.

Harrison said that he personally met with the cabbie and Ray said detectives met with the swinger at the same time as him. Suffolk County District Attorney Ray Tierney issued a statement shortly after the news conference clarifying that private attorneys are not a part of the task force investigating the Gilgo Beach murders.
 
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Ok I cannot access the NewsDay article again no matter what I do. It let me read it once and now I cannot access it to read it again. If you can read it it was a personal story about Karen's ashes finally going back to her sons after all this time.

The other article I copied and the affidavit can be read. The initials are RW as being the cop who was a narcotics detective at Prospect Park, Brooklyn, NYPD. I think that is the 78th Precinct. I did a quick Google and found several RW's who were fallen officers, due to after effects of the inhalation of toxic material from the 911 incident.
 
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Ok I cannot access the NewsDay article again no matter what I do. It let me read it once and now I cannot access it to read it again. If you can read it it was a personal story about Karen's ashes finally going back to her sons after all this time.

The other article I copied and the affidavit can be read. The initials are RW as being the cop who was a narcotics detective at Prospect Park, Brooklyn, NYPD. I think that is the 78th Precinct. I did a quick Google and found several RW's who were fallen officers, due to after effects of the inhalation of toxic material from the 911 incident.
I tried but I was rewarded and selected as a new subscriber if only I have 25 cents. No thanks to a renewing sign up I don't need to remember to cancel a subscription that will go higher and I will never use anyhow lol. I did try though so you know and would have shared it if it had worked.

Newsday may have had something different but I am pretty sure we have seen the affidavits or heard them read by Ray, etc. on the cab driver and the swinger but so much goes on that it is hard to bring all detials back to mind in this case. I'm he77 on the dates and such and clarity on victims other than I do have some straight very well like Vergata (but not with her finding, body, where, when) and of course Shannon Gilbert, I'm very clear on her, sadly a lot of the others and the details aren't cemented in me. The years and dates particularly. Costello I am clear on was here the truck info came from her "bf" and some other things. The four he is charged with I know are Waterman, Costello, Brainerd-Barnes and I'm forgetting one but I do know. But again dates missing or ound, nope. Not cemented. To not confuse. Or where even.

That timeline was good and that's why there's a need for such to be viewable easily. Times missing without times found even separately would be good. I noted 2010 was quite the year in many ways... And like I think I said earlier (can't recall if I did but meant to) I did notice a lot of summer dates.
 
RW yeah. That's right. Let's think Robin Williams or some such known person so we will recall the initials. Red Wing would work for me, that' is a city here. Rich Woodmakers? Is that called a pnemone or do I have the wrong term? The minute you said the initials I knew that's what we heard but couldn't recall them either. Rotate West? Lol. Just something that helps us keep it in mind as this HUGE case with so many victims goes on. And parts.

When you sid narcotics officer, it immediately resonated too and sure that is right as to what we heard before.

Makes it harder as they are likely going to have been more unknown or undercover...? Except if it is like the one on the local police force with the dog, where I live we all knew which officer that one was for city and county. I guess what I mean is was he undercover narcotics? 1996 was 28 years ago, would he still be working today or retired...
 

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