LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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I don't think she should stand down, and I don't believe the defense attorney's were coerced in any way. I think they knew and wanted the leaks to happen. Unless the judge is letting her health problems get in the way of working or working even just this case then I think she should stay on. People get sick, others take over or cover for them. Hopefully its nothing serious and if it is then I'm sure she will step down.
There is ONLY one narrative being run with this and this should concern people but instead they have blinders on and are running with it. Anyone who believes these defense "blunders" are accidents have lost their collective minds imo.

I agree with you entirely.

I don't know if she has done wrong or not but every bit of this started from their "mishap". WHERE was all this info or these claims beforehand? And clearly it hasn't all been work at home as she ws in chambers AND in court after.

They were BEHIND these leaks imo and all they do is keep turning the tables. I am not a media fan but boy what they heck they are doing with this with not a lick of common sense I can't even fathom. This was a LAW OFFICE, not a public library. One handling cases and one of the biggest KNOWN in the NATION. Give me a BREAK. They were behind every BIT of it and boy the "suicide" is all but forgotten...

It is all one can do to not buy into the narrative but I'm unsure yet on Gull. I am NOT unsure on these defense attorneys. NOT FOR A MOMENT. TOO MUCH. There is EVEN a PATTERN.

I am of course WAY behind and as I catch up with news and posts maybe I will change my mind but if Allen is allowed to keep these entirely unethical creeps, then he needs to sign a waiver or wahtever that he cannot appeal lack of decent/effective counsel. They OUTED his FILE/case evidence. Early on the whiners couldn't even travel a bit to see their client. Now they fight to stay on to go see him lmao.

They pull their stunts and then they turn it all around.

I'm not sure of either side entirely but I AM sure about them. And their chain of release of things to move it steps away from their office, oh they didn't do it...

Yes to anyone would tell me, I know they have separate offices...
 
There is ONLY one narrative being run with this and this should concern people but instead they have blinders on and are running with it. Anyone who believes these defense "blunders" are accidents have lost their collective minds imo.

I agree with you entirely.

I don't know if she has done wrong or not but every bit of this started from their "mishap". WHERE was all this info or these claims beforehand? And clearly it hasn't all been work at home as she ws in chambers AND in court after.

They were BEHIND these leaks imo and all they do is keep turning the tables. I am not a media fan but boy what they heck they are doing with this with not a lick of common sense I can't even fathom. This was a LAW OFFICE, not a public library. One handling cases and one of the biggest KNOWN in the NATION. Give me a BREAK. They were behind every BIT of it and boy the "suicide" is all but forgotten...

It is all one can do to not buy into the narrative but I'm unsure yet on Gull. I am NOT unsure on these defense attorneys. NOT FOR A MOMENT. TOO MUCH. There is EVEN a PATTERN.

I am of course WAY behind and as I catch up with news and posts maybe I will change my mind but if Allen is allowed to keep these entirely unethical creeps, then he needs to sign a waiver or wahtever that he cannot appeal lack of decent/effective counsel. They OUTED his FILE/case evidence. Early on the whiners couldn't even travel a bit to see their client. Now they fight to stay on to go see him lmao.

They pull their stunts and then they turn it all around.

I'm not sure of either side entirely but I AM sure about them. And their chain of release of things to move it steps away from their office, oh they didn't do it...

Yes to anyone would tell me, I know they have separate offices...

This was intentionally done by the defense, I have no doubt. I'd like to hear what he was doing with those pictures out on a table. If he was working on the case, what was it that required crime scene photos.
 
It was all sealed with a gag order on it all at one time, yet the stuff is being printed out and laid out on a table for anyone to see. As well as being incorrectly sent to other clients instead of the other lawyer.

Gull then removed the gag order, IIRC and unsealed everything making it all accessible but with redactions.

She then had this meeting in chambers giving them a Hobson's choice of withdrawing or doing it in public, so they went out the back door, but then changed their minds and want her out.

She has appointed these new dudes and now the whole mess has to be decided by the Supreme Court.

Meantime, the defendant and the families all have to wait yet another year because of the egos of all these so called legal professionals. It's just a mess and has been right from the start, with the first judge recusing himself.

Oh and why have we got an Allen County judge in the first place? Because we are going to have an Allen County jury, in the hope that they won't have already heard too much about the case, like a Carroll County jury, may have possibly done.

Fat chance of that now eh?
 
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Well it was serious enough that she had to go into hospital for several days. It was described as an "urgent medical condition" and she is still off sick now.

I also don't understand why the Defence have not been charged regarding the photos. After all it was Baldwin's firm that left the photos out on a table for anyone to see.
This was planned where there was no electronic tech trail imo from Baldwin to friend. What are they going to charge with, even the "friend" crook was just a misdemeanor charge. Although I think they know what happened but proving it is another thing. HOWEVER, ethics and confidentiality are a lawyer's responsibility....
 
I imagine it's because the defense has a right to look at their client's discovery. Westerman admits he stole it without their knowledge. I'm not sure what criminal charges could be filed against Baldwin?
Do you believe that though? I don't. Proof and what the more than obvious likely truth is are two different things.
 
This was planned where there was no electronic tech trail imo from Baldwin to friend. What are they going to charge with, even the "friend" crook was just a misdemeanor charge. Although I think they know what happened but proving it is another thing. HOWEVER, ethics and confidentiality are a lawyer's responsibility....
So you think he laid them all out on the table and then got a phone call he had to take, leaving them accessible, accidentally on purpose?

No way of knowing at all unless LE spoke to all staff at the office to find out how long this stuff had actually been laid out in there for all to see. Days, weeks?

The date the info went missing was something like between August and October based on Westerman's affidavit IIRC. So had it been laying out on the table for all that time?
 
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It could very well be COVID or similar. Are you saying everybody that has been hospitalized should quit their jobs?
And courts are a different animal. I was told in m divorce (if true as I have to question the source) one of the two judges had cancer but he kept serving and working... Also note in the post by @Imamazed she is not some inexperienced judge and she was appointed imo because of her experience. I'm not going to fast jump onto this agenda that seems to be going on....

CLEARLY she has been both in chambers and IN COURT.

Plus if she stepped away causing a new judge and start and more time to the case, I think you'd agree then people would be yelling about THAT. Right?
 
This affidavit gives a more accurate time when MW photographed the crime scene photos.



Paragraph 5 states he took photos of the crime scene photos a couple of months before the 9th Oct 2023, so early August in other words.
 
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There's a big difference between medical leave and quitting your job. I thought about Covid, too. But if that's the case, she had no business being in the courtroom with Covid. That's just irresponsible. Surely, she didn't have Covid. :(
I started a post the other day and never finished it and never posted it but it is anyone's guess but my first thought was HEART. Shortness of breath which has been noted before ever hearing this was my FIL's first sign of heart issues and he was promptly when finally going in quickly going through major heart surgery. This is one of the only things too they keep you for longer than insurance allows (so WRONG) if things aren't seeming quite right. He was scheduled to come home but some things were not right so he had to stay longer. I could sidetrack into the rest of that story but won't, and I don't know what is wrong and we may never know, except trust the defense, they will probably out her health problem like they do EVERYTHING. Well if they could use it to their advantage anyhow... NOT to the defendant's advantage but to THEIRS. Sorry but that is how I see them... SCUM.

My first thought on hearing of a major health issue was they knew of this... It is far from far fetched to think a legal community knew of such... I have seen such. That a judge is dealing with something, still working, hopefully it won't affect your/the cases yada yada yada they get told, know or hear. And then I thought they HIT when they knew this didn't they....BEFORE any of us knew it....

I think a timeline with all known would be worthwhile. I'm not asking anyone to do it but of course I sure the heck am not going to get to it. But the timing of the leak for instance versus other things and her health and hospitalization and so forth. We KNOW she was in chambers, etc... But did they do as some I've seen do in life they hit when you are overloaded with other things....

I agree with you, medical leave and quitting your job are far different things..
 
She has made bad decisions in the ways she has dealt with this whole case IMO, that's why she should go. Her having an urgent medical condition is in addition to that.

Alternatively she could just stand down from this case. It is other judges having to already deal with it anyway.
I don't agree with this. Not at this point anyhow. That in chambers thing cited a lot more instances/issues with the defense attys than I had known of or I think most of us had.

I have come close to jumping on that ship against her too as the whole playing field is being changed to that while ignoring the defense crap but I'm not there yet. I'm not saying she shouldn't go but I don't know. I think all she did was for valid reasons as far as I can see thus far.

They felt that transcript would help them and I don't see it that way at all, just the opposite.

A LOT needs to be gotten to the bottom of here and maybe it needs to be a clean slate I don't know.

Not my strong forte but I am on a wait and see with parts of it.

Clerk's son in Murdaugh had me going full on for an opinion but that is in the heat of the moment, but it sure can't be ignored either... We sure never knew of her son's position with the county. I didn't anyhow...
 
And courts are a different animal. I was told in m divorce (if true as I have to question the source) one of the two judges had cancer but he kept serving and working... Also note in the post by @Imamazed she is not some inexperienced judge and she was appointed imo because of her experience. I'm not going to fast jump onto this agenda that seems to be going on....

CLEARLY she has been both in chambers and IN COURT.

Plus if she stepped away causing a new judge and start and more time to the case, I think you'd agree then people would be yelling about THAT. Right?
Yes. If she stepped away, it would only cause even more delays that could make it as a year or more.

I also know plenty of people that work through cancer treatment. It all depends on how sick they were from either the cancer or the treatment. Some are just fine. My dad was one of those
 
He did not safeguard the evidence properly so he broke rules of evidence as a minimum. Everything was sealed yet he had it all laid out in an unlockable conference room. He has only recently put a lock on the door apparently. A man has died because of it. At a minimum I would say contempt of court or gross misconduct but even if not a criminal charge, he should be subject to the attorneys code of conduct rules.

He also sent supposedly sealed case information to Brad W rather than Brad Rozzi.
Yep. Agree on all. Plus that is just the VERSION of events he gave as to conference room, how, who, date, etc. At MINIMUM that is true. And it was not the first blip or question with these guys. This is arguably one of the best known cases in the nation and yet let's just have buddies wandering around freely as they feel ilike in our offices when I get busy and leave these pictures out? I wouldn't fall for sight unseen buying any Florida swampland marked as something else either. WHY are people out there and even talking heads a/k/a "experts" even falling for this b.s. story? SMDH. And here's another one. JUST the pictures were accessible? Hmm. Sure. Okay. Uh-huh.

Let's even say these are or WERE thought of as serious good attorneys but then you get to read the juvenile writing of the O thing on top of it...? There's a group all right. Not sure about the O group (don't believe) or pedo group (think plays in but big group was not there) but there IS a group in the entire agenda going on with the defense and even the coverage since in this case if you ask me. Again imo.

They are DIRTY. And IF the higher court comes back with reinstating them, there had better be some serious guidelines, admonitions and a release by Alle that will HOLD no matter what.. Because imo the same b.s. will come about again or continue.

Why are so many making light of what is the lack of serious ethics and confidentiality?

They created a chain here to make any leaking to many others a number of people removed from them. Funny isn't it that at least one person released them to one person who released them to one person who then released them to many. Funny how not a single person just kept them to themselves. Not a single person thought NOPE I better not...

I could go ON. And ON.

Allen has rights. He also has the right to be protected from his own attorneys who IF they had his best interest at heart would not risk the case pulling shi*t like this OR safeguarding the file relating to him and the case he is charged in.

IMHO.
 
This was intentionally done by the defense, I have no doubt. I'd like to hear what he was doing with those pictures out on a table. If he was working on the case, what was it that required crime scene photos.
I'm actually a bit surprised you agree :)
But yeah that's another road I could go down. He isn't a detective trying to solve a case and the pics wouldn't be the main or only thing. But ya now if you accidentally need them left out, and only them, how perfect right...? Just the PHOTOS. Oh GEE. Nothing else? Really?
It all defies logic and common sense.

I know where Gull erred. The in chamber thing should have video and voice because I am giving certain tones to what the defense said but we can't hear them.

I know you aren't 100 percent on Allen, BG, etc. but it is nice to see you do see this this way by the defense. It is dirty and intentionally dirty. And I do not buy it is because they care so muc about their client.

They have managed their intent. To make the case an entire mess. But again it isn't for the sake of and love of Allen or belief in his innocence. In fact I have come to believe he confessed to THEM. Not for a minute do I believe this dirty duo cares about Allen.
 
It was all sealed with a gag order on it all at one time, yet the stuff is being printed out and laid out on a table for anyone to see. As well as being incorrectly sent to other clients instead of the other lawyer.

Gull then removed the gag order, IIRC and unsealed everything making it all accessible but with redactions.

She then had this meeting in chambers giving them a Hobson's choice of withdrawing or doing it in public, so they went out the back door, but then changed their minds and want her out.

She has appointed these new dudes and now the whole mess has to be decided by the Supreme Court.

Meantime, the defendant and the families all have to wait yet another year because of the egos of all these so called legal professionals. It's just a mess and has been right from the start, with the first judge recusing himself.

Oh and why have we got an Allen County judge in the first place? Because we are going to have an Allen County jury, in the hope that they won't have already heard too much about the case, like a Carroll County jury, may have possibly done.

Fat chance of that now eh?
I can't argue with any of this. I could maybe add to it as you likely could as well.

Yep I'd pretty much agree that sums most of it up. I would add then after sneaking out the back door, they turned the tables and media and almost all others ran with it. Yup.
 
I was replying to Tresir, the name should be evidence of that, surely?
As far as your implication, GrandmaBear, that RA changed his story...
where is the audio copy of his first interview with DNR Dulin? It doesn't
exist so far, because Dulin belongs to the 'dog ate my evidence' school
of Indiana policing, as Dulin asserts he can't find the audio recording,
although, hey, it's OK, cause Dulin asserts he records all his other
interviews
, so let's just be nodding donkeys and accept every thing LE
says in this... Indiana is surely a magical place, where they should just
abolish the courts, because surely no bloody LE would ever be untruthful!
EDIT: P.S. non-fired bullet scratches = nonsense science, as to the
audio comparisons, well, all that can be said (+ with the recording static)
is that that's in the ear of the beholder... sounds to me like that's a younger
man than RA's age. (Also, phone video isn't visually a clear resolution, e.g.
the hair can't be made out).
You are being very rude and condescending. When you post something referencing something someone said. It is a reference. It doesn't seem that comment would be only for them. If that's the case. You want to direct it at one person use @, And their screen name. And that we all believe everything from LE, And "Nodding Donkeys" Huh?. I can think for myself. And I believe by what I see, Hear, And experience. No one tells me what to think. You were, IMO attacking GrandmaBear unnecessarily. She can think for herself too. Believe me.
 

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