LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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Yes and it is a pretty small tattoo FFS just a FU to the prison who could demand he wears a plaster over it if necessary like those zit plasters that schoolgirls wear.

The tattoo, the patches, the claims of "odinism" - are symbols for "I AM PROUD TO BE A FACIST WHITE NATIONALIST"
or ... "HITLER IS MY DADDY"

I don't think it's a small thing to parade that around on your face as a prison guard, considering the racial makeup of the prison population.
It's intentional, cruel, and ignorant, IMO.

I've lost patience with explanations suggesting this type of odinism display is = to paganism.
It's not.

True pagans should be livid to have their religion co-opted by what we all know to be skinheads (the 1990's version of this crap), the 1940's sons of Hitler and the 1890-1980's KKK variations.

JMHO
 
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Not just someone but his wife coerced him?

It will be interesting to hear the defense on how he was coerced though.
FWIW - I'm thinking possibly that confessions were DUI. (delivered under the influence) ...
We won't know until related evidentiary hearing covers that topic if the confessions are admissible.
 
FWIW - I'm thinking possibly that confessions were DUI. (delivered under the influence) ...
We won't know until related evidentiary hearing covers that topic if the confessions are admissible.
DUI means driving under the influence (of drugs or alcohol) in the UK. Do you mean under the influence of alcohol or drugs too?

I do wonder if RA is an alcoholic though, which would explain his incident when his wife called the police and he went to hospital.

Or do you mean the guards drugged him and then got him to confess (DUI) ? Surely you don't mean that?
 
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The tattoo, the patches, the claims of "odinism" - are symbols for "I AM PROUD TO BE A FACIST WHITE NATIONALIST"
or ... "HITLER IS MY DADDY"

I don't think it's a small thing to parade that around on your face as a prison guard, considering the racial makeup of the prison population.
It's intentional, cruel, and ignorant, IMO.

I've lost patience with explanations suggesting this type of odinism display is = to paganism.
It's not.

True pagans should be livid to have their religion co-opted by what we all know to be skinheads (the 1990's version of this crap), the 1940's sons of Hitler and the 1890-1980's KKK variations.

JMHO
I think to say this about the prison guards with no evidence they are versions of skinheads/Hitler/KKK etc is wrong.

So you think racist white nationalists killed the girls? Have I got that right? You believe the "race trader" theory?

I think the lawyers saw the patches and came up with the ridiculous Odinist theory themselves and leaked the crime scene photos accidentally on purpose to get the press coverage for their theory. It worked and they got their coverage. Judge Gull was right to give them the chance to stand down for the leaks. Remember they also leaked evidence to a guy who had a case against the Carroll County Sheriff. How convenient there were two such "accidents". Now the new D are taking it up because they have no other defence either.
 
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I think to say this about the prison guards with no evidence they are versions of skinheads/Hitler/KKK etc is wrong.

So you think racist white nationalists killed the girls? Have I got that right? You believe the "race trader" theory?

I think the lawyers saw the patches and came up with the ridiculous Odinist theory themselves and leaked the crime scene photos accidentally on purpose to get the press coverage for their theory. It worked and they got their coverage. Judge Gull was right to give them the chance to stand down for the leaks. Remember they also leaked evidence to a guy who had a case against the Carroll County Sheriff. How convenient there were two such "accidents". Now the new D are taking it up because they have no other defence either.
I think the same and more. You are so RIGHT. This is a kindegartner's dot to dot puzzle with almost everything the defense has done and when they have done it and why.

The Frank's memo was FULL of not real scenarios or anything said to them by RA but suggested scenarios about the guards and so on.

When one strips away all the fuzz and b.s. thrown by the defense in an attempt to cover THEIR antics, RA's confession and more, and then the news and SM's taking it all on with blinders on, it is so clear. In my opinion it always has been clear with each thing, the timing and the reason.

Notice it has all died down "out there".

The ISC did NOT do or take this in the hyped up way many did nor made some urgent decision nor intervention.

The lawyers did see the patches and come up with this themselves, it basically says that in the memo. I find it interesting though when these patches came about and their notice of them.... Again I will just say timing... It really was and still is if one shovels the sh*t out of the way first and gets a clear view an elementary dot to dot puzzle.
 
I think to say this about the prison guards with no evidence they are versions of skinheads/Hitler/KKK etc is wrong.

So you think racist white nationalists killed the girls? Have I got that right? You believe the "race trader" theory?

I think the lawyers saw the patches and came up with the ridiculous Odinist theory themselves and leaked the crime scene photos accidentally on purpose to get the press coverage for their theory. It worked and they got their coverage. Judge Gull was right to give them the chance to stand down for the leaks. Remember they also leaked evidence to a guy who had a case against the Carroll County Sheriff. How convenient there were two such "accidents". Now the new D are taking it up because they have no other defence either.
And yeah comparing such to anyone like Hitler or the KKK is over the top. Old D would love that though as it is just the kind of thing they'd hope for and intended for those that fall for this.

I think what is so disgusting is to me it is all so obvious and to you but fueled by Old D and a whole lot of people and news out there, a number fell for all this like and forgot the causes and issues like confessions, then leaks and a suicide and Old D focused on and more and went with every single thing the Old D did to divert and sn*wball.

Thankfully the ISC didn't treat it like some life and death situation or fall for the attempts and the public bluster, because it is not life and death. And a whole lot of b.s. occurred to fuzz it all. To no avail to date thank God.

I think Old D is both dangerous in their ways and not the best educated attorneys either unless they pursue the wrong course of action in the wrong way intentionally.

We can cite many things but just for one, why did they not try to substitute Gull. Why did they not deal with and talk to the holding facility, the prison, to accommodate their needs or about their concerns? That's obvious too as to the most likely answer. They wanted and needed to cause a stir and wanted it public. Over and over.

I am willing in almost all matters to change an opinion but there is LITTLE to NOTHING that can change my opinion about Old D. I think less than the lowest about them and think (and only did this over time and seeing through it) they are scum. Both. But most particularly and specifically Baldwin.

Well, if I have it right, the ISC arguments are tomorrow is that right?
 
DUI means driving under the influence (of drugs or alcohol) in the UK. Do you mean under the influence of alcohol or drugs too?

I do wonder if RA is an alcoholic though, which would explain his incident when his wife called the police and he went to hospital.

Or do you mean the guards drugged him and then got him to confess (DUI) ? Surely you don't mean that?
That's a new one. Not surprised. Has defense claimed this? Link?

Yeah confessed five times and in different calls to mom and wife. Uh-huh.
 
FWIW - I'm thinking possibly that confessions were DUI. (delivered under the influence) ...
We won't know until related evidentiary hearing covers that topic if the confessions are admissible.
So you're speculating that right? Or has that been alleged now?
 
Not just someone but his wife coerced him?

It will be interesting to hear the defense on how he was coerced though.
Yeah, I guess so. My thought on hearing his confessions was his wife mainly but mom too perhaps gave him an ultimatum of you tell me the truth NOW or else as especially the wife's life and marriage and everything else was turned upside down and being torn apart from publicity, money, finding out her hub is a murderer, etc. And let's remember she knows things we don't. She knows her hub (maybe better now she sees than she did before), knows that day and what both were doing and how he was and can fit things together) ,etc.

I have no idea what emu meant. I think he more likely meant guards coerced him. If so, he should link evidence of that. As well as the claim of that if made by the defense along with their reasons for such a claim.

If it is his own opinion, he didn't make that clear but stated it as if it was the case. So I'm not sure how he meant it but I'd suspect he meant he was coerced by the guards.
 
Have you got a link for that and how they were coerced and by whom? Has he withdrawn the confessions?
I doubt he has a link. First I've heard of it. Of course he could maybe find a speculative link. Not even sure of that. I think it's his opinion but he made it sound as if fact.
 
The Christianity discussion ends now. Further posts will be removed.
Thank you. I don't think it is something that should be banned or taboo at all everywhere by any means but it isn't a religious discussion and was being used wrongly to defend a position or shame those that think Allen is where he is safer and don't buy into such. I don't like it being used for such a purpose.

I wasn't however not going to respond to the remark or one who brought it in.

Hey emu way to go. I move they demote you from your self proclaimed level of membership to a tin member. Not bronze, not platinum, not gold.

All in good fun. Lol.
 
DUI means driving under the influence (of drugs or alcohol) in the UK. Do you mean under the influence of alcohol or drugs too?

I do wonder if RA is an alcoholic though, which would explain his incident when his wife called the police and he went to hospital.

Or do you mean the guards drugged him and then got him to confess (DUI) ? Surely you don't mean that?

Let's say DUI = dialing under the influence. Not a thing. But we can make it a short-hand thing here. ;)

What psychotropics, sedatives, stimulants etc did they administer him, how much, when, how did he react/adjust, continue, discontinue? What's the timeline of "confession" vs documented behaviors/medical records.

eg: "The prednisone calmed his angry rash but ... nobody realized that 3rd grade teacher Mr. O'Reilly, when dosed w/ prednisone, would turn into an angry aggressive maniac who shouldn't be let back into the classroom until he's off that stuff."

IMO ... the veracity of the "confessions" is unknown. The D points to RA's holding conditions, fear, coercion, psych "break" and other behavioral/psych/medical/meds irregularities at time of the "confessions".

The P wants the medical records (ostensibly to debunk D's points).

We await critical facts re: confession tapes to make it into evidence.
 
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Let's say DUI = dialing under the influence. Not a thing. But we can make it a short-hand thing here. ;)

What psychotropics, sedatives, stimulants etc did they administer him, how much, when, how did he react/adjust, continue, discontinue? What's the timeline of "confession" vs documented behaviors/medical records.

eg: "The prednisone calmed his angry rash but ... nobody realized that 3rd grade teacher Mr. O'Reilly, when dosed w/ prednisone, would turn into an angry aggressive maniac who shouldn't be let back into the classroom until he's off that stuff."

IMO ... the veracity of the "confessions" is unknown. The D points to RA's holding conditions, fear, coercion, psych "break" and other behavioral/psych/medical/meds irregularities at time of the "confessions".

The P wants the medical records (ostensibly to debunk D's points).

We await critical facts re: confession tapes to make it into evidence.
I'm never really sure how many confessions they have. This has grown its own wings. My own feelings on the confessions differ from yours, though. I think, most likely, they will be admissible. We know there has never been a competency issue formally accepted by the court, let alone a hearing. Now what the jury believes when they hear them may be a different matter.

My whole issue is his pre trial treatment.
 
I think to say this about the prison guards with no evidence they are versions of skinheads/Hitler/KKK etc is wrong.

So you think racist white nationalists killed the girls? Have I got that right? You believe the "race trader" theory?

I think the lawyers saw the patches and came up with the ridiculous Odinist theory themselves and leaked the crime scene photos accidentally on purpose to get the press coverage for their theory. It worked and they got their coverage. Judge Gull was right to give them the chance to stand down for the leaks. Remember they also leaked evidence to a guy who had a case against the Carroll County Sheriff. How convenient there were two such "accidents". Now the new D are taking it up because they have no other defence either.

The presumption that forum members should "disclose what side they're on" - even the idea that there's a requirement to take a side - is antithetical to robust discussion.

I tend to be analytic and curious and I'm comfortable remaining open-minded until I feel it is reasonable (or necessary) to take a position. Here on the Delphi forum, we're just watching early proceedings in a trial - not even yet at evidentiary hearing stage - haven't reached the poking about/challenging the presented facts stage to know if they are strong or weak or good or bad facts ... etc.. I'm not taking sides. Don't let it become a problem for you.

With regards to ANY Defense SODDI-Theory - it's all about developing the SODDI theory such that it's plausible and supports the D's reasonable doubt argument in the whole. The D's role is to raise reasonable Doubt in the jury's mind; I take the view that forum emotions and beliefs (and that of others who follow a case) as to who killed the girls - are irrelevant. Because we're not the jury.

This is Indiana; the jury of peers will bring their personal experiences to consideration of the "O-Theory" in rural Indiana. Jury members will have some understanding with regard to regional criminal gangs, ("brotherhoods?"), drug runners, and those devoted to white nationalism make ignorant use of Odinism symbolism. I don't know, but I tend to think it's a big factor here.

As to any "ridiculous"-ness about both the Old D and the new D's theories - this theory will be tested and facts sussed out at trial. That's not happened yet, and IMO presumptions about whether or not that theory has legs are premature.

With regard to the Old D and Gull's removal of them ... and who's right/wrong or guilty of something that's not acceptable zealous defense lawyering ... are on the docket tomorrow in Supreme Court.

As to the documented and tolerated existence of White Nationalist correction officers throughout the US prison ... I can offer source upon article upon fact. (It's pretty interesting, IMO). If interested, there's mountains of evidence and research to read about it. I've posted such article in this thread before. I just grabbed yet another 2 articles; below are recent investigative journalism articles from the WashPo and from PBS. (Used google search term: "white nationalism and correction officers") I realize you're not in the States and American persistent, rampant racism and fans of fascism in pockets throughout the US ... isn't necessarily something you'd be familiar with.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/white-supremacist-prison-guards-work-with-impunity-in-florida

Corrections officials regularly receive reports about guards’ membership in the Ku Klux Klan and criminal gangs, according to former prison inspectors, and current and former officers.

Some Florida prison guards openly tout associations with white supremacist groups to intimidate inmates and Black colleagues, a persistent practice that often goes unpunished, according to allegations in public documents and interviews with a dozen inmates and current and former employees in the nation’s third-largest prison system. Corrections officials regularly receive reports about guards’ membership in the Ku Klux Klan and criminal gangs, according to former prison inspectors, and current and former officers.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/17/maryland-prison-lawsuit-white-gang-correctional-officers/




JMHO
 
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So you're speculating that right? Or has that been alleged now?

Good grief. READ MY POST, it's 2 lines. :bored: Here, I'll quote myself:

FWIW - I'm thinking possibly that confessions were DUI. (delivered under the influence) ...
We won't know until related evidentiary hearing covers that topic if the confessions are admissible.

IMO, Mcl wants those med reports b/c he'd like to know sooner (he's motioned the Court and been denied) - rather than during the evidentiary hearing - what facts will be useful to D and perhaps not so helpful to P as to the recorded confession.
 
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I'm never really sure how many confessions they have. This has grown its own wings. My own feelings on the confessions differ from yours, though. I think, most likely, they will be admissible. We know there has never been a competency issue formally accepted by the court, let alone a hearing. Now what the jury believes when they hear them may be a different matter.

My whole issue is his pre trial treatment.

Right - if admitted, they'll be discredited by the D (again, it's D's job) with opposing argument incl facts, depos, various experts, and theory ... and the weight given those confessions is for the jury to determine.
 
Good grief. READ MY POST, it's 2 lines. :bored: Here, I'll quote myself:



IMO, Mcl wants those med reports b/c he'd like to know sooner (he's motioned the Court and been denied) - rather than during the evidentiary hearing - what facts will be useful to D and perhaps not so helpful to P as to the recorded confession.
The presumption that forum members should "disclose what side they're on" - even the idea that there's a requirement to take a side - is antithetical to robust discussion.

I tend to be analytic and curious and I'm comfortable remaining open-minded until I feel it is reasonable (or necessary) to take a position. Here on the Delphi forum, we're just watching early proceedings in a trial - not even yet at evidentiary hearing stage - haven't reached the poking about/challenging the presented facts stage to know if they are strong or weak or good or bad facts ... etc.. I'm not taking sides. Don't let it become a problem for you.

With regards to ANY Defense SODDI-Theory - it's all about developing the SODDI theory such that it's plausible and supports the D's reasonable doubt argument in the whole. The D's role is to raise reasonable Doubt in the jury's mind; I take the view that forum emotions and beliefs (and that of others who follow a case) as to who killed the girls - are irrelevant. Because we're not the jury.

This is Indiana; the jury of peers will bring their personal experiences to consideration of the "O-Theory" in rural Indiana. Jury members will have some understanding with regard to regional criminal gangs, ("brotherhoods?"), drug runners, and those devoted to white nationalism make ignorant use of Odinism symbolism. I don't know, but I tend to think it's a big factor here.

As to any "ridiculous"-ness about both the Old D and the new D's theories - this theory will be tested and facts sussed out at trial. That's not happened yet, and IMO presumptions about whether or not that theory has legs are premature.

With regard to the Old D and Gull's removal of them ... and who's right/wrong or guilty of something that's not acceptable zealous defense lawyering ... are on the docket tomorrow in Supreme Court.

As to the documented and tolerated existence of White Nationalist correction officers throughout the US prison ... I can offer source upon article upon fact. (It's pretty interesting, IMO). If interested, there's mountains of evidence and research to read about it. I've posted such article in this thread before. I just grabbed yet another 2 articles; below are recent investigative journalism articles from the WashPo and from PBS. (Used google search term: "white nationalism and correction officers") I realize you're not in the States and American persistent, rampant racism and fans of fascism in pockets throughout the US ... isn't necessarily something you'd be familiar with.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/white-supremacist-prison-guards-work-with-impunity-in-florida




https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2024/01/17/maryland-prison-lawsuit-white-gang-correctional-officers/








JMHO
Ok so you don't have any actual evidence that the two Westville Odinist guards are KKK or Hitler lovers and drugged the inmate in order to get him to confess.

In fact you don't even have any examples from Indiana, just Maryland and Florida.

That's what I thought.

Much like the Old D's SODDI defence, who have no actual sightings of their chosen Odinists on the trails that day at all, or any physical evidence they were there either.
 
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