LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Where do you think the reasonable doubt is in this case?

There was probable cause for his arrest and indictment. Now it has to be tried.

If there were others, his defence will go into that presumably, but they cannot just cast doubt on persons without evidence. That is the problem with the SODDI Odin defence. There is no evidence pointing to perps other than him. And we haven't yet seen ALL of the evidence.

How did his bullet get to the crime scene and how did articles of the victims clothing get to his house? Just two examples.

The fact that none of his DNA or fingerprints are at the crime scene is reasonable doubt to me. Especially because someone else's was. Someone who hasn't been identified. It looks to me like they're saying RA did it case closed. Who cares who's DNA and fingerprints are there? The missing DNA and fingerprint evidence doesn't point to perps other than him?

Your question about the bullet is a good one. I'd like to know that, too.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Do you have a link for the fact you state that they don't have his DNA at the CS?

I can't find the link, but I think it's common sense. When a suspect leaves DNA at the scene it's the first thing mentioned in all the cases I can think of. That is done because it pretty much seals the evidence of their guilt and puts the community at rest. I did find this article, from early in the case interesting.

Delphi Murders: Why are court records sealed for Richard M. Allen, the man charged in Abby & Libby's death?

Delphi Murders: Why are court records sealed for Richard M. Allen, the man charged in Abby & Libby's death?

www.wrtv.com

In Daybell there was no DNA to speak of - one hair of Lori's IIRC which would be expected as the victim was her adopted son. I don't see you constantly saying this about lack of DNA in that case.

There is a huge amount of circumstantial evidence in that case. There isn't a lot of circumstantial evidence here though.

 

[Guess Who]

In Daybell there was no DNA to speak of - one hair of Lori's IIRC which would be expected as the victim was her adopted son. I don't see you constantly saying this about lack of DNA in that case.

DNA isn't the only evidence we should be concerned with in any case. There are far too many reasons for it to be there for any innocent people and too many reasons for it not to be there for the guilty. It's just another tool and should be seen that way,

 

[Guess Who]

I can't find the link, but I think it's common sense. When a suspect leaves DNA at the scene it's the first thing mentioned in all the cases I can think of. That is done because it pretty much seals the evidence of their guilt and puts the community at rest. I did find this article, from early in the case interesting.

Delphi Murders: Why are court records sealed for Richard M. Allen, the man charged in Abby & Libby's death?

Delphi Murders: Why are court records sealed for Richard M. Allen, the man charged in Abby & Libby's death?

www.wrtv.com

There is a huge amount of circumstantial evidence in that case. There isn't a lot of circumstantial evidence here though.

Not a lot of circumstantial evidence in this one??? There is a ton of circumstantial evidence here. Just no publicly stated DNA. It's very possible that it's there and just not mentioned. It hasn't gone to trial yet, remember? We should not know all the evidence they have before trial or why have one at all?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Not a lot of circumstantial evidence in this one??? There is a ton of circumstantial evidence here. Just no publicly stated DNA. It's very possible that it's there and just not mentioned. It hasn't gone to trial yet, remember? We should not know all the evidence they have before trial or why have one at all?

No confirmed circumstantial evidence. I need to hear about all of these confessions and know what was said. He told one guy he shot them, allegedly. He was in the area, so what, so were those girls, who saw RA, and other people.

There is more circumstantial evidence against RL than RA, just my opinion.

 

[Guess Who]

No confirmed circumstantial evidence. I need to hear about all of these confessions and know what was said. He told one guy he shot them, allegedly. He was in the area, so what, so were those girls, who saw RA, and other people.

There is more circumstantial evidence against RL than RA, just my opinion.

what circumstantial evidence is against him more than RA? Was he seen in the area? Was his car in the area? Did he tell people he did it?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

what circumstantial evidence is against him more than RA? Was he seen in the area? Was his car in the area? Did he tell people he did it?

The girls were found on RL's property, RL's phone pinged in the area the girls were found at 10pm the night before the bodies were discovered, RL's cousin said that RL asked him to lie about his whereabouts for the first time ever. It appears that he asked his cousin to lie, so his timeline would make it impossible for him to be around the area when the girls were abducted. Two people, who knew RL very well thought it was RL as Bridge Guy, RL changed his pitch when he said "Down the hill" for the media. That's just off the top of my head.

 

[Guess Who]

The girls were found on RL's property, RL's phone pinged in the area the girls were found at 10pm the night before the bodies were discovered, RL's cousin said that RL asked him to lie about his whereabouts for the first time ever. It appears that he asked his cousin to lie, so his timeline would make it impossible for him to be around the area when the girls were abducted. Two people, who knew RL very well thought it was RL as Bridge Guy, RL changed his pitch when he said "Down the hill" for the media. That's just off the top of my head.

Wouldn't your phone ping at your apartment? He could have been involved but that is definitely not evidence that he is. Of course his phone could ping there. That other stuff is not "more" evidence than RA and it definitely doesn't exclude RA from being there and involved with it.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

Wouldn't your phone ping at your apartment? He could have been involved but that is definitely not evidence that he is. Of course his phone could ping there. That other stuff is not "more" evidence than RA and it definitely doesn't exclude RA from being there and involved with it.

RL's property is Huge! For that to apply to me, I'd be at my local Wegmans.

I've already said I'm not ruling out his involvement. Just that the evidence against him seems hinky. I do believe more than one person was involved.

 

[RoundPeg]

Circumstantial evidence:

RA placed himself at the scene of the kidnappings prior to the murders.
His car on scene.
Unspent bullet with ejector marks matching his gun.
How many confessions are mentioned in court docs? Several, if I recall.

I'm interested in actual testimony personally.

More interested in a fair trial with good evidence that proves guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Who's DNA and fingerprints are they? His car is on video because he was there. He admitted to being there in 2017 and 2022. So his car being on video is nothing surprising.

I would not have railroaded Logan. I would have done A LOT more investigation of him. As I said in another thread, I would lean defense in the trial, if I were the judge.

A judge shouldn't be leaning in anyone's direction and so you'd be a bad and biased judge and shouldn't be on the bench. Also,that's a terrible thing to do when there are victims here, RA is NOT the victim nor a victim family member. I sure hope they don't see you saying such a thing.

I'm not going over everything that's been gone over countless times yet again and I also see others have answered you anyhow and in the same way most of us do or have done as most do not agree with you. I'm not sure what the need is to constantly repeat the same things but I'm not doing it with you.

If you've got something new, let me know. Have a good one.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Who's DNA and fingerprints are they? His car is on video because he was there. He admitted to being there in 2017 and 2022. So his car being on video is nothing surprising.

I would not have railroaded Logan. I would have done A LOT more investigation of him. As I said in another thread, I would lean defense in the trial, if I were the judge.

I will comment on how you'd do more investigation of Logan because not sure that's been said before, probably has as well, but you have no idea how much they investigated re RL nor what they found out. And if Logan were the defendant you'd be leaning his way too you're saying? Or are you just an RA fan and Logan wouldn't get the same consideration were you the judge?

 

[GrandmaBear]

It seems odd to me that the prosecution is not letting out much information before trial. I think this is the most (allegedly) amount of evidence I've ever seen a prosecutor hold back before trial. It makes me think they don't have much.

We know A LOT about the LISK case because evidence is being released as it comes along. All of the recent evidence in LISK proves that.

You've heard it many times, but it doesn't bother you? All they are going on for Allen is that he admitted he was near there, and a bullet casing with a dubious chain of custody.

Why are you asking me things I've answered many times/when you know my answers? Stop it.

They have witnesses, Libby's video, Allen's confession and Lord knows what else. We would know perhaps by now except for YET ANOTHER defense delay.

 

[GrandmaBear]

It seems odd to me that the prosecution is not letting out much information before trial. I think this is the most (allegedly) amount of evidence I've ever seen a prosecutor hold back before trial. It makes me think they don't have much.

We know A LOT about the LISK case because evidence is being released as it comes along. All of the recent evidence in LISK proves that.

LISK is not releasing all evidence by a long shot. Also most cases are tight lipped by the prosecution, it is NOT uncommon but the opposite. In this one the defense leaked evidence and I guess you'd have them providing it all to the public? For what purpose? And how is that a good thing?

 

[GrandmaBear]

I disagree, obviously. I like Florida's sunshine law and think every state should have it. Look at the Karen Read case. Not releasing evidence would make it harder to show that she's being railroaded.

And that all comes from the defense, not the prosecution prior to trial.

 

[GrandmaBear]

In Daybell there was no DNA to speak of - one hair of Lori's IIRC which would be expected as the victim was her adopted son. I don't see you constantly saying this about lack of DNA in that case.

He doesn't in many cases. Personally I think it is all because he thinks Logan is the perp and so RA must be innocent in his opinion. DNA is just what he uses to argue it but you are right it is a big deal to him here there is none or he has been told of none of RA's and in other cases it is not a big deal to him whatsoever. He also assumes since nothing is shared by the P that there is nothing more or we would know. Not the case whatsoever. We haven't heard the confessions, we have not seen what resulted from the search warrant and testing, we have not heard what his wife said in interviews and those are things we KNOW exist, not the things we don't know of.

This has been beaten to death and it isn't even interesting because of it. Imo. May finish reading, may not. Saw most at work anyhow and looked like the same thing as always. We've said it before and will again, we can't know any of these answers until trial or likely won't and the D stopped that again.

One thing that IS clear is they want and need just about everything kept out and that would mean they KNOW such is all against RA and that means there's more evidence.

 

[GrandmaBear]

I can't find the link, but I think it's common sense. When a suspect leaves DNA at the scene it's the first thing mentioned in all the cases I can think of. That is done because it pretty much seals the evidence of their guilt and puts the community at rest. I did find this article, from early in the case interesting.

Delphi Murders: Why are court records sealed for Richard M. Allen, the man charged in Abby & Libby's death?

Delphi Murders: Why are court records sealed for Richard M. Allen, the man charged in Abby & Libby's death?

www.wrtv.com

There is a huge amount of circumstantial evidence in that case. There isn't a lot of circumstantial evidence here though.

Yes, there is. And DNA is NOT direct evidence, Vinnie I believe it was explained that It isn't solid gold. Especially touch and trace DNA, but ALL of it.

 

[GrandmaBear]

No confirmed circumstantial evidence. I need to hear about all of these confessions and know what was said. He told one guy he shot them, allegedly. He was in the area, so what, so were those girls, who saw RA, and other people.

There is more circumstantial evidence against RL than RA, just my opinion.

Yeah we'd all like to see and hear the confessions. Do you recall anyone saying knowing most or hearing most is going to take trial and we were actually like a week away but of course the defense never had any intent of going to trial at that time. You can go on about what you need but it doesn't mean you or any of us are going to get it. We know that and you do too. As far as having shot them, I'll bet you he changed to incorrect confessions once sh*t hit the fan about his other ones and they came LATER, unless they plan on having someone perjure themselves but supposedly all should be on video like the one to the inmate, etc. and if so, that won't be so easy to lie about.

I guess you could call Carroll County and insist they investigate RL further and also complain we aren't able to see all the evidence because saying it here will not get it. I doubt that will either but go for it.

Did they find a gun and bullet match with RL? So RL somehow snuck into Rick's house and got his bullet and gun way back when, way back, and he had it and he killed the girls. He then somehow also went back to Rick's home and replaced the gun... And don't tell me LE snuck in and got it way back at the time of this crime and then put it back and they fired it and it ended up under one of the girls, etc. That's ridiculous and if they were framing way back then, they'd have arrested him then.

RA's voice is a dead ringer for BG. Not sort of, but a MATCH. Why do they want Libby's video thrown out if as they claim it isn't their guy? It would HELP them if that was the case and they want it out.

They are worried about almost everything. The mirandizing is one thing but WHAT was said in that interview to make them want that out too... If RIck was proclaiming his innocence and nothing incriminating occurred, then there you go. AND the search warrant and results. They need just about EVERYTHING out as it is all damning to RA. Pretty obvious if you ask me.

 

[GrandmaBear]

The girls were found on RL's property, RL's phone pinged in the area the girls were found at 10pm the night before the bodies were discovered, RL's cousin said that RL asked him to lie about his whereabouts for the first time ever. It appears that he asked his cousin to lie, so his timeline would make it impossible for him to be around the area when the girls were abducted. Two people, who knew RL very well thought it was RL as Bridge Guy, RL changed his pitch when he said "Down the hill" for the media. That's just off the top of my head.

All of which has been responded to many times. Why then didn't the defense pick Logan instead of the Os? I'd suspect they know there's some reason it would not fly because they do have the evidence. Logan would have been a far easier sell than the Os to people (like yourself) but they know imo that it wouldn't fly. Of course they did need a HUGE distraction at the time so there is that but they kid of sewed themselves in and RL would have been more logical BUT I think they let him out of their sights because they were able to confirm he couldn't have done it.

And that's all I'm going to say about that and that's because it is a bit different than what's been said before, similar but a bit different.I her said before why not RL but not sure I pointed out they'd know if that one would fly or not because RL was vetted thoroughly and defense would have those results.

 

[GrandmaBear]

RL's property is Huge! For that to apply to me, I'd be at my local Wegmans.

I've already said I'm not ruling out his involvement. Just that the evidence against him seems hinky. I do believe more than one person was involved.

They used that to get the warrant. Period. It helped get them the warrant, then they searched, they vetted RL thoroughly and they dismissed him.