LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

1581272168478.png

Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


1581272119747.png


 
Last edited by a moderator:
It is very difficult to believe this is only 24 minutes long with what she packed into it. It is well worth a watch and taking it in.

Even though I am resistant to the O theory and defense, I am trying to be fair and this sure give some thought. I am positive I've both heard of and watched things on this case before but it has been awhile. For me, if there is any O truth, Allen is involved as well.

This case even in its own right is interesting. As are many in this neck of the woods including the Flora fire.

@Cousin Dupree This will be worth your time. I know you have watched at least one or two I've posted of Grizz and liked her. It definitely gives food for thought AND is unsolved, and even though there is no specific "O" thing, Wiccan is mentioned and staging and more.

Not that long either but full on interesting.



I remember when after RA's arrest this other case (Stephenson) made news as to the Delphi case's LE team member(s) going to visit the Stephenson case LE team member(s) because of evidence from one murder shared many elements with the evidence from the other - including occult signs and one of the victims being far more brutalized than the other.

It was the Delhi team that came out so fast and quashed that news. They got pissed that it had leaked. The Stephenson cop then had to go back to the news and downplay the whole story. Delhi: no comment no comment no comment.

I just found it interesting that ... fast forward ... the RA defense team brings up basically the same type of evidence that the Stephenson cop brought up.

The Delhi and prosecutor team wanted to bury their investigation trail and those they were suspecting into the occult connection ... and RA defense went and pulled it right out into the open.

Not saying this points either here or there ... but in retrospect, one can see why the Delphi team told the Stephenson team to SHUT UP. They REALLY don't want to talk about those other persons who were of previous interest. (I think that suspect was Abby's bf's father? Who fits the BG description as well.) :thinking:
 
The one thing I know is about Wiccans. I had a friend who was one. It's not evil it's actually a very peaceful religion. The spells cast are to help out friends or groups of people just for peace and love to strengthen. Does it work, can't say, but it's probably close to what it would be, if you were just guessing.

There are some people who practice black magic, but they aren't invited to a regular Wicca service.
 
I remember when after RA's arrest this other case (Stephenson) made news as to the Delphi case's LE team member(s) going to visit the Stephenson case LE team member(s) because of evidence from one murder shared many elements with the evidence from the other - including occult signs and one of the victims being far more brutalized than the other.

It was the Delhi team that came out so fast and quashed that news. They got pissed that it had leaked. The Stephenson cop then had to go back to the news and downplay the whole story. Delhi: no comment no comment no comment.

I just found it interesting that ... fast forward ... the RA defense team brings up basically the same type of evidence that the Stephenson cop brought up.

The Delhi and prosecutor team wanted to bury their investigation trail and those they were suspecting into the occult connection ... and RA defense went and pulled it right out into the open.

Not saying this points either here or there ... but in retrospect, one can see why the Delphi team told the Stephenson team to SHUT UP. They REALLY don't want to talk about those other persons who were of previous interest. (I think that suspect was Abby's bf's father? Who fits the BG description as well.) :thinking:
I know I have watched or read on it before (Stephenson). Did you watch her show? She does a pretty good show/thorough job on points she wants to make.

I'd be p*ssed too at leaks. And I go back and forth nowadays of all having to be shared. Of course there should be no big secret that could exonerate someone but I mean truly sometimes it goes too far. They have to likely even investigate the craziest of tips or explain themselves and then share that info as well. I don't mean this case necessarily just generally. Somehow I doubt most defense attorneys if they find out somehow their client is guilty share that info with the prosecution...

Don't get me wrong, if this was big and done and enough reason to pursue it past checking it out and checking it off and moving on, it should be provided to the defense. But during an investigative stage before anyone is charged, there shouldn't be such leaks.

I agree it had to be shared with defense and it was, wasn't it, they just had to pull it from the weeds of a document dump or some such? Buried as they put it.

For me the srongest thing that still exists though is Allen was there and places himself there. On the bridge no less and every bit of it fits with the time the other people there saw a man. NO ONE saw some group or multiple people and even if there was a way that could happen, HE was still there at right times, moments, key places on the trail headed the right way and so forth.

So in Delphi oh yes it made for a splash and boy it is interesting stuff and all isn't it? But it doesn't in any way take Allen out of it. Personally I don't buy it but I can buy Allen may have been part of a pedo ring or even an O ring or both. I respect Grizzly though and the fact she considers it at this point something to wonder about, I'll allow for that and she is the only reason I am to a bit more than I would. HOWEVER, it doesn't escape me Stephenson had Wiccan mention and Delphi has O mention. And it just doesn't take away Allen being there, Kline having a plan to meet Libby and the pedo ring and all the more recent time spent on Kline, etc.

Also, the Stephenson murders were in 2011 and is such a something that I do think it very possible RA planned to make it look like some ritualistic thing (that killer/s never caught), etc. I could go on in that vein but what I guess I am saying is regardless, it is still Allen imo. I am NOT however sold that he was the only. Could be. May not be. Not sure.
 
The one thing I know is about Wiccans. I had a friend who was one. It's not evil it's actually a very peaceful religion. The spells cast are to help out friends or groups of people just for peace and love to strengthen. Does it work, can't say, but it's probably close to what it would be, if you were just guessing.

There are some people who practice black magic, but they aren't invited to a regular Wicca service.
The Stephenson/Grizzly show talked Wiccan, so I am assuming that means you watched it?

Yeah I've heard that about Wiccans before, perhaps it was from you at some time in this site and/or from others here or elsewhere over time, unsure. I don't know enough about it to say. I do know every "religion" has had folks take the religion and use it, change it, take off from it with their own weird own cult, devil worship, black magic, extending the Mormom thing and Joseph Smith visions and such into their own visions and beyond and so forth like Daybells with Zombies and more and a right to kill.

The O thing. Odin was a god in Norse mythology and if you look him up also in German mythology which is news to me. I learned that in either high school literature or some such thing on various mythology, think I had a class on it. I don't know enough or have enough time but I'd say "Odinists" have highjacked it as it was around long before but again is mythology. I also learned of other mythological gods of different cultures. I recall Thor, Athena, Hercules, and more. Aphrodite. Are there groups now in this world using this sh*t too and their names? Anyhow, half sarcasm...

We have seen extremism in almost any group ever. Or religion. Or warping it. Politics. Religion. Culture.

Not sure of my point but my point is who knows? Both of these crimes could be someone just trying to stage it as if it was such a group all think are weird or dangerous OR they are a member of such OR who the heck knows...
 
The Stephenson/Grizzly show talked Wiccan, so I am assuming that means you watched it?

Yeah I've heard that about Wiccans before, perhaps it was from you at some time in this site and/or from others here or elsewhere over time, unsure. I don't know enough about it to say. I do know every "religion" has had folks take the religion and use it, change it, take off from it with their own weird own cult, devil worship, black magic, extending the Mormom thing and Joseph Smith visions and such into their own visions and beyond and so forth like Daybells with Zombies and more and a right to kill.

The O thing. Odin was a god in Norse mythology and if you look him up also in German mythology which is news to me. I learned that in either high school literature or some such thing on various mythology, think I had a class on it. I don't know enough or have enough time but I'd say "Odinists" have highjacked it as it was around long before but again is mythology. I also learned of other mythological gods of different cultures. I recall Thor, Athena, Hercules, and more. Aphrodite. Are there groups now in this world using this sh*t too and their names? Anyhow, half sarcasm...

We have seen extremism in almost any group ever. Or religion. Or warping it. Politics. Religion. Culture.

Not sure of my point but my point is who knows? Both of these crimes could be someone just trying to stage it as if it was such a group all think are weird or dangerous OR they are a member of such OR who the heck knows...

I did watch the video. Odonists are their own religion. I've never heard of it before.
 
I did watch the video. Odonists are their own religion. I've never heard of it before.
I know but I am anti believing other than Allen but she did make some good points I had to admit. I however think it just is as likely if not more so, in both cases someone is trying to make it look or sound like Wiccans or Os, etc. With Allen it could be as simple as he knew of Stephenson so let's stage it like some group known in Delphi and area did it (Os) OR he could be part... Funny how they looked at Os and here he is knowing of or claiming O guards... He doesn't have serial killer "status" but we do not know he isn't one or wanted to be one, etc. and all SKs seem to want to outsmart and be better than all the others before them... Such a little nobody really... Aren't most usually... SKs I mean... But WANT to be somebody, so important and yet so secretive to keep the power once caught even and they keep playing the games... Imo that's what RA is doing... IT is what Dennis Rader still tries or would do... Who knows if this is RA's first kill...

I don't know. I am tired, overworked, have no time or life but try to stay with the cases I followed at least.
 
Interesting discussion. One thing I found of note is IF defense lose BH as involved as an O, they lose the O connection and BH has a pretty strong alibi. Defense HAS to make him part of it so to speak or there just isn't a connection, etc. No real religious sacrificial stuff by Os in area etc. and MOST of what goes on with O is in prison, etc. Do the victims make sense, etc. for an O? A fair and good discussion of both sides of it.

She has on the Murder Sheet couple. Just a calm non sensational discussion of some key things in it.

 
A few good points/questions are like why didn't defense choose Kline or Logan and not just the Os as possible other suspects and so on?

Also a good point is defense can't say prosecution centered on Allen, they investigated all these other avenues of like Kline, Logan, Os, etc. No one can say they didn't.
 
The one thing I know is about Wiccans. I had a friend who was one. It's not evil it's actually a very peaceful religion. The spells cast are to help out friends or groups of people just for peace and love to strengthen. Does it work, can't say, but it's probably close to what it would be, if you were just guessing.

There are some people who practice black magic, but they aren't invited to a regular Wicca service.
Wicca is pretty harmless and connects the soul to the earth and what earth provides. I've seen nothing sinister from any Wiccan I know. The ones I know are the most peaceful people. A bit nutty, but peaceful. They get pretty po'd when people try to cross the two subjects and I don't blame them.
 
Interesting. I guess Allen called the tip line and said he had info on the case from being at the trails. Then the Natural Resources officer, I'd say DNR guy, met him at a GROCERY store. Wasn't much of an interview if you ask me from what is said here. Allen mentioned seeing the three girls and some cars but nothing he noted while he watched his stock ticker on his phone.

This short interview of Allen looks like someone just meeting someone informally to get some short tip info who was at the bridge and almost like the guy never even put together this MAN was AT the bridge/traisl and COULD be the suspect.

So the note or question the "officer" took from this meeting or to follow up on was "who were the three girls?" :thud:

So he is talking to a GUY who was AT the bridge and his takeaway is just nothingness, minor interview, potential followup is noted to just find out more about the three girls walking at the bridge.

What kind of idiot is this guy,he is talking to a man who was AT THE BRIDGE. He was THERE. It goes into Dulin's "report" and more. Some stuff I hadn't heard. Dulin is the sole thing allegedly that places Allen at the bridge at the right time but apparently he did NOT record it, claims he did, and LATER when recorded Allen changed the time he was there.

Worth a watch.



for what it's worth ... with a nod to context being EVERYTHING:

Maybeeeeee ... The Dept. Natural Resources guy was provided (by LE/investigators) with info/context/ BG guy-suspect physical description that focused his attention ...

A physical description of the BG from LE might have eliminated the possibility that a 5'5" chubby dude could be an actual person of interest.
So when interviewing RA ... DNR guy may have pegged RA as not matching the suspect description. To DNR's mind (perhaps) RA was one of a number of park-going witnesses who stepped forward as LE reached out to potential witnesses. :thinking:
 
Interesting to see folks sharing their reasonable doubt thought process.
Thinking what the heck; I'll share where I fall on the spectrum at this juncture pre-trial...

IMO, a non-granular summary of Q's and D's (Doubts):

Doubt in the investigative process itself. Doubt in the local pushback/rejection of FBI investigation assistance to speed up that process. Doubt in the sudden, years late "discovery" of a "clerical error" as to RA - who came forward immediately to voluntarily put himself at the bridge at the right time? (The clown show of that omission is patently absurd and throws doubt on the entire investigative process, IMO.) There's been one theory worked all along; the phone-video capture of BG = a video of the likley BG the killer walking the girls "down the hill". Does RA physically match the forensically calculated BG the killer height estimates? Is RA clothing vs BG clothing vs witness bloody clothing reports vs scene fibers ... conclusive? Doubt in ballistics evidence. Is there doubt in the voice forensics? Is there conclusive DNA evidence?

Point being, without the jailhouse "confession" - the context of which we don't understand yet - there's plenty for defense to poke at in order to create reasonable doubt.

Not a minor area of doubt to eliminate: Is the in-prison "confession" legit? Was it coerced by abusive prison environment/conditions, by psych considerations such as prescribed meds, stress, lack of sleep, confusion? Any of these conditions make the confession worthy of being ruled out of consideration. (Confessions under duress ... have been retracted - and thrown out - in many many other cases.)
 
Haven't had a chance to watch it yet, I keep starting but am multitasking my life issues right now after a long day and keep having to back it up as I miss things. State responded.

Maybe someone can watch. I am sure she has full on coverage of what is in the filing, the legit stuff, as she is a document type of person.

 
MSN

Well then.

Guard signed an affidavit swearing to his odonism-symbol-identifying-patch worn in support of his norse pagan heathenry beliefs "that are NOT odonism" ... so ... all's well in solitary, clearly. :unsure:

Prosecutor says Delphi murders suspect is safe despite correctional officers possibly wearing Odinism patches

Both correctional officers reportedly denied practicing Odinism but admitted to wearing patches on their uniforms that can be — but they said are not — associated with Odinism. The correctional officers allegedly said they stopped wearing the patches on their uniforms last month when they were asked to remove them.

That correctional officer told prosecutors that Allen was tased twice between May 9 and May 25 because he did not comply with the officers’ orders.
 


here's a few folks who have the same consternation and questions I have ... - "HOW DOES THIS MAKE SENSE?" - what have ya got on RA ...??

no dna, no electronic data evidence, no gps, no phone stuff. it's a circumstantial case. there seems to be enough info out that ... now we know.

Also Delphi police admit the case is still "open". Why is the case still "open"?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
2,999
Messages
238,551
Members
953
Latest member
dayday
Back
Top Bottom