LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]

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Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]


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This whole patch thing confuses me. These are correctional employees who wear uniforms. Since when are they allowed to decorate them?
I know here they are allowed but only for officially sanctioned causes, etc. BUT there are some that just go ahead and add patches of their desire until they are caught and told to remove them IF they are told to remove them. You know, the good ol boys club where members can do no wrong.
 
So these patches COULD be associated with Odinism, but they're not. Here's my question: What do they mean? How did they know they COULD be associated with Odinism? If I was wearing a patch, ON MY UNIFORM, I'd know what it means. Why didn't anyone question them the first day they put them on?

This makes Allen's story A LOT more believable. Allen said that "Two Guards" were wearing Odinism patches, but NO, NO, NO, they aren't Odinism patches.

:rolleyes:
They know. They most definitely know.
 
Agree with you that the guards should be disciplined ... and ... that the warden's response is very protective of them.

Regardless, we have guards w/ patches are wearing the symbols of White Nationalists (symbols hijacked from odinism). Per defense's loooong argument on this topic ... the guards tased RA twice for not "cooperating with their orders". RA is this little dude - kept separately from gen-pop. WHAT THE HECK do they need to tase him twice for? Not explained in papers - I dunno but one would think the tasing report is in the papers somewhere? I don't have time to go through them...

Perhaps b/c they are indeed white nationalist members, or perhaps it just makes their job easier, makes them seem sympathetic to the prison population, or even lends some protection to them from violent inmates. I'm not sure why anyone would want to wear blatant racist patches on their sleeve while serving as a prison officer where there's a great deal of racial diversity.

In reading about this particular prison, I've learned that the wings are segregated by race. So perhaps the guards feel the patches help them get more cooperation with the inmate population they are assigned to ... but ... in fact ... both guards have admitted that they are "pagan practitioners of "Norse Heathenry". (Which, I'm sorry - and no offense to practicing pagans - but in this particular uniformed situation ... is entirely ridiculous ... and I CANNOT believe these guards. Either they are white nationalists wearing the patches to work - or - because they work with white nationalist prisoners, they got creative and felt the patches would protect them/make their work easier/smoother. The latter making them - perhaps not actual white nationalists, but, actually lacking good judgement. IMO.)
and they could just be plain ol azzholes on a power trip.
 
Wearing a patch on your UNIFORM for an organization, but you are not affiliated with that organization????? Yeah, right. That makes no sense. Not buying it. Not buying that they have the wrong guy in custody either. He might not be the only one though and that they definitely need to keep investigating until either others are all cleared or they are charged.

At the moment - after seeing the crime scene photos - I feel more like one person did this (rather than many). And it was planned.

I'll be very relieved if the prosecution's case presents compelling facts and evidence nailing RA in specific ways.

I think that most recent defense strategy includes proving the investigation was a hot mess and that the evidence points to a number of POIs ... more strongly than it points to the defendant. Why where those POI investigations abandoned? (That's the game, right?)

Another defense strategy is to get RA out of that prison while he awaits trial. The odinism report to the Judge tries to kill 2 birds with one long long long research paper on odinism. 🥱
 
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At the moment - after seeing the crime scene photos - I teel more like one person did this (rather than many). And it was planned.

I'll be very relieved if the prosecution's case presents compelling facts and evidence nailing RA in specific ways.

I think that most recent defense strategy includes proving the investigation was a hot mess and that the evidence points to a number of POIs ... more strongly than it points to the defendant. Why where those POI investigations abandoned? (That's the game, right?)

Another defense strategy is to get RA out of that prison while he awaits trial. The odinism report to the Judge tries to kill 2 birds with one long long long research paper on odinism. 🥱
Isn't that was most defense strategies are, especially if you know your client is guilty?
 
Isn't that was most defense strategies are, especially if you know your client is guilty?
absolutely ... whether you believe your client's innocence or not ... discrediting the investigation and its experts and raising questions as to other obvious potential suspects its a standard tactic for the defense.

Of course the best way to discredit the investigation is to present exculpatory evidence.

Such as, "Your witness described a car that has nothing to do with my client's car, not even close." And "your other witness said your POI sketch that somewhat resembles my client was completely wrong and resulted in you issuing 2 POI sketches". And, "my client's jacket you claim to be the jacket in the video is not even close to the jacket in the photo - the zippers and pockets don't match up."

RA asked for a TELEVISED PUBLIC TRIAL ... who hoo ... Will it be granted?
 
Ima!!! :shower: longtime no see!! Hope you and your family are well!

I think it was used in the context of they are still currently looking at ... an old list of POIs?
It's so good to see you!!! 🥰 We are all doing well, hope you and your family are doing good too!!!

Ok, I see what your saying now. I haven't had a chance to listen to the shows you posted yet.
 
The problem I've always had with RA is why didn't anyone recognize him working at CVS? and they know him now? I've just never understood that and it keeps coming back to me. I hope they can explain that.
 
Ima!!! :shower: longtime no see!! Hope you and your family are well!

I think it was used in the context of they are still currently looking at ... an old list of POIs?

Thanks Grandma ... that is a long you-tube "podcast" but I found it very interesting ... if/when folks get a chance to listen while they exercise or cook or do some housekeeping ... maybe consider having a listen. These folks (lawyers and the very experienced investigative crime reporter/producer and creator of "Down the Hill" are well-versed in reading criminal motions. I'll give a bit of a rundown for ya, but listen when/if you can.

They agree that the defense's discussion and expert (same as LE's expert) don't suggest an ACTUAL sacrifice/ritual of odinism but a staging by someone familiar w/ the symbols - much like the white nationalists stealing odinistic symbols for their cute little secret wink-wink gang patches (the prison guards).

They agree few experts think the bullet casing will hold up with a jury once experts provide their opinion on that - one issue being that a gun wasn't the murder weapon; another being that LE itself has that type of gun, that would leave same. They also felt - from the murder site photos - LE/investigators blew it from the very start. LE found the girls relatively quickly (a great thing in this business - a relatively fresh site rich with evidence). Photos show us ... abundance of evidence at the site. They took pictures of blood stamp on a tree and never took the tree as evidence to the lab. They took pictures of the branches, but never took them in to evidence. Who takes pictures of evidence without taking the evidence for documentation and study? These things the murderer clearly put their hands on ... they left in the woods. Treating the site in this unprofessional manner ... explains lack of physical evidence and ... makes the case fully circumstantial.

Defense has all of RA's phones since he ever had phones b/c RA never threw one out. They have all his computers covering the timeframe. Apparently, nothing on the electronic data was worthy of being put into evidence. Not even his search terms. They have the FAMOUS BG video and the 2 completely different composites - and now that's become problematic in that RA is 5' 4" ... forensic experts would have to agree that the BG is easily 5'4 ... when expert forensics had already agreed that BG was RL's height (closer to 6 ft).

The parked car make/model ... is also in question. They have RA coming forward timely like other concerned citizens who were at the park - and - when he came forward - his walking route described - did NOT include the bridge. RA does not put himself at the scene of the crime; not even the bridge.

The criminal lawyers on the podcast get the impression that the prosecutor McLeland (maybe being overworked) did not review all the evidence prior to handing it over... And they all agree that the leads investigation was the picture of distraction, inexplicably dropping so many leads being investigated - replacing and cancelling follow-thru without reason, failures to finish the work required to be able to say we've exhausted those particular leads; and that those leads - based on the info currently available - should still be followed to their end. Another story (as to investigative process) develops that raises the questions of competence, possibly intentional incompetence, and corruption.
I have heard much of this, maybe one of them was a guest on another show I watch or something. Or others have mentioned similar info.

You mean the prosecution has he phones and computers don't you? Although of course defense would get all discovery too. I can only say I don't think the defense would bring up something incriminating against Allen found on such things and the prosecution isn't sharing the evidence with the public so who knows.. If they can go back far enough it should show where Allen's phone was that day and in what status... Defense wants badly to get that warrant ditched and I think it may be due to more than the bullet casing. You say most think it won't hold up but if not, then the defense sure put a lot of effort in to get the warrant found illegal just for that reason alone...

I tend to disagree on the casing. I could go find you a show I watched that says just the opposite and what good evidence it is and from someone who was trained in it. He did have another disagree with him and honestly most defense experts try to make anything sound like junk science so that doesn['t mean much to me. I guess it will be a battle of the experts on that evidence and I have little doubt the prosecution will have a good one well versed in it and the jury will have to decide who to believe.

I am sure they make a good argument as will I suppose the defense however, I think they may have went too far out there with the thing for a sane jury when they could have just poked big holes in these other things. Remains to be seen I guess.

For me, if the car doesn't match or height doesn't match, or if a juror or we even wonder, etc. Allen was still there and places himself there in the park/trail site and the casing places him at the actual crime site. I'd like to hear his voice and find it interesting we haven['t from anyone or in any way, shape or form. Of course I am also hoping there is even more, again, prosecution has shared NOTHING willingly with the public, all that is know is what has had to be filed to charge and such. I hope the search resulted in some good things and that's why the effort with this motion to get it thrown out and the making it outrageous and fragrantly ensuring the public saw it all before it was sealed. Finding evidence five years after the fact may be iffy at best BUT if he was the type of guy to keep every cell phone, and his jacket and more per his wife, then he likely kept a lot of other things as well....

As for Delphi LE yeah I have been less than impressed many a time...The DNR guy along is a big black eye and he all on his own severely damaged this case. Now we are dealing with memories how many years old once Allen was named... All that so many have been through due to that, mainly the famiilies but MANY people, man hours, efforts, fears...

Where is Doug Carter in all of this now and what does he have to say? Just a rhetorical question as the prosecution side and LE isn't going to talk to the public prior to trial...

The only ones making it a sh*t show are Allen and the defense. Prosecution is actually behaving as professionals. Granted the other idiots aside from DNR guy are the two guards.

I think of it as a dot to dot puzzle. You know how the picture is on one page when completed? Well the defense connected dots but those dots are on different pages so it doesn't gel. You can't do that and get the picture that should result. or they want to result.
 
Oh! So sorry if the link wasn't the link I intended to provide. ... I should have checked it after posting. I will check it and - if it's not right - I'll place the correct link (s) with regard to the expert in forensics that LE hired to estimate BG's height ... and her report ... and her current understanding that RA doesn't = BG per forensics ... on this thread later today.
Don't worry about it, not a big deal and you sure don't need to apologize. I get it was about height and experts and how they won't use outside ones or something like that right?
 
Agree with you that the guards should be disciplined ... and ... that the warden's response is very protective of them.

Regardless, we have guards w/ patches are wearing the symbols of White Nationalists (symbols hijacked from odinism). Per defense's loooong argument on this topic ... the guards tased RA twice for not "cooperating with their orders". RA is this little dude - kept separately from gen-pop. WHAT THE HECK do they need to tase him twice for? Not explained in papers - I dunno but one would think the tasing report is in the papers somewhere? I don't have time to go through them...

Perhaps b/c they are indeed white nationalist members, or perhaps it just makes their job easier, makes them seem sympathetic to the prison population, or even lends some protection to them from violent inmates. I'm not sure why anyone would want to wear blatant racist patches on their sleeve while serving as a prison officer where there's a great deal of racial diversity.

In reading about this particular prison, I've learned that the wings are segregated by race. So perhaps the guards feel the patches help them get more cooperation with the inmate population they are assigned to ... but ... in fact ... both guards have admitted that they are "pagan practitioners of "Norse Heathenry". (Which, I'm sorry - and no offense to practicing pagans - but in this particular uniformed situation ... is entirely ridiculous ... and I CANNOT believe these guards. Either they are white nationalists wearing the patches to work - or - because they work with white nationalist prisoners, they got creative and felt the patches would protect them/make their work easier/smoother. The latter making them - perhaps not actual white nationalists, but, actually lacking good judgement. IMO.)
It HAS/DID cross my mind that wearing such may assist in some regard to their job with some prisoners.

You don't have time to go through and I can promise you have been through more than me because no time either at all but I am not even convinced nor know enough about the White Nationalist thing. Have the patches been seen and are KNOWN to mean that? It is really where some of their "suggestions" or "claims" start to fall down. Abby and Libby were white teens. I've heard the suggestion of some such sh*t that Abby's mom was dating someone who wasn't white or some such that could be why. That sounds soooo far fetched. Is the guy Abby's father??? What does Abby have to do with that? So these Os hate or pick out Abby and Libby to KILL and do a horrendous act on. Then Allen is arrested and they hate him for what? Being accused of killing two white girls that they killed? Or is it more likely they allegedly toy with him BECAUSE he killed two white girls in which case they did NOT kill them, HE did. Can't have it both ways. OR just as likely, they have done NOTHING TO HIM and he is creating these twistis and turns. On that part, are his lawyers lying, is Allen lying to them OR are the guards and the officials lying...???

I worked til past 9 and could go on but I need to leave it and catch up with a lot of things and hopefully some other posts on this and other cases too. HOPEFULLY. So far behind.

Can anyone tell me what the connection is between these guards and Abby's bf's father? I don't mean an O connection. I am Lutheran but not practicing/attending but have I ever been to church with anyone else here Lutheran or practiced the same things? NO. That is such a ridiculous jump and they missed all the dots. Can anyone tell me how two guards in a prison he is in TIE to any group of Os they know or practice with (meaning they don't, no proof of any such thing) having killed the girls?

It's funny this defense went on about how this prison is TOO far from Delphi for family and for even hem to travel to to meet with him. Now they'd have you think the guards working there are tight knit with Os from the Delphi and surrounding area. Some smart attorneys need to pick their double speak apart...
 
Just FYI:

@GrandmaBear couldn't find the info easily so here's alternative directions to same thread on twitter, in thread reader app form:

Thread by @The_unraveling8 on Thread Reader App
Okay that was very GOOD and very STRIKING. This link worked. BAsed on time and level of tired I almost didn't go look at it thinking it was just another one of various experts, good but many, etc. and about height.

IF all said about her is true and IF she goes by exclusion, this in her opinion IS Ron Logan. I'm not going to jump on board because I don't have time to source it all and look into it more and her and who wrote this and so forth and how it came about but with what has been going on from the start and some differences in some things long before any defense filing, this fits with alternative thoughts I have which STILL include Allen. I've never ruled Logan out. I also have never ruled Kline out as involved in some manner. But Allen is still in there no matter. I also have never ruled out more than one. My posts show that, even recently, talking of like a "deer drive".
 
I have heard much of this, maybe one of them was a guest on another show I watch or something. Or others have mentioned similar info.

You mean the prosecution has he phones and computers don't you? Although of course defense would get all discovery too. I can only say I don't think the defense would bring up something incriminating against Allen found on such things and the prosecution isn't sharing the evidence with the public so who knows.. If they can go back far enough it should show where Allen's phone was that day and in what status... Defense wants badly to get that warrant ditched and I think it may be due to more than the bullet casing. You say most think it won't hold up but if not, then the defense sure put a lot of effort in to get the warrant found illegal just for that reason alone...

I tend to disagree on the casing. I could go find you a show I watched that says just the opposite and what good evidence it is and from someone who was trained in it. He did have another disagree with him and honestly most defense experts try to make anything sound like junk science so that doesn['t mean much to me. I guess it will be a battle of the experts on that evidence and I have little doubt the prosecution will have a good one well versed in it and the jury will have to decide who to believe.

I am sure they make a good argument as will I suppose the defense however, I think they may have went too far out there with the thing for a sane jury when they could have just poked big holes in these other things. Remains to be seen I guess.

For me, if the car doesn't match or height doesn't match, or if a juror or we even wonder, etc. Allen was still there and places himself there in the park/trail site and the casing places him at the actual crime site. I'd like to hear his voice and find it interesting we haven['t from anyone or in any way, shape or form. Of course I am also hoping there is even more, again, prosecution has shared NOTHING willingly with the public, all that is know is what has had to be filed to charge and such. I hope the search resulted in some good things and that's why the effort with this motion to get it thrown out and the making it outrageous and fragrantly ensuring the public saw it all before it was sealed. Finding evidence five years after the fact may be iffy at best BUT if he was the type of guy to keep every cell phone, and his jacket and more per his wife, then he likely kept a lot of other things as well....

As for Delphi LE yeah I have been less than impressed many a time...The DNR guy along is a big black eye and he all on his own severely damaged this case. Now we are dealing with memories how many years old once Allen was named... All that so many have been through due to that, mainly the famiilies but MANY people, man hours, efforts, fears...

Where is Doug Carter in all of this now and what does he have to say? Just a rhetorical question as the prosecution side and LE isn't going to talk to the public prior to trial...

The only ones making it a sh*t show are Allen and the defense. Prosecution is actually behaving as professionals. Granted the other idiots aside from DNR guy are the two guards.

I think of it as a dot to dot puzzle. You know how the picture is on one page when completed? Well the defense connected dots but those dots are on different pages so it doesn't gel. You can't do that and get the picture that should result. or they want to result.
How did the DNR guy severely damage this case? He took a tip, turned it in, and no one followed up on it. I'm curious how that's on him.
 

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