LIBBY GERMAN & ABBY WILLIAMS: Indiana vs. Richard Allen for 2017 murder of two Delphi girls *TRIAL IN PROGRESS*

On February 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams and Liberty German were discovered near the Monon High Bridge Trail, which is part of the Delphi Historic Trails in Delphi, Indiana, United States, after the young girls had disappeared from the same trail the previous day. The murders have received significant media coverage because a photo and audio recording of an individual believed to be the girls' murderer was found on German's smartphone. Despite the audio and video recordings of the suspect that have been circulated and the more than 26,000 tips that police have received, no arrest in the case has been made.[1][2][3]



Police have not publicly stated nor released details of how the girls were murdered.[6] As early as February 15, 2017, Indiana State Police began circulating a still image of an individual reportedly seen on the Monon High Bridge Trail near where the two friends were slain; the grainy photograph appearing to capture a Caucasian male, with hands in pockets, walking on the rail bridge, head down, toward the girls.[4] A few days later, the person in the photograph was named the prime suspect in the double-homicide.[5]

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant,[7] though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." It was at this news conference that officials credited the source of the audio and imagery to German's smartphone, and, further, regarded her as a hero for having had the uncanny foresight and fortitude to record the exchange in secret. Police indicated that additional evidence from the phone had been secured, but that they did not release it so as not to "compromise any future trial." By this time, the reward offered in the case was set at $41,000.[5]

Murders of Abigail Williams and Liberty German - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

On Feb 14, 2017, the bodies of Abigail Williams & Liberty German were discovered in Delphi, #INDIANA. The suspect in their deaths is awaiting trial.

On February 22, law enforcement released an audio recording where the voice of the assailant, though in some degree muffled, is heard to say, "Down the hill." Even with a lot of media coverage, their murders remain unsolved.

www.crimewatchers.net

 

[Guess Who]

How did the DNR guy severely damage this case? He took a tip, turned it in, and no one followed up on it. I'm curious how that's on him.

He probably assumed his lead was followed up on and investigated as most of us would.

 

[GrandmaBear]

How did the DNR guy severely damage this case? He took a tip, turned it in, and no one followed up on it. I'm curious how that's on him.

He put the wrong name down in the last name field. He put the street name in that field. His recommended follow up if they had seen the tip was to find out who the three girls were. He claims to have recorded it and lo and behold no recording can be found. He had a man who was AT the bridge and never followed up or asked anyone in all the years with PC after PC and frustrations well the only one I can think of was that guy I me at the grocery store, Richard Whitehurst, whatever came of that because he was AT the bridge?

I don't know, that's just a start, but it is all just such a nonfunny comedy of errors. Common sense and logic? You have a DOUBLE murder of two young girls in a small town. HUGE. What would you do if you found you were interviewing a man who was actually THERE at the right time, the right place and more? Of course we aren't in his shoes but can guess quite intelligently that in my head it would go something like this:

1. This guy was there, right time, right place, is local, etc.

2. I need to tell my supervisors or the sheriff, etc. and make sure his info is entered into the system correctly too and double check it all.

3. I definitely need to record this and I need to make sure the recording is marked, filed and done so correctly AND I need to make sure I discuss it with a supervisor or someone and get it into the right hands. (where are the recordings to go actually and to who, now I am wondering???)

4. This is someone a real cop should follow up with, I need to be sure they know that, he was there, etc., etc. Something beyond a grocery store interview needs to be next.

5. Notes on follow up should go like the above, not find out who the three girls were or that alone certainly.

6. Time passes, Mr. DNR needs to go double check why all the above hasn't occurred. Years pass. No perp is found. No Mr. Whitehurst is ever mentioned or looked at. I need to find out how they cleared him because I did all of the above and nothing seemed to come of it (he didn't do any such things)...

I could go on but don't have time and actually others have heads that should maybe roll in this. What WERE his directions? WHO sent him out? Was he to record and WHERE was that recording to go? Who taught him how to fill out the info or ensured he was capable of doing this job in a double murder case??

 

[Tresir]

The problem I've always had with RA is why didn't anyone recognize him working at CVS? and they know him now? I've just never understood that and it keeps coming back to me. I hope they can explain that.

I think it was mainly kids that saw him on the trails, who may not actually ever use pharmacy services, as their parents would buy most of their stuff. There was one adult witness who saw him and passed the girls but I am not even sure that person was from Delphi.

 

[GrandmaBear]

At the moment - after seeing the crime scene photos - I feel more like one person did this (rather than many). And it was planned.

I'll be very relieved if the prosecution's case presents compelling facts and evidence nailing RA in specific ways.

I think that most recent defense strategy includes proving the investigation was a hot mess and that the evidence points to a number of POIs ... more strongly than it points to the defendant. Why where those POI investigations abandoned? (That's the game, right?)

Another defense strategy is to get RA out of that prison while he awaits trial. The odinism report to the Judge tries to kill 2 birds with one long long long research paper on odinism.

My overall leaning agrees with yours, one person and planned. I have not however ruled out more than one.

That motion was really written in a juvenile rather than professional way and as I said connects a lot of dots that aren't on the same page, in the same puzzle. One could use a jigsaw puzzle analogy as well with pieces from another puzzle.

It is sensationalistic and needlessly outed some graphic details imo, anything to fuzz it all up, get reaction and so on.

The wheat if any in it needs to be clear of their chaff, the dust it caused has to settle to see clearly and is imo but for some that still have taken off with it out there and continue to.

I really wish I had more time because I'd read and try to look at what the defense stayed away from or did not mention as to who, what, where, why, etc... And more.

Reading between the lines. It is a given NOTHING is going to be mentioned that hurts their client.

We have to remember they have it all. There is I think we can agree they have cherry picked from all.

I know any defense has a reason to try to throw kinks and get warrants and searches thrown out or found to be illegal, etc. but I am starting to think this is not just about matching the bullet casing. That's enough certainly although it can be said it will be talked at trial by some expert they get of how worthless it is while pros expert will say otherwise but in same breath defense is so worried about it the put in this huge effort on this sensational motion???

I am starting to suspect there is more. More than just the casing that they found with their search...

Maybe I am just hoping. BUT this man was the type to keep things right........

 

[Guess Who]

I think it was mainly kids that saw him on the trails, who may not actually ever use pharmacy services, as their parents would buy most of their stuff. There was one adult witness who saw him and passed the girls but I am not even sure that person was from Delphi.

And for all we know, many might have thought about it being him but they thought "surely not" and dismissed it or just never acted on it..

 

[GrandmaBear]

He probably assumed his lead was followed up on and investigated as most of us would.

I don't know. First off who sent him out on this lead/tip? What did Allen's tip say? That he was on the trails at that date and time? What were his instructions?

I think if I lived somewhere small like Delphi (and I have) and something like this happened, I'd go walk right into the PD to talk to them about the fact I was three and am here to provide what I can. He called the tip line though didn't he? Or some such?

 

[Guess Who]

I don't know. First off who sent him out on this lead/tip? What did Allen's tip say? That he was on the trails at that date and time? What were his instructions?

I think if I lived somewhere small like Delphi (and I have) and something like this happened, I'd go walk right into the PD to talk to them about the fact I was three and am here to provide what I can. He called the tip line though didn't he? Or some such?

and again, most that call a tip line would assume the tip was investigated and what you provided was either nothing or was something and they weren't going to announce that it meant something.

 

[Tresir]

RA admits to being on the bridge watching fish and also watching his stock ticker on his phone. If they have all the cell tower dumps from that day they should be able to find his phone on it, with a time that corresponds to exactly when the girls were there too. I don't see him getting away with this at all and he has also confessed to it 5 times so far, on recorded phone calls.

His best bet is to negotiate a plea deal.

 

[GrandmaBear]

and again, most that call a tip line would assume the tip was investigated and what you provided was either nothing or was something and they weren't going to announce that it meant something.

I called a tip line only ONCE In my life and I don't think it was an anonymous one or anything like that (i wouldn't care) and I debated and debated as I didn't want to add more work to an investigation but it isn't like I was AT a scene. Like ALLEN WAS.

I don't want to share details or case but let's just say there was a car in the driveway of the murder and other crimes and because we could in our state, I ran the plate just on what an individual could do and it did not match the vehicle the plate was on... It wasn't the suspect's vehicle, it would have been a victim's vehicle...

Anyhow, I discussed it with a few trusted friends and finally called the tip line. It was a case that had the feds in on it and of course the local authority. Not sure who was manning the line when I called but I believe it was a weekend, not sure, but I felt she didn't know sh*t and didn't understand what I was saying. It felt dismissive and bothersome and why I did not call as I wasn't sure BUT you'd have to know the case and how lost they were and how it ended up to get that it should have been at least said to have been explored or will be... Or seem to at least understand what I was saying and why...

The point I am trying to make is i did not leave the conversation feeling the tip was being investigated at all or would be looked into, just the opposite. To this day I feel that way and it bothers me. The case was eventually solved and the perp is in prison but it still bothers me that that was never answered....

I ONLY have not followed up because an arrest was made, answers came but not on that. IF they hadn't, I would have followed up as they did not have answers and didn't seem to be doing anything and the way it was solved was NOT due to LE....

So back to your post, I assumed no such thing after my long debated call and to this day feel it fell on deaf ears and still don't know the answer...

 

[GrandmaBear]

RA admits to being on the bridge watching fish and also watching his stock ticker on his phone. If they have all the cell tower dumps from that day they should be able to find his phone on it, with a time that corresponds to exactly when the girls were there too. I don't see him getting away with this at all and he has also confessed to it 5 times so far, on recorded phone calls.

His best bet is to negotiate a plea deal.

I so agree. This is one case we agree on. Not that all the dust and fluff and stuff they try to throw out there may not have an effect, when it all comes down to settle, with a GOOD AVERAGE JURY Allen is the one. It has done so for me.

At best all they filed did would put him with the Os. Nothing about it takes him out of it, takes him away from it, and he confessed, repeatedly.

Yep stock ticker tape, etc. his phone there.

GREAT points.

 

[Guess Who]

RA admits to being on the bridge watching fish and also watching his stock ticker on his phone. If they have all the cell tower dumps from that day they should be able to find his phone on it, with a time that corresponds to exactly when the girls were there too. I don't see him getting away with this at all and he has also confessed to it 5 times so far, on recorded phone calls.

His best bet is to negotiate a plea deal.

Yeah, I not seeing it as him not being responsible for it. Too many "coincidences" that fit with him being right there at that very time, her pic looking just like him, the casing that matched his gun, etc.

I also am glad it seems that they are also investigating that others might have been involved either with this case or with other things Allen might be involved in.

 

[Guess Who]

I am also glad the guards have been busted for wearing the patches. I am sure they are not the only two guards in the place that wore them. Hopefully, at the very least, rules will be made and followed about that and similar issues.

 

[Olenna]

Pros with experience profiling sexual violence crimes have taken a look at this crime and provided commentary..
Elements point to local familiarity, planning and a typical psych profile for misogynistic sexual violence offenders.
None see strong argument for involvement of others.

I'm just using this space to park a list - for myself - to look back as case/trial progresses.
List is just MOO listing stuff -and nothing else.
List is based on case info in public record now - and commentary avail on social media from qualified experts that do this stuff for a living.

Perp was a local; extremely familiar with this trail and off-trail surrounds.
Perp was armed/ready on the day should the opportunity arrive; carried tools he needed (gun, knife, gloves(?)) for a trail walk. (planning)
Perp selected victims due to happenstance/opportunity of victims being in right place, right time.
Perp, local; knew area of park that was more isolated. (planning/familiarity).
Perp, local; knew bridge, stream depth for crossing, for cleanup (planning/familiarity).
Perp, local; familiar with park traffic patterns. (planning/familiarity)
Perp, local; aware of a school holiday? (planning/familiarity/has kids/know school schedule?)
Perp, local; chose the bridge location in advance, knew destination (down the hill), knew the creek curve, w/ low foot traffic, low visibility venue. (planning)
Perp chose bright winter (Feb) day, cold, no snow. (planning)
Perp required no darkness cover; time of death determined to be mid-afternoon. (planning)
Perp's (BG) clothing/hat is typically local, nondescript; would not draw attention. (planning)
Perp likely had prepped an alibi (planning).
Perp arrived and left scene by foot. (planning).
Perp didn't necessarily need a vehicle. (planning/fitness).
Perp didn't need much time for the murder committed. (planning).
Perp's crime and planning anticipated aftermath. (planning/ability to leave scene undetected; ability to evade investigation)
Perp had victim control, quiet force, girls didn't scream; cooperated. (gun/planning)
Perp was confident; 2 victims - no problem (psych profile)
Perp familiar with quick knife kills - (knife/planning)
Perp likely hunts/fishes (comfortable outdoors/woods/knife)
Perp is an intelligent person. (degree of planning, problem solving ability, success)
Perp is reasonably physically fit. (capable of moving quickly, moving bodies, negotiating rough terrain)
Perp's process suggests some understanding of and ability to evade LE investigation.
Perp moved bodies (planning/problem solving/evasion).
Perp staged bodies (misleading/planning/evasion).
Prep had hand gun. (BG video.)
Perp comfortable with/likely owns/conceal-carries hand gun. (psych profile/lifestyle)
Perp hunts/has used knife to kill prey. (hunt/kill/anatomy/skills/lifestyle)
Perp chose gun for control but knife over gun to kill victims. (planning/evasion)
Perp may have used more than one location during crime, directing movement via control by weapon.
Perp likely forced victims to undress themselves and may have had one victim re-dress herself.
Perp likely got sexual voyeur satisfaction from controlling/witnessing these actions of the victims.
Perp MAY be familiar w/ runes used as white nationalist symbols/member patches, etc. (misleading via staging)
Perp's (BG) height range can be calculated/estimated within a few inches. (video)
Perp's (BG) voice can be analyzed. (video)
Perp white, male, reasonably fit. (BG video confirms but so would a psych profile)
Perp controlled undressing/redressing. (psych profile)
Perp likely has history of abuse/violence/trauma/psych issues.(psych profile)
Perp likely has behavior tells (violent porn, temper, anger, need to control, socially awkward, disrespect for/issues with women, mother, girlfriend, wife)
Perp may have relocated after murders. (planning/profile)
Perp may have relocated prior to murders, keeping family local ties. (planning/profile)
Perp may have since been incarcerated, or deceased given no further events. (profile)

 

[Cousin Dupree]

I have heard much of this, maybe one of them was a guest on another show I watch or something. Or others have mentioned similar info.

You mean the prosecution has he phones and computers don't you? Although of course defense would get all discovery too. I can only say I don't think the defense would bring up something incriminating against Allen found on such things and the prosecution isn't sharing the evidence with the public so who knows.. If they can go back far enough it should show where Allen's phone was that day and in what status... Defense wants badly to get that warrant ditched and I think it may be due to more than the bullet casing. You say most think it won't hold up but if not, then the defense sure put a lot of effort in to get the warrant found illegal just for that reason alone...

I tend to disagree on the casing. I could go find you a show I watched that says just the opposite and what good evidence it is and from someone who was trained in it. He did have another disagree with him and honestly most defense experts try to make anything sound like junk science so that doesn['t mean much to me. I guess it will be a battle of the experts on that evidence and I have little doubt the prosecution will have a good one well versed in it and the jury will have to decide who to believe.

I am sure they make a good argument as will I suppose the defense however, I think they may have went too far out there with the thing for a sane jury when they could have just poked big holes in these other things. Remains to be seen I guess.

For me, if the car doesn't match or height doesn't match, or if a juror or we even wonder, etc. Allen was still there and places himself there in the park/trail site and the casing places him at the actual crime site. I'd like to hear his voice and find it interesting we haven['t from anyone or in any way, shape or form. Of course I am also hoping there is even more, again, prosecution has shared NOTHING willingly with the public, all that is know is what has had to be filed to charge and such. I hope the search resulted in some good things and that's why the effort with this motion to get it thrown out and the making it outrageous and fragrantly ensuring the public saw it all before it was sealed. Finding evidence five years after the fact may be iffy at best BUT if he was the type of guy to keep every cell phone, and his jacket and more per his wife, then he likely kept a lot of other things as well....

As for Delphi LE yeah I have been less than impressed many a time...The DNR guy along is a big black eye and he all on his own severely damaged this case. Now we are dealing with memories how many years old once Allen was named... All that so many have been through due to that, mainly the famiilies but MANY people, man hours, efforts, fears...

Where is Doug Carter in all of this now and what does he have to say? Just a rhetorical question as the prosecution side and LE isn't going to talk to the public prior to trial...

The only ones making it a sh*t show are Allen and the defense. Prosecution is actually behaving as professionals. Granted the other idiots aside from DNR guy are the two guards.

I think of it as a dot to dot puzzle. You know how the picture is on one page when completed? Well the defense connected dots but those dots are on different pages so it doesn't gel. You can't do that and get the picture that should result. or they want to result.

When the prosecution withholds evidence from the defense, they aren't acting professionally.

 

[Cousin Dupree]

They know. They most definitely know.

Yep!!

When they work in an environment that would allow those patches gives me that vibe. How many more wear those and what else have they allowed? If they are going to be that lax on what is allowed to be shown out in the public, what really happens behind closed doors? It definitely gives me the "good ol boys club" vibe.

It gives me the vibe that the prosecution knows it's a long road they'd be heading down if they start investigating the Odinism evidence. It could also be a dangerous road as well. They think they can convict him, and they don't care. This is a typical response from a lot of DA's.

IMO, there IS a connection to Odinists. I'm not saying RA is totally innocent. If he was, then he wouldn't have recognized the Odinism patches. He comes across as the chosen fall guy for this crime. I'm pretty sure others are involved. I'm convinced it was Ron Logan on the bridge. When asked by a reporter to say "Down the hill" while being interviewed he raises the pitch of his voice on the word "hill".

The defense says that the estimated height of the person on the bridge was far off from a 5'4" man. Two people who know Ron Logan were shown the video of BG, and said it was Ron Logan before being asked anything.

If the coat found in RA's house, was the one he wore that day, wouldn't there be blood on it? Even if it had been washed. It was a very bloody crime scene, reportedly. I've also heard that the police don't think they were killed on the spot they were found on. Also, the defense says that the person who saw a "muddy and bloody" man never said anything about "bloody" when initially questioned. That can be proven fairly easily if the original statement is still available.

As somebody already pointed out why didn't anyone recognize him while they were shopping at CVS?

It seems to me that the Odinism connection may not just be two prison guards, but others could be involved on the prosecution team.

According to the defense, when RA was tased (two different times), it was one or both of these guards involved.

This needs a much deeper investigation than appears to be going on. I don't believe that only one person did this alone. I want them ALL convicted. It's very odd that nobody asked those guards about the patches that, suddenly, were put on their shirts. They don't remove them until it was brought up by the defense that they had an Odinism connection.

Hopefully, there is stuff being done behind the scenes they aren't talking about.

 

[Guess Who]

If the coat found in RA's house, was the one he wore that day, wouldn't there be blood on it? Even if it had been washed. It was a very bloody crime scene, reportedly. I've also heard that the police don't think they were killed on the spot they were found on. Also, the defense says that the person who saw a "muddy and bloody" man never said anything about "bloody" when initially questioned. That can be proven fairly easily if the original statement is still available.

Wasn't it years later though? How many times was it washed over the years? Who's to say it didn't have traces of dna but not enough to get a match?

 

[Cousin Dupree]

RA admits to being on the bridge watching fish and also watching his stock ticker on his phone. If they have all the cell tower dumps from that day they should be able to find his phone on it, with a time that corresponds to exactly when the girls were there too. I don't see him getting away with this at all and he has also confessed to it 5 times so far, on recorded phone calls.

His best bet is to negotiate a plea deal.

If you're willing to just ignore the two guards wearing Odinist patches as coincidence, but I'm not.

 

[GrandmaBear]

Pros with experience profiling sexual violence crimes have taken a look at this crime and provided commentary..
Elements point to local familiarity, planning and a typical psych profile for misogynistic sexual violence offenders.
None see strong argument for involvement of others.

I'm just using this space to park a list - for myself - to look back as case/trial progresses.
List is just MOO listing stuff -and nothing else.
List is based on case info in public record now - and commentary avail on social media from qualified experts that do this stuff for a living.

Perp was a local; extremely familiar with this trail and off-trail surrounds.
Perp was armed/ready on the day should the opportunity arrive; carried tools he needed (gun, knife, gloves(?)) for a trail walk. (planning)
Perp selected victims due to happenstance/opportunity of victims being in right place, right time.
Perp, local; knew area of park that was more isolated. (planning/familiarity).
Perp, local; knew bridge, stream depth for crossing, for cleanup (planning/familiarity).
Perp, local; familiar with park traffic patterns. (planning/familiarity)
Perp, local; aware of a school holiday? (planning/familiarity/has kids/know school schedule?)
Perp, local; chose the bridge location in advance, knew destination (down the hill), knew the creek curve, w/ low foot traffic, low visibility venue. (planning)
Perp chose bright winter (Feb) day, cold, no snow. (planning)
Perp required no darkness cover; time of death determined to be mid-afternoon. (planning)
Perp's (BG) clothing/hat is typically local, nondescript; would not draw attention. (planning)
Perp likely had prepped an alibi (planning).
Perp arrived and left scene by foot. (planning).
Perp didn't necessarily need a vehicle. (planning/fitness).
Perp didn't need much time for the murder committed. (planning).
Perp's crime and planning anticipated aftermath. (planning/ability to leave scene undetected; ability to evade investigation)
Perp had victim control, quiet force, girls didn't scream; cooperated. (gun/planning)
Perp was confident; 2 victims - no problem (psych profile)
Perp familiar with quick knife kills - (knife/planning)
Perp likely hunts/fishes (comfortable outdoors/woods/knife)
Perp is an intelligent person. (degree of planning, problem solving ability, success)
Perp is reasonably physically fit. (capable of moving quickly, moving bodies, negotiating rough terrain)
Perp's process suggests some understanding of and ability to evade LE investigation.
Perp moved bodies (planning/problem solving/evasion).
Perp staged bodies (misleading/planning/evasion).
Prep had hand gun. (BG video.)
Perp comfortable with/likely owns/conceal-carries hand gun. (psych profile/lifestyle)
Perp hunts/has used knife to kill prey. (skills/lifestyle)
Perp chose gun for control but knife over gun to kill victims. (planning/evasion)
Perp may have used more than one location during crime, directing movement via control by weapon.
Perp likely forced victims to undress themselves and may have had one victim re-dress herself.
Perp likely got sexual voyeur satisfaction from controlling/witnessing these actions of the victims.
Perp MAY be familiar w/ runes used as white nationalist symbols/member patches, etc. (misleading via staging)
Perp's (BG) height range can be calculated/estimated within a few inches. (video)
Perp's (BG) voice can be analyzed. (video)
Perp white, male, reasonably fit. (BG video confirms but so would a psych profile)
Perp controlled undressing/redressing. (psych profile)
Perp has history of abuse/violence/trauma/psych issues.(psych profile)
Perp has behavior tells (violent porn, temper, anger, need to control, socially awkward, disrespect for/issues with women, mother, girlfriend, wife)
Perp may have relocated after murders. (planning/profile)
Perp may have relocated prior to murders, keeping family local ties. (planning/profile)
Perp may have since been incarcerated, or deceased given no further events. (profile)

This is awesome. Reading through it is Allen. Reading the defense stuff is entirely different. This fits. That doesn't. Just saying...

 

[GrandmaBear]

When the prosecution withholds evidence from the defense, they aren't acting professionally.

Depends on how you look at it. They have it all, just had to dig for it in the discovery. I'd agree though that certain behaviors that go on in most cases don't look good for either side. I think it's been said in this one that the prosecution has not received what the defense's investigation found, and I'm sure they mean ALL of it even that which did not benefit their client. Tit for tat. Yah, I don't agree with it but both sides do it or delay it or bury it.

What if one of the guards said and could prove he gave Allen extra cookies every day, do ya think the defense would share that? Not the same thing I get that but point is defense did an investigation, have they shared ALL that was found or said...

The common theme that seems to go on is we will give you all our stuff but it isn't our job to ferret it out for you and outline it or teach you how to open a file.

I partially agree though. But it has gotten ridiculous at the same time.

 

[Guess Who]

If you're willing to just ignore the two guards wearing Odinist patches as coincidence, but I'm not.

But it would mean more if it was only the two that were over him. Who's to say a lot more of them wear them or not? I have a feeling that this patch is just the tip of the iceberg on the actions of the guards. Not just those two.